Talk:Ahrar al-Sham

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Ahrar al-Sham or Ahrar ash-Sham?[edit]

Ahrar ash-Sham is phonetically correct version of the Arabic name. When al- precedes shin (ش) it is pronounced ash. Shouldn't we change the name of the page then? --Emesik (talk) 01:48, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It may well be a more accurate translation, but the world media almost universely refers to it as Ahrar al-Sham. It is also important to note that the group itself uses this spelling for their official website - www.ahraralsham.com Gazkthul (talk) 00:23, 29 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Emesik moved it anyway... Bataaf van Oranje (Prinsgezinde) (talk) 07:28, 14 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Revolution?[edit]

In the first sentence "Syrian Revolution" links to a disambiguation page. Which Syrian Revolution? If it is the current 'revolution' surely it should be referred to as "The Syrian Civil War", or something similar. 146.90.230.78 (talk) 16:59, 3 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sources[edit]

http://jihadology.net/2015/06/03/guest-post-ahrar-al-sham-spiritual-leader-the-idol-of-democracy-has-shattered/

http://jihadology.net/2014/12/09/guest-post-muhammad-al-amin-on-ahrar-al-shams-evolving-relationship-with-jabhat-al-nusrah-and-global-jihadism/

http://carnegieendowment.org/syriaincrisis/?fa=57201

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/meet-syrias-fake-moderates-13451?page=show


http://www.lawfareblog.com/statement-ahrar-al-sham-condolences-death-mullah-omar

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-syrian-islamist-group-ahrar-al-sham-mourns-taliban-leader-mullah-omar-2110291


21:26, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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Disentangle History and Notable Incidents sections[edit]

The history section starts out with the early history of Ahrar ash-Sham, but then continues with paragraphs about its members being islamists, a paragraph about how it fights, and then some lose sentences that could just as well be under the Notable Incidents header.

The Notable Incidents section starts out with a notable incident. After that it continues with paragraphs about Ahrar making different coalitions, and therefore it seems to continue the history section above.

A good example of the confusion is in the establishment of two joint operations rooms: On 26 April 2015, Ahrar ash-Sham, along with other major Aleppo based groups, established the Fatah Halab joint operations room. Is under the history section. On 21 October 2015, the Jund al Malahim operations room was created as an alliance of Ajnad al Sham, Ahrar ash-Sham and Al-Nusra in Rif Dimashq. Is under the notable incidents section.

It seems logical to restructure the history section to a section about the origin, current position and military capabilities of Ahrar. The Notable incidents section can then be renamed to History, with small details moved to that section.Grieg2 (talk) 09:37, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 14 May 2016[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Number 57 19:56, 25 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ahrar ash-Sham → Ahrar al-Sham – Ahrar al-Sham was the original title of the article (before June 2013). In this section above, the editor that moved it proposed a move arguing that Ahrar ash-Sham is the "correct" pronunciation in Arabic. Another editor correctly posed that the name "Ahrar al-Sham" is nevertheless almost universally used as its English name, but the page had already been moved. Wikipedia is currently pretty much the only one calling it Ahrar ash-Sham. Requesting a speedy move back to Ahrar al-Sham per WP:COMMONNAME. Bataaf van Oranje (Prinsgezinde) (talk) 07:37, 14 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support for reasons stated above Gazkthul (talk) 09:42, 18 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Name of the movement[edit]

Per the folowwing reference internal I will change the name in english to Islamic Ahrar Al-Sham Movement . I also want to notify that is due to a request I recieved personally from the chief translation responsible in the media office of the movement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Helmy1453 (talk • contribs) 17:16, 21 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned references in Ahrar al-Sham[edit]

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Ahrar al-Sham's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "auto":

  • From Tahrir al-Sham: Joscelyn, Thomas (January 28, 2017). "Al Qaeda and allies announce 'new entity' in Syria". Long War Journal. Foundation for Defense of Democracies.
  • From Jabhat Fateh al-Sham: "Who's who in the Nusra Front?". al-Araby. 15 December 2014. Retrieved 2 June 2015.
  • From Al-Qaeda: United States of America v. Usama bin Laden. Wikisource. Retrieved June 10, 2016.
  • From Jaysh al-Islam: Lund, Aron. "Islamist Mergers in Syria: Ahrar al-Sham Swallows Suqour al-Sham". Retrieved 14 June 2016.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 08:18, 31 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Wahhabism?[edit]

Wahhabism was included in the infobox as part of their ideology. The supporting reference given, with no page numbers or quotations, was the 37-page GHANMI, Elyès; PUNZET, Agnieszka (11 June 2013). "The involvement of Salafism/Wahhabism in the support and supply of arms to rebel groups around the world" (PDF). European Parliament.

I see nothing in this document that says Ahrar al-Sham is Wahhabi. It says they are Salafi. Here is what it says about Ahrar al-Sham:

  • "At the beginning of 2012 two prominent Salafi armed groups emerged: Jabhat al-Nusra (the Support Front) and Kata’ib Ahrar al-Sham (the Freemen of Syria Battalions) both of which embraced the language of jihad and called for an Islamic state based on Salafi principles". p. 9.
  • p. 16 has a paragraph solely about Kata’ib Ahrar al-Sham. The paragraph starts "The Ahrar al-Sham brigades are the most prominent Salafi group ..." and never mentions Wahhabism.
  • The only other mentions of Ahrar al-Sham in the whole document are brief mentions about military matters, not ideology, on pp. 14 and 15.

If I am overlooking anything, please give quotations and page nos. thanks. Nurg (talk) 09:21, 21 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Since the document states that Ahrar al-Sham has "embraced the language of jihad and called for an Islamic state based on Salafi principles", would it be more accurate to describe its ideology as Salafist jihadism, a subcategory of Salafism? Editor abcdef (talk) 11:01, 21 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Not according to the last paragraph of the Ideology section, nor its source, which is Sam Heller's article about the address by Ali al-Omar in May 2016. By the way, I would like to see an English translation of that whole address by al-Omar. I have searched, but all I found was someone else looking for one too. I'd be interested if anyone found one. Nurg (talk) 08:41, 22 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned references in Ahrar al-Sham[edit]

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Ahrar al-Sham's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "aa6jan":

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 21:47, 22 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Stil exist ?[edit]

@Editor abcdef, David O. Johnson, LightandDark2000, EkoGraf, and NuclearWizard: like to al-Nusra (JFS) who has been dissolved after the merging into HTS, I think we should consider the same for Ahrar al-Sham because the Liberation Organization is not an operation room or a coalition, it is a new armed group. --Panam2014 (talk) 17:03, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say it's pretty reasonable to say that the JTS/SLF group has succeeded AAS. Nuke (talk) 17:30, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm inclined to agree. According to this link [1], Zinki no longer exists. It's logical that Ahrar no longer exists either. David O. Johnson (talk)
In the recent letter by rebel groups in eastern Ghouta to the UNSC, Ahrar al-Sham was listed as a signatory group, with no mention of the Syrian Liberation Front. Only AaS's main branch in the Idlib pocket was confirmed to have completely merged into the SLF. The status of AaS's smaller branches in Ghouta, northern Aleppo, and Daraa remain unclear. Editor abcdef (talk) 00:41, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Editor abcdef, David O. Johnson, LightandDark2000, EkoGraf, and NuclearWizard: but Zinki has been dissolved. We should add this. --Panam2014 (talk) 00:56, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Editor abcdef: Thanks for finding a source proving this. Nuke (talk) 02:52, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Yes, it looks like the groups have merged. Ahrar al-Sham and the Syrian Liberation Front articles need to be updated accordingly. The Syrian Liberation Front article in particular really needs expansion. LightandDark2000 (talk) 03:25, 24 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion[edit]

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