Talk:Al-Ghubayya al-Tahta

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Coordinates[edit]

The location given by the coordinates was about 600m away from where "Ghaba at Tahta" is shown on Mandate-era topological maps. I changed them to reflect the shown location. I also notice a ruin indicated at that position on modern maps (on the SE edge of Mishmar haEmeq). Zero^talk 05:58, 8 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As you can see Huldra, this concern was brought by Zero some six years ago. Either the coordinates are wrong or Khaledi. Also, The Israel Antiquities Authority's page on Mishmar HaEmek is also called al-ghubia al-tahta or something like that.--Bolter21 (talk to me) 00:01, 1 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

One way to quickly compare previous and current locations is to click on the coords, find the "Israel" panel, then select either the modern map or the 1940 map. For Al-Ghubayya al-Tahta you get this for 1940s and this for modern. You can see from the bumps in the road that the overlay is quite accurate and that the former location of Ghubayya al-Tahta is right beside the present location of Mishmar haEmeq. By contrast, Midrakh Oz is 2-3 km away. There is another source for confusion, though. Mishmar haEmeq was built on purchased land before 1948, while Midrakk Oz was built on expropriated land after 1948. Khalidi's meaning might be that Midrakk Oz sits on the former village lands of Al-Ghubayya al-Tahta; but I couldn't verify that when I looked at the 1948 cadastral map. So Khalidi could be simply mistaken. I wish I had time to make more maps. Zero^talk 02:32, 1 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, but you cannot look at "closest too," only. Say, the location of Um Juni is clearly closer to Degania Bet, than Degania Alef. But when I tried to change that on commons, come editors protested. Of course there is a chance that Khalidi is wrong. I have found several mistakes in his 1992-book, I have listed the ones which I have found here. (Just last month I found one, see Talk:Al-Khisas, Gaza). But before I put this down as a Khalidi-mistake, I would like to see a map off the limits of village land, pre-1948. I do not have that (Does anyone?) And if we don´t, it look like WP:OR, Huldra (talk) 23:21, 1 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Huldra: You have two copies of it ;). In the Atlas (second part), map 256, and at the NLI map 16-22.1948. You can see village boundaries (in the NLI maps they are shown as a sequence of round dots) for Mishma Ha-Emek and El-Gaba et Tahta (they are close together but there is a village boundary running between them). However, the place where Midrak Oz now sits is in the next plot, just where the name of it, "El Mansi", is written in big letters. I don't know where the modern town boundaries are so perhaps there is an overlap, but I'm confident that the houses of Midrak Oz do not lie on the former lands of El-Gaba et Tahta. Zero^talk 13:01, 2 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I just dowloaded the Atlas (second part): I´ll study it. Khalidi did write (on p. 177) that Midrakh Oz was partly on Al-Mansi-land, so ok, yeah; it is possible that this is a Khalidi-mistake. But it looks as if Al-Ghubayya al-Tahta is in between Al-Mansi and Mishmar HaEmek? Huldra (talk) 22:47, 2 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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