Talk:Alaska political corruption probe/Archive 1

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Any Alaskans out there?

Guess not. Or maybe Ted Stevens has just clogged them tubes again. Or maybe the remaining Alaskan is busy making plans for another bridge. Actually, I came here to snidely question the notability of revelations of corruption among American politicians. Instead I guess I snidely made fun of your state. I apologize and promise I mean no harm. --Alcuin 01:32, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Hey we need attention up there I guess. The latest governor Mrukowski Agenda is to get the Bridge to the "Nowhere Land" of his family. One of today's suggestions is digging a 'tube.'

http://www.gov.state.ak.us/news.php?id=2669

NPOV issues

Although I am no Repuglican and hope these bastards get what is coming to them, this article has serious NPOV problems. Perhaps someone can clean it up a little while leaving it largely intact. Michaelh2001 17:58, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

This has SERIOUS POV issues. I've cleaned up some of the bias and flagged it for the Project Alaska crowd to work on. The text needs to be referenced. The neutrality of this article was almost nonexistent. Deirdre 22:27, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

page title

In Alaska, this group is almost exclusively known as and referred to as the Corrupt Bastards Club rather than "Caucus"; I therefore recommend that this page be moved. Any objections? Deirdre 23:26, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

The warrants listed both club and caucus and I selected caucus because it sounded more "legislative" or official and public. I don't think it will be hard to find if you move it so it really doesn't matter as far as I'm concerned.....jp

Really?

Doesn't this really belong on progressive or liberal blogs at present, instead of Wikipedia? It's narrow in scope, and judging from internet traffic, light in broad impact, and it is lacking in relevant details. How about seeing what happens before writing a page? It could turn into something named in retrospect, like Abscam or the Tennessee Waltz, or it could be nothing. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.207.206.226 (talk) 22:45, 4 May 2007 (UTC).


REALLY!

I think this does belong here. It is a source of information about an ongoing investigation of corruption that is a resource for all, not just one party or another.

Granted there is a reason why the political right would want this to remain in the Daily KOS, but this is in fact an action of our federal Government in response to shady dealings of some elected representatives. It is the effort of a team of 70 FBI investigators, hardly "nothing" as you call it.

Please help yourself to all the dirt you can find on Alaska's lefties, put it in front of a federal forum, and please bring the same upon them if you feel this is a partisan witch hunt. There are surely illegal things you should come up with, If you are tennacious and dedicated to it. It is there.

And in retrospect, I beleive it will be adequately called "Corrupt Bastard's Club."

Proposal to move/rename article to "Alaska political corruption scandal"

I propose that this article be moved/renamed from Corrupt Bastards Club to Alaska Legislature corruption scandal. Rationale: Although the rubrics "Corrupt Bastards Club" and "Corrupt Bastards Caucus" have come up in connection to this scandal, particularly after it first broke with the raids last September, those names have been pretty much incidental to the case. Most articles in the Alaska & national press have not mentioned CBC for quite awhile.

Nor does it seem from press accounts that the rubric CBC was truly anything more than a joke: there is no evidence that the indicted legislators (or those who may be indicted in the future) had created any kind of club, coalition, caucus, or cabal devoted to accepting VECO bribes. From that perspective the article title as a description of the scandal is misleading & fails NPOV. Alaska Legislature corruption scandal is descriptively more accurate & NPOV.

Alternatives might be "Alaska House corruption scandal" except that it seems likely that at least one of our esteemed state senators might be indicted soon; or "VECO bribery scandal" except that it's not clear how closely the charges against Tom Anderson are related to VECO, some of the issues regarding Ben Stevens are about fisheries rather than the oil patch. Another alternative, currently used by the Anchorage Daily News as an overall title for coverage of the scandal, is Alaska political corruption (or Alaska political corruption scandal), which might actually be best in the event this case leads to information on politicians outside the Alaska Legislature.

Naturally, a discussion of the CBC hats/jokes/etc. should be discussed in a moved/renamed article, but as part of the overall discussion of the scandal, rather than as the "official Wikipedia" name for the scandal.

Is there consensus for this proposal? Thank you. --Yksin 17:24, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Update. I now advocate for move/rename to Alaska political corruption scandal. --Yksin 18:34, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
There will be many more corruption scandals in Alaska that deal with the Legislature. Has the FBI made a name for this investigation? Perhaps wati to see what they call it. Either way this will always be associated with the moniker "Corrupt Bastards," and perhaps is the best name for it for now. (unsigned comment left at 21:45, 9 May 2007 by 64.24.209.239).
Undoubtedly true there will be more scandals. As it is, today while working on this & related articles, it became clear that scandals (plural) is more accurately descriptive even than scandal. But the problem with "Corrupt Bastards" remains: it is inaccurate, NPOV, & gives the false impression that the individuals involved in these scandals were all in it together. Now granted that conspiracies were involved -- they're in the court paperwork -- but those conspiracies were between Allen & Smith & individual legislators, not between the legislators. (Or in Tom Anderson's case, between him & "Lobbyist A.")
Furthermore, there seem to be three different sets of corruption (at least) under investigation here: (1) the Tom Anderson stuff involving private corrections; (2) the fisheries stuff with Ben Stevens; & (3) the VECO bribery & illegal campaign contribution stuff. Of these, only the last is related to the "Corrupt Bastards Society," as the CBC joke came directly out of reaction to the Lori Backes opinion piece about VECO campaign contributions, having nothing to do with fisheries or the private corrections industry. Yet all these corruption investigations/scandals belong in the same article because they all involve federal investigations of Alaska elected officials by those Public Integrity guys in Washington, DC.
Meanwhile, as more articles are written about principals in these cases (I know, because I'm working on writing them), it becomes ever more awkward to do "See also" links to "Corrupt Bastards Society" for all the reasons above: it's NPOV, innaccurate, & in many cases just does not apply. Whereas "Alaska political corruption scandals" or "Alaska political corruption investigations" is POV, accurate, & descriptive. --Yksin 07:55, 10 May 2007 (UTC).

CBC

Oil has had an undue influence in the stae politics for several administrations. Current Party Lines seem guaranteed to fail to correct it. Quid-pro-quo, It is the status quo.

The courts call quid-pro-quo corruption. Of course to the oil company that gives $6 mil they want to call it free speech but the courts have ruled on this.


PC or not, this will always link up to a search of 'Corrupt Bastards'. They wear the hat so well. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.24.211.140 (talk) 11:43, 12 May 2007 (UTC).

External links from article

I'm moving most of the external links from the article to here for now until they can be evaluated for relevance & applicability to the article. Per WP:NOT#LINK, "Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links..." and this collection of links was beginning to look like someone's "Mere collection of external links..." in violation of that policy. We're not really here to include every news article possibly about the scandal; but it seems useful to keep the list for now because many of these might be relevant sources for improving the article. -- Yksin 18:16, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

The links below have been evaluate & reorganized, & more complete citation info provided for most of them, for use with this article. Some of the links aren't really relevant to this article except indirectly; other articles that are relevant tend to repeat info in other articles, so not all of them may be used. However, I am working to improve this article, & a lot of these links are very relevant & will be used -- the structure of this list will change as they get used. --Yksin 00:20, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Links

Relevant & used in article

Relevant but not cited in article (at least not so far)

Not directly relevant to this article

boating accidents?

I have a little trouble seeing how the boating incidents, which appear to be absolutely coincidental, are relevant to this article. ~~ tonei 22:55, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

  • Its notable since these were heavily reported events that happened shortly after news broke of the investigation. Michaelh2001 (talk) 05:32, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Table of notable figures

I've added to the tble of notable figures in this case to include all of the suspects involved and whether or not they have been indicted. Don Olson, according to recent reports, seems to have been tempted by bribes but ultimately turned them down. That could change due to the nature of this case, and since his office was raided I feel he should not be automatically left out. I have left out Frank Murkowski, since besides his former chief of staff being indicted, Murkowski has not been publicly implicated. I hope this helps clarify things... Michaelh2001 (talk) 05:30, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

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