From Talk:Ali/Archive1[edit]

Picture[edit]

Do NOT put picture please.

Why?--Zereshk 20:11, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Anon editor didn't explain, or sign, but I'm guessing that he/she feels that it's wrong to put up images as if they're to be worshipped. Is this another difference between Sunni and Shi'a? I know that many Muslims feel that ANY realistic art is wrong, but I didn't think that there were sectarian differences in the matter. Zora 11:40, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'll butt in here again, if I may. I suspect that there might be some Shi'as as well that may feel uncomfortable with images of Ali or Mohammad or what have you. But the majority of the Shi'a have no problem with it. In fact, you can find typical paintings of Ali (like the one on our page) posing with his sword Zolfaqar while sitting next to a Lion, in almost every traditional home in Iran and Pakistan (if Shi'a). The Sunni however hold a different view on the matter. As you may have noticed and wondered, Mohammad, in fact has no tomb or shrine like we see for Ali or Husayn. He has that green domed mosque named after him in Medina. But that's not where he's buried. His grave is almost anonymous, whereas in Iran, you run into a highly adorned truquoise domed "Imam-zadeh" (son/daugther or grandson/granddaghter of one of the 12 Imams) almost every other mile. Sectarian differences I'd say. But then again, cultural aspects have an influence too.--Zereshk 13:03, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Is Islam iconoclastic, and is there hadith that forbids or discourages pictures of imams? I have seen paintings of Hussein, though not in the context of an article. --Jake Land 19:26, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I recommend moving the picture down to the legacy section since... that is a modern rendition and definitely reflects how he is seen recently... I think it's fine to have the image... and I'm not sure we need to go to the extent not to offend as they did on Bahá'u'lláh... I think it's more unencyclopedic to not show an image because of some objections... gren 21:26, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I would like to say that I feel the comment about "almost every traditional home in Iran and Pakistan (if Shi'a)" has a painting of Ali in it is an incorrect generalization. I have never seen a painting or representation of Ali in any of the shia Pakistani or shia Iranian homes I've visited. I think it would be advisable to remove the picture or atleast move it doen to the legacy section. I don't think though that it should be included as many people feel it is disrespectful to show representations of Ali which may be historically inaccurate.--Zee 16:06 15 Jul 2005

Some people believe that showing pictures of Islamic figures is not right. So the picture might be offending those peoples and therefore it should be removed. For the same reason the holy Prophet Mohammad and Imam Ali were not shown by an actor in the film: 'The Message'. And like Zee said i my self have never seen a picture of any Imam or Prophet in a Shia home (except the ones in which the face is covered or light ('noor') is coming out of the face). --Khalid! 19:35, 21 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Cut[edit]

The picture[edit]

An anon editor keeps removing an Iranian picture of Ali; Zereshk keeps adding it.

The anon editor doesn't explain why he removes it; possibly he feels that picturing Islamic figures is shirk, and possibly he dislikes the Iranian origin. Or it could be that he sees no value in a picture that is purely imaginary.

I don't care whether the picture is there or not. I'm staying out of this one. Zora 02:29, 17 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Cut[edit]

The Picture Is Wrong[edit]

It's not the real pic of Caliph Ali Ibn Abi Talib all Muslims knew that why the Editor puted it then.

Cut[edit]

The captions to the picture[edit]

Who put that crap about Shirk up there in Ali's picture caption?

Shirk comes opposite to Tawheed. Nobody prays to Ali or the painting of Ali, be they in Iran or Pakistan. This is one of the misconceptions about The Shia that I tried to address in the article Academic Bias against The Shia (which is about to be censored, as is the norm). Shias and Sunnis alike pray to the one God. Ali's picture is not God's replacement (na'udhu billah), as the caption implies. Therefore the comment about the painting being shirk is BS, because the imaging of Ali is merely analogous to keeping a picture of a loved one, like your mother or father. I suppose Sunnis do keep family photos? That caption needs to be changed.--Zereshk 21:21, 12 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

the picture should remain because because it is only for the memory of Ali. Many of us have portraits of our great great grandparents, why? to remember them. This is no different. take care, sincerely - anonymous

From Talk:Ali/Archive4[edit]

painting[edit]

As this is an article about a person, are there any pictures or paintings of Ali which we can add to this article?--Sefringle 17:51, 1 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There's just imaginary portrait and I disagree to add such portrait. It's not verifiable. --Sa.vakilian(t-c) 04:42, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Some Shi'ites view it to be haram to imagine the physical features of Ali (as) in any way, shape or form... Ahmad Husseini 15:27, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is not censored--Sefringle 04:10, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but Wikipedia isn't a battleground either, and isn't the place to show material that is offensive to others, especially when that comes to race, or religion. Ahmad Husseini 18:20, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

See Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/FAQ#Religion--Sefringle 04:34, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What we are discussing isn't a criticism of our religion, it is something that people regard as good but we regard as bad. That is like me saying (hypothetically speaking) let's put a video of Holocaust victims in the process of being burned in the crematories. It would offend some people. But if you said, There are videos of holocaust victims being burned, that wouldn't offend some one. Putting a picture is Haram, please understand, and don't take this argument any further. Ahmad Husseini 02:20, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is that there isn't any real portrait. There are numerous imaginary ones and I disagree on using fabricated materials in historic articles.--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 04:38, 22 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Come on, ya Ahmad, this is ridiculous. If a group of religious Shias complain, we might want to take it down, but as this haven't happened, there's no need for these "pre-emptive" strikes. I vote for putting the painting (on the right here) back in. Ali isn't Muhammad, there isn't a consensus on whether he can be showed or not. Still, if some group of Christians chose to be against the depiction of Jesus, would we remove all images of him from Wikipedia? Vakilian's argument about "fabricated images" can be used about Jesus as well, by the way. Funkynusayri 17:03, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Awright, I put the picture in and made clear that it is only an interpretation, and not an actual photograpghy of Ali. If someone wants to remove it, give a reason. There are old paintings of Muhammad too o the Muhammad page, by the way.Funkynusayri 06:23, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This portrait is imaginary and contradict with historical narrations. In addition I can upload other imaginary images which contradict this one. --Sa.vakilian(t-c) 03:59, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Irrelevant, people don't know how Jesus looked like, yet there are pictures of him all over the place. Furthermore, It was made pretty clear that it is in fact not an actual picture of how Ali looked like in reality, so I don't see the problem. It's odd how there seem to be more people complaining about this one picture of Ali than about the many pictures of Muhammad on his page.Funkynusayri 10:21, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As-Salam 3laykom wa rahmatol'llah...[edit]

Brothers, I would like to address the "desendants" of our blessed Prophet section. The Term Sayyid is applyed in Lebanon to many families like Moussawi, Nasrallah, these families are relatives of the Blessed Prophet, not just el-Husseinis, Ahmad Husseini 03:06, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(Off Topic) In accordance to the Shi'ite council of Lebanon, it is haram to show Imam Ali(a.s)'s face, does anyone here follow this principle? Have you guys all ready discussed this before inserting the picture of the Imam near the bottom? Ahmad Husseini 03:51, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please remove the picture/painting. Its against the spirit of islam to keep pictures of the Imams. Please remove the pic. minnie55 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Minnie55 (talk • contribs) 11:43, 30 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]