Talk:American Jobs Plan

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Merger proposal[edit]

The result of the proposal is: consensus to keep the articles separate.
A count of noses shows 3 editors in Support, 6 who Oppose, and one who posted an unclear !vote (leaning toward Support). I am discounting one of the three Support !votes for providing no reasoning. Supporters cited, by name or in spirit, the Overlap and Context criteria of WP:MERGEREASON. Some supporters suggested that governmental activity in the near future will increase the overlap in the articles to the point of synonymity.
Opponents cited differences between the plan and the act and reliable sources that discuss the two separately. Opponents also noted the unknowable nature of future government activity and some other possible avenues for the legislation.
Supporters made their appeals to policy and guideline more explicit, but most !voters provided rationales relevant to a WP:MERGE decision. The number of Oppose !votes was not overcome by the weight of the Support !votes policy appeals, and there is therefore consensus against a merge. This close should not be used as a reason to oppose future merge discussions if the act ends up including the substantive entirety of the plan. Firefangledfeathers (talk) 02:02, 28 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I propose to merge INVEST in America Act into American Jobs Plan. I think that the content in the former article can easily be explained in the context of the latter, and the latter article is of a reasonable size that the merging of the former will not cause any problems as far as article size is concerned. Furthermore, the Senate is amending the House passed bill as a vehicle for the bipartisan deal, so it makes little sense to have two pages of the same bill. Phillip Samuel (talk) 22:21, 5 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose AJP seems to be more about the proposed plan throughout Biden's presidency. The INVEST in America Act is one of the actual bills to set it moving. I don't see a rush to merge the articles regardless of amendments. – The Grid (talk) 04:45, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That is incorrect; you are referring to the Build Back Better Plan, not the American Jobs Plan. The BBP Plan is the proposed plan/vision that Biden has for his term. His plan is to realised through 3 bills: the American Rescue Plan (the passed budget reconciliation bill), the American Jobs Plan (currently the INVEST in America Act under the Senate process), and the American Families Plan (another planned reconciliation bill). The AJP is to be done through the INVEST in America Act.[1] It is therefore redundant to have two short Wikipedia pages on exactly the same bill, and your proposed reason otherwise does not fall under WP:NOTMERGE. Phillip Samuel (talk) 09:15, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Then what is the Protecting the Right to Organize Act described in the article? Even though this discussion isn't for cleaning up articles, I could try to flesh out the stub for the bill's article. I guess a merge is alright but probably tag the redirect as "r with possibilities". It's a transportation central policy bill similar to MAP-21. (Also, my initial comment was not a !vote.) – The Grid (talk) 13:45, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The original plan was to include provision of the PRO Act, however due to congressional negotiations, that was scrapped in the INVEST in America Act and the Senate amendment negotiations. Under Wikipedia:OVERLAP, the two Wikipedia pages are covering the same bill and should be murged to incorporate the page of the bill with its negotiation process. Phillip Samuel (talk) 20:56, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Confused I don't understand what's going on here, but it's clear that INVEST in America Act and Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act are both referring to the same thing, H.R. 3684, and should be merged, and probably posthaste. Whether that's the same as AJP is a harder question, and the more I read the more confused I get, which leads me to suspect the merger is proper. jhawkinson (talk) 16:24, 10 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It looks like INVEST in America Act got moved to Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act with the merge template. I think an outsider can procedure close the INVEST in America Act merge request. – The Grid (talk) 16:59, 10 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The AJP, and Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act (I just realised it was renamed) are referring to the same bill. H.R. 3684. jhawkinson Therefore this merger proposal should be closed and the merger should proceed. Phillip Samuel (talk) 17:03, 10 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Just noting that has been done since your comment. – The Grid (talk) 12:56, 3 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Soft oppose for now. I don't know a lot on the subject, but seems like the AJP is Biden's vision and the Infrastructure Bill is what has come out of the Legislature. UserTwoSix (talk) 21:01, 10 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Quote of separateness: "the House will not approve the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act until a larger Progressive $3.5 trillion reconciliation bill is passed[4] that relates to the more Progressive aspects of the American Jobs Plan" from INVEST in America Act#top. UserTwoSix (talk) 21:03, 10 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The more progressive aspects of the American Jobs Plan are in the American Families Plan, which is to be the reconciliation bill currently being written. The House will not pass the AJP until the AFP is passed. The American Jobs Plan is to be the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act which passed the Senate after negotiations [2], and the American Families Plan is to be the reconciliation bill.[3]. The AJP and IIJA are referring to the same bill, so under WP:MERGE they are to be merged. Phillip Samuel (talk) 16:43, 11 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Please note of WP:CRYSTAL. – The Grid (talk) 02:25, 12 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Chandan Kanti Paul (talk) 11:08, 14 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. According to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, the House will not vote on the bill until the Senate passes a separate and currently unfinished $3.5 trillion reconciliation bill. Sounds like we might end up with at least 2 bills related to the American Jobs Plan. AJP can be the parent article for all efforts towards Biden's goal, and the individual bills can be child articles. –Novem Linguae (talk) 01:59, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: As pointed out by UserTwoSix, the American Jobs Plan is Biden's vision—a plan from his proposed agenda—while the infrastructure bill is a bill that was crafted by Congress (and which differs substantially in terms of policy from the AJP). Jaydavidmartin (talk) 21:25, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: Even though the topic of this page is infrastructure acts of Congress and those of Parliament generally have their own pages that cover more about the relevant acts (such as bill sponsors, legislative history, etc.) while also containing information of the composition of the act from basic and general details to the separate times of enactment & codification and any future changes by future acts. These are not things that you find on pages such as the American Jobs Plan. There is a reason as to why there is a separate page on the European Communities Act 1972 (UK), which literally has subsections on the first, second, and third readings of the bill, instead of it being a part United Kingdom membership of the European Union. ~ Fluffy89502 (talk) 07:29, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Bills and acts also do not have cover one topic. There is nothing that stops Congress from passing a bill that legalizes cannabis while also implementing relevant legislation to implement a treaty that has to do with wildlife parks in that same bill, for example. ~ Fluffy89502 (talk) 07:34, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "'Tiger of the House' claws his way through infrastructure talks". POLITICO. Retrieved 2021-08-06.
  2. ^ https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/3684?r=1&s=1
  3. ^ https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/14/democrats-3point5-trillion-budget-package-funds-family-programs-clean-energy-medicare-expansion.html
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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