Talk:Andre Agassi/Archive 2

Any Double Nationality/Citenship????

Any Double Country Like Pete Sampras A Greek/U.S???? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.53.56.78 (talk) 21:34, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Citation farm

This comment ....does not require six external links to support it, two citations for this are plenty, wikipedia is not a link station, the weaker citations need removal.

On October 27, 2009, Agassi was reported to have used crystal meth in 1997, which will be in his autobiography to be released on November 9th, and is titled "Open: An Autobiography. Off2riorob (talk) 10:45, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Correct; and the sentence is poorly constructed in any case. Wikipedia is being a pain and timing out when I try to edit it myself, though. If it's of use to anyone there's a BBC Sport article about the matter here. I also think that this is likely to be a big enough deal worldwide that it should be mentioned in the lead, though I understand the reasons for not rushing into something like that. Loganberry (Talk) 12:45, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

A little rewrite and the two strongest citations is in order, I will do it later, I don't think it is a candidate for the lede, no conviction, seems strange releasing it now after all these years, to coincide with his book release. Off2riorob (talk) 13:42, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

The crystal meth story hass now been added to another location in the article, one section is enough, imo. Off2riorob (talk) 15:38, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

The crystal meth story is now only in the personal life section. And I agree it should not be in the lead. Just because used drugs during one year (in which is performed poorly) does not make it necessary for the lead. Angryapathy (talk) 15:47, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Meth use

Kitch has moved the meth story to 1994-1997, and greatly truncated the mention. While I do believe it needs to be reworded, I feel the story belongs in his personal life, and should be worded differently (again). Angryapathy (talk) 16:53, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

I agree, Kitchs edit is imo messy and poorly written, Angry, lets us write something here and get agreement and insert it. Off2riorob (talk) 16:57, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

I suggest: "Andre Agassi will be releasing an autobiography titled, "Open: An Autobiography." In it, Agassi admits to using and testing positive for Methamphetamine in 1997." I am not sure about adding the lying about someone "spiking" a drink, but it seems like it might warrant inclusion. Angryapathy (talk) 01:59, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Iranian-American

I realize that Andre Agassi was born in the United States, and his mother is American. However, his father is Iranian-born of Assyrian and Armenian descent. According to the following sources, Andre Agassi is considered as Iranian-American (though he has Assyrian and Armenian ancestry):

The National Iranian American Council (NIAC) lists Andre Agassi as an Iranian-American. You would think if Andre Agassi had a problem with this label, he would tell the Council to remove his photo.

Another article from National Iranian American Council (NIAC), that was also printed in the Huffington Post names Andre Agassi as an Iranian-American: "Most Americans recognize that the Iranian-American community has enriched America in the cultural sphere, contributed significantly to our economy (e-Bay's founder, Pierre Omidyar, is an Iranian American), in the public sphere with talented journalists like Amanpour, and even in sports - both Andre Agassi and Ali Farokhmanesh (the dead-eyed Northern Iowa basketball star behind last week's upset against Kansas in the NCAA tournament) are children of Iranian national sports heroes." CreativeSoul7981 (talk) 18:13, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Please see WP:MOSBIO. If you feel his notabiliy is due to hi ethnicity, please make that case and let others decide/comment. Thank you. --Threeafterthree (talk) 02:06, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

I have referenced his notability as an Iranian-American with evidence by an American writer who published in The Huffington Post. He is also listed as an Iranian-American by the National Iranian American Council. Aren't these referenced sources? You have removed them for no reason. Andre Agassi is mentioned as an Iranian-American sports figure in the same sentence that other Iranian-Americans such as Pierre Omidya and Ali Farokhmansh are mentioned. So, unless The Huffington Post is a made-up newspaper, and the National Iranian-American Council is not recognized by the United States, there is no reason for the removal of the information. Did you just ignore the above quotes? I'm adding the information back in. Others can way in, but I don't see my sources somehow violating Wikipedia policy. I should also mention that his relationship with his father, who is Iranian, is notable and holds a lot of notoriety (which is evidenced in his own biography: Open: An Autobiography. His father's background is mentioned, and how he was an athlete who represented Iran in the 1948 and 1952 Olympic Games. In his book, Agassi reveals how much he feared his father who constantly pushed him too hard. It was also reported by German newspaper Netzeitung on February 24, 2005 that Andre Agassi said, "I will also eventually visit Iran which has a special place in my heart." CreativeSoul7981 (talk) 02:49, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

Agassi's notability is due to his past occupation, not his ethnicity, thou interesting. --Threeafterthree (talk) 05:50, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

I don't understand your motives. There are a lot of other Iranian-Americans on Wikipedia that state "Iranian-American" in their articles. What is your bias with this page? And you're quite wrong. Andre Agassi is well-known in the United States for being Iranian-American. What exactly is the difference between Andre Agassi being recognized as an Iranian-American sports figure and Christiane Amanpour or Pierre Omidyar being recognized as Iranian-American. Pierre Omidyar is known for being the creator of eBay. Christiane Amanpour is known for her reporting. What on earth does that have to do with their ethnic background (that they are known for). This isn't like religion, where you have to prove someone is practicing or devout (or show that their religion has to do with their career and who they are ) in order to be included in their page. That is understandable. This, however, is a person's ethnicity. I have provided appropriate sources to back up these claims. I think it is only fair to get a third party opinion on this issue because I do not want to go back and forth with edit reverts. That would be unproductive. I will request mediation to see what Wikipedia administrators think. CreativeSoul7981 (talk) 07:43, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

Whether other articles are correct or incorrect I can't say... there are just too many to police. Christiane Amanpour was born in Iran so that can make a big difference right there plus her opening header says nothing about Iranian-American. Pierre Omidyar should be french-American since he was born in France. Where does it end? I have Polish, Austrian, and English in my heritage so am I a Polish-Austrian-English-American? It could really get crazy if every heritage is right up front. Andre Agassi is/was a great tennis player and that is where his notoriety comes from. Every event he entered lists him as American and that's the way it should be here, not Armenian/Assyrian/Iranian-American. Certainly it can mentioned that he is of Iranian, Armenian or Assyrian descent but that should be in the personal and family section of the article. Fyunck(click) (talk) 09:23, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

Well said Fyunck. That other bios might mention ethnicity in the lead correctly/incorrectly means little here. If a person is born in the US and has no other foreign citizenship/nationality, then is best not to mention ethnicity in the lead sentence, unless thier ethnicity is a main/strong reason for their notability. Of the 10,000s of bios out there, adding ethnicity to the lead sentence happens maybe .001% of the time correctly. Is this the case here? Consensus over the past few years is that it isn't. Can that change? Of course, but there should be a good case and consensus, which I haven't seen yet. Again, maybe more folks will chime in and help with their opinions. --Threeafterthree (talk) 15:51, 25 December 2010 (UTC)ps, as far as my "motives" go, it is to comply with MOSBIO. I have removed main different ethnicities from literally 1,000s of bios over the last 5 year, admittidely, mostly bios of American born nationals with no other foreign nationality. Maybe I am americancentric :)..anyways...--Threeafterthree (talk) 15:57, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

I didn't see anything on MOSBIO that indicated my edits were unconstructive or violated Wikipedia policy. The point I was making was that all of the people I mentioned, including Andre Agassi, are listed as Iranian-American and identify as such. Pierre Omidyar is an notable Iranian-American (several articles by newspapers and magazines identify his background as such). His page says that he is a French-born Iranian-American. True statement. Articles mentioning the contributions and success of Iranians or Iranian-Americans in the United States include Andre Agassi. I'd say that is notable. So, I am not sure what the problem is. He is Iranian-American. Are you a first or second generation American, Fyunck? Many Americans are German or English from generations back. Or their grandfather is Polish, etc. That is different. Pete Sampras is listed as a Greek-American. And his parents immigrated from Greece. Andre Agassi's father was an Olympic athlete who immigrated from Iran. What's the difference? That Andre Agassi's mother is American? Lots of half-Iranians are listed as Iranian-American, etc. I'm not trying to argue for the sake of arguing, but you guys don't seem to understand how big Andre Agassi is in the Iranian-American community. His father's influence is obviously notable, as he mentions their relationship in his own book, and discusses his family background. It is obviously important to Agassi himself. Also, why would he be mentioned on the National Iranian American Council list if he wasn't "notable" as an Iranian-American? Can you answer this question please? No ties to Iran? Does one have to have been to a country to "have ties"? Catherine Bell identifies as an Iranian-American or British-Iranian (she has said so herself). Her mother is Iranian, and she speaks Persian, too. However, she was born in England, and has never been to Iran. She has said she practices many Iranian traditions. Is she not considered Iranian-American? Yes, she is. Same with the other notable people I mentioned. Back in 2005, Andre Agassi has said in a German interview that Iran holds a special place in his heart, and that he was planning a visit to the country. Again, how is this not notable enough? The label Iranian-American doesn't somehow make him less American either. I would like a Wikipedia administrator's opinion on this or input from other experienced editors. No offense to either you or Threeafterthree. I just want clarity on the issue regarding this page in particular. I don't think anyone wants to get into an edit war. This can be resolved after the holidays. CreativeSoul7981 (talk) 19:54, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

Again, per WP:MOSBIO Ethnicity or sexuality should not generally be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability....Having pride in ones ethnicity is different from being relevant to one's notability. I have copy edited both Bell's and Sampras' bios accordingly since those were both pretty "stable" versions that were "changed" by IPs without explaination. I plan on going to category Iranian-Americans and looking at other bios and doing the same. I know one bio where I was "persuaded" to "accept" ethnicity in the first sentence was Alan Hovhaness. Also, if you look at Mexican-American MMA fighters, there has been great discussion as far as adding ethnicity to the lead, see Cain Velasquez for example. Anyways, yes, hopefully more folks will comment. --Threeafterthree (talk) 20:50, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

You mention that others and Andre Agassi are listed as Iranian-American and identified as such but 99% of the time that is not true. No papers or news agencies refer to him as I/A even remotely on a regular basis. For every mention of him being Iranian-American I'll bet there are a million of him being listed as American. I have no doubt that he is a big entity in the Iranian-American communities and that would be why his heritage is mentioned in his family life. And just because a place is held special means nothing... I hold Hong Kong special but I'm not a Chinese-American. The thing is, rarely should that be mentioned in any way in the opening bios of people unless it's the main thing they are noted for. That's exactly what the personal/family section is for. Now hypothetically, if the head of PASHA is notable enough for an article and her parents happen to be Iranian born, that might be a good candidate for listing her as Iranian/American right off the bat while talking even more about it in the personal section. Fyunck(click) (talk) 21:49, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

Iranian-American label should not be used in the lead of the article, as the subject was neither born in Iran, nor identifies strongly as an Iranian, unlike someone in a similar situation, like Aravane Rezaï, who has represented Iran at the international level and identifies strongly as an Iranian, despite being born and raised in France. That said, I do not see anything wrong with using the category Iranian-American alongside Armenian-American, and Assyrian-American categories for Andre Agassi, given that his father is an Iranian citizen and former Iranian Olympian, and Andre Agassi is also technically considered an Iranian citizen by Iranian law. Ethnicity has nothing to do with it. Kurdo777 (talk) 09:50, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Meeting Steffi Graff

We have the line "At the winners' ball, they met each other for the second time.", but according to his book; they canceled this dance...and the did NOT actually get to dance together. I wanted to ask her before removing it, since I have no source other than the book...but it is pretty authoritative. -- Mjquinn_id (talk) 23:39, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Records Grand Slam/Other needs work?

Unless I'm misunderstanding it, I think the years column in the table Records Grand Slam/Other needs some looking at. Surely the dates for 21 US opens played should be 1986-2006? And a bunch of records have dates 1990-05, when I'm pretty sure the tournaments contributing to those records started before 1990. And finally, shouldn't such date ranges read 1990-2005? 1990-05 implies 1990-1905. Jbening (talk) 03:51, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

{{done}} As far as I can tell, you are correct. That chart was even more a mess than you indicated and I tried to fix your concerns as well as other items. Thanks. Fyunck(click) (talk) 04:33, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Trivia

Is it necessary to have in this article such tell-tale?

Mike Agassi reportedly banged on the fences with a hammer during Andre's matches when his son lost a point, screamed at officials and was ejected more than once. --71.178.110.201 (talk) 21:51, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Personal and Family Life

Is it necessary to mention that the baby boy Andre Agassi's wife Steffi Graf gave birth four days after marriage was a result of being physically intimate even before marriage?... I am not very sure.....I feel it is... but I had a look at the article on Boris Becker which even mentions the place,and the date he had a physical relationship with model Angela Ermakova (1999...in a London Restauraunt..after a Wimbledon Tennis Match!!!)PACB (talk) 07:52, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

You are putting the horse behind the cart per my suggestion on Doniago's talk page. You added the info, it was deleted as either not needed or unsourced. It should stay deleted until talked about here. I don't think it should stay. This is unneeded and somewhat obvious information that imho detracts from the article. Just because something can be added doesn't mean it should be added. Fyunck(click) (talk) 09:06, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

why not Fyunck(click)?????...what about the article on Boris Becker then???? 62.150.96.218 (talk) 09:15, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes Fyunck(click) may I ask why if something can be added doesn't mean it should be added??? PACB (talk) 09:18, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't think you're fooling anyone with the anonymous IP. There are plenty of articles around here with more info and less info. If you can source Tom Cruise's shoe size that would be frivolous info and be reverted pretty quickly. And just because Boris Becker has stuff on his page (I haven't looked) doesn't mean it might not get removed tomorrow. If it's been there a long while and someone removes it because they don't like it, and that then gets reverted... it should go to talk before removing it again. Same here. You added it, it got reverted for no sourcing and being unneeded trivia. Before you add it again get people talking about it on the talk page and see how most editors feel about it. Maybe they'll agree with you if you make a strong case. Or maybe not. But edit warring is absolutely forbidden here and reverting the same thing more than 3x in 24hours is cause for being banned. The administration will also check PACB and 62.150.96.218 to see if you are one in the same person. It's easy for them to do. That will also get you banned. So I'd walk carefully with that. This can be a fun place to edit, but do it within the rules. Fyunck(click) (talk) 09:51, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

As the reverting editor I'll state for the record that I don't feel this information contributes constructively to the article. Doniago (talk) 12:49, 31 October 2011 (UTC)