Talk:Anna Lee Fisher/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Balon Greyjoy (talk · contribs) 12:46, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Looking forward to another review of the women from the 1978 astronaut class! Balon Greyjoy (talk) 12:46, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Copyright

• No concerns. Earwig report

Pictures

• The iconic photograph posted is a colorized version of the original; it should be the original black and white version.

  Y Great idea! I have uploaded it. I have grave doubts about the copyright status of the image, and the colourisation doesn't help. Uploaded a black and white image, with an appropriate WP:NFREE licence. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:31, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

• Thoughts on incorporating a later photograph of her in the infobox? I think it's much more appropriate to have the main picture of her be a more recent one, complete with astronaut wings and a mission patch. There's this official portrait from 2002 that I think would make more sense.

  The one I like is File:Anna L. Fisher Portrait.jpg. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:31, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

  I think that photo works better, but I still think it makes the most sense to have the most recent portrait in the infobox (similar to retired general officer's not having their lieutenant or major portraits displayed). Balon Greyjoy (talk) 12:18, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

  I changed the photo to the 2002 portrait. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 12:26, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

• I moved the iconic photo to the right side to stop it from indenting the first few lines in "Awards and Honors"

Prose

Lead

• No concerns.

Early life

• I linked "Army brat" to the US-specific page; not sure why there needs to be a separate page but I figured it was most appropriate with Sims being a US Army child.
• I reworded the sentence about Bill Fisher's astronaut goals to keep it from being repetitive with the line about Anna Fisher's dreams of flying in space.
• I removed the "considered San Pedro to be her hometown" line, since it's not clear if she still feels that way or that was just when she was graduating from high school.
• When did Bill and Anna get engaged? The article mentions them dating, and then jumps to them having a planned wedding.

  I don't know, but added that Bill was her fiancée at the time they heard that NASA was hiring. American customs continue to confuse me. Fisher took Bill's last name but kept her middle name. Whereas Shannon Lucid seems to have taken her maiden name as a new middle name. In an earlier generation Anna Sims would have become Mrs William Fisher. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:31, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Selection

• I added a little more description to the sentence about Bill paging Anna to make it clear why he did (I'm assuming I got it correct).

  By "paged" is meant that there was an announcement was to come and see him. It conveys some of the urgency. They submitted their applications close to the deadline. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:10, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Training

• "The instructors took pride in the progress of their trainees, and attempted to convey some of their own love of flying." It's not really clear what this means; are there amplifying details?

  Possibly. I'm not sure what the issue is. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:10, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

  It just comes across as matter-of-fact and doesn't really tie in to how it relates to Anna Fisher. Not a deal breaker, I just think if there was some evidence of an instructor going to great lengths (e.g. helping Fisher if she failed on a training flight), its context would be more clear.

• Did she often work in the Tampa hospital? I'm assuming the majority of her weekend shifts were in Houston.

  Tampa was part of the chain that she had previously worked for, so while Houston was much closer, I assumed the opposite. It is two and a half hours drive from the Cape, and she had access to aircraft. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:10, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

• "She was given Pete Conrad's old Apollo/Skylab space suit, which was too large." It's not clear what this means. Was she given Conrad's suit and, upon realizing it was too large, began making the small space suits? Or was she modifying Conrad's old suit. Also, I'm assuming it wasn't a flown spacesuit by Conrad? It reads like it was one of the suits he wore on Apollo 12 or Skylab 2.

  Y That's correct. Made this point clearer. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:19, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

  I don't have a source to the contrary, so this won't affect the GA passing, but I'm still confused why Fisher would be wearing a suit that Conrad had taken to the moon, as that would presumably be considered a historic artifact. Was she wearing Conrad's training suit that had been designed for one or both of the missions? Balon Greyjoy (talk) 12:33, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

• Rephrase the sentence about her being a Cape Crusader; it doesn't explain what one is until the end of the sentence. Maybe something like, "For STS-5 through STS-7, she was a "Cape Crusader", one of the astronauts supported vehicle integrated testing and payload testing at Kennedy Space Center (KSC), and was the lead Cape Crusader for the STS-7."

  Y Re-phrased. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:19, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

STS-51-A

• I think this should start off with her getting pregnant. I don't think her rationale needs to be explained, but if so, it can be shortened. My take is "Fisher became pregnant while working as a Cape Crusader, she did not want to delay having children due to uncertainty in when she would be assigned to a space flight." I don't think it needs to be explained in this article that conception is more difficult at an older age, especially since Fisher wasn't above a normal childbearing age.

  Y Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:19, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

• "she would have to fly on commercial jets, which was very inconvenient" It's not clear who this is inconvenient for? Did it affect her ability to do a job/was she taken off some work while she was pregnant due to flying commercially? I would remove that last phrase, or reword it to say its impact.

  Y Clarified that she found it inconvenient. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:19, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

• I combined the sentences about Fisher giving birth and returning to work. From context, it's clear who the "she" was, but I think it flows better. It also ended "was back at work on the Monday" I assumed there was a "next" (or something like it) missing.'
• "Fisher was nominated for Mother of the Year" Who presented this award? Was it some major institution (e.g. Time Magazine Mother of the Year)? I can't find it from the source, but I don't think it needs to be mentioned if it's not some notable award.

  It appears below. Removed. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:19, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

  Guessing this is the same one mentioned in the last paragraph of the section? Still not really clear who is presenting the award, as it just seems like it's a nonprofit named The Father's Day/Mother's Day Council.

  Y Correct. Added. The award seemed to carry a lot of publicity, and was somewhat ground breaking at the time because they were giving the award to a woman who was leaving her child behind to go on a dangerous mission. She got nothing for later taking a leave of absence to raise them. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:19, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

• As far as I can tell from Kristin's Wikipedia page, her name is spelled "Kristin;" I replaced the "Kristen" spellings.

• Thanks for that. The divorce from Bill comes a bit out of the blue, but neither of them is talking about it. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:19, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Leave of absence

• I would change the sentence order to start with Fisher becoming pregnant and giving birth in 1989, then turning in to her taking a leave of absence to raise her daughters. It seems a little out of order, as it mentions her taking a break to care for her family when only one child has been mentioned, and then introduces the second daughter, born the year her leave of absence began.

  It is the correct chronological order; she took the break before Kara was born. I was afraid that if changed it as you suggest people might infer that she took leave after Kara was born. This is one of those instances where the story makes more sense in an order different from the way it actually happened. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:19, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Return

• Did Fisher return to NASA in 1995? That's the end date listed on her leave of absence description, but I think there should be a month/year that is given for when she returned to the astronaut office.

  Y Yes. Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:19, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

• "inputs regarding procedures and training and worked" What does "and worked" mean here?

  Y deleted phrase. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:19, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

• "in the development of the display for the Orion project" I'm assuming this is for the computer display? That should be added to clarify that it's not the display in the context of an exhibit or spacecraft aesthetics.

  Y Added a bit. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:19, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Iconic photograph

• Is there a secondary that provides some commentary on this photo being frequently posted on social media? The tumblr link doesn't bring anything up when I click on it, the ffffound link is just her photo, and then it's a link to a series of Reddit posts about it (and it's not like reposting on Reddit is unique to this). I don't think linked to these user-generated posts can be considered reliable on their own.

  They can be considered reliable for documenting the use of the image on the platforms. But we don't trust or use anything they say. In particular, the article refutes claims made on those platforms. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:19, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

  I deleted the reference to Tumblr as the reference link didn't include the Fisher photograph. I'm still a little unsure of how this should be included without a secondary source commenting on the widespread distribution of this photo, but not a dealbreaker. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 12:26, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

• There's a lot of backstory for confusion on the date and publication history. At least it's in the footnotes, but I don't think it needs to be included in this article.

  I already cut it back, removing Wikipedia-related material that I felt more properly belongs on the talk page, and moved it from the body into footnotes. Because others implicitly want the material included, and it is properly sourced, you need to develop consensus for its removal on the talk page. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:19, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

  Not a dealbreaker for me, but I'll create a separate talk page section for the removal of the footnotes. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 12:26, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Final comments

@Hawkeye7: Made a few final comments, but passing this article and looking forward (presumably) to seeing it at FAC. Nice work! Balon Greyjoy (talk) 12:40, 8 September 2022 (UTC)