Talk:Anussati

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7 Recollections?[edit]

What's the basis for this article's mentioning "7 Recollections"? [FWIW, I also posted a query about this to the blog of the WP editor who originated mention of this set of recollections.] Thanks for any citation, education and help! Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 12:59, 24 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Here's the original text (from the article's very beginning) that mentions the "Seven Recollections":
Anussati
One of the Seven Recollections of Buddhism. They are in traditional order: Recollection of the Buddha, Recollection of the Dhamma, Recollection of the Sangha, Recollection of Generosity, Recollection of Virtue, Recollection of Deva, Recollection of Peace.
Generally used as devotional practices. For a more comprehensive treatment of the subject go to: [1]
The external link is no longer valid — or at least I have not been able to get it to work on two different machines.
I'm placing this text here so I can more readily proceed with developing the other enumerations of recollections for which I have ready access to citations. If at some point someone is able to provide a citation for the "Seven Recollecions" please let's re-insert this text (or a similar facsimile!) into the article. I hope that this removal of prior text does not inconvenience anyone. Thanks for any assistance! With metta, Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 17:56, 24 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I would like to acknowledge that the thoughtful and generous User:Angulimalo responded to me recently via e-mail regarding the above. As appropriate, I will try to incorporate his knowledge, experience and wisdom in the near future. In essence, Angulimalo pointed out that three of the last four so-called Ten Recollections are technically not anussati (recollection) practices per se but are in fact sati (mindfulness) practices. After double checking Pali references et al., I'll attempt to integrate this observation either directly in the article's body or in an end note. (And, of course, if someone wishes to address this sooner than I do, please do!) Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 13:23, 26 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Four recollections[edit]

Today an anon user (from Bayside, Queens using a Queens College IP address — and thus I'm assuming that same Bayside, Queens anon user with whom I previously discussed anussati material here in August 2007) added the following text:

The Four Recollections include the above three [i.e., recollection of the Triple Gem] with the addition of recollection of one's ethics or "sila". These four together are known as the "Dhamma Adassa"-- or mirror of the Dhamma, and is frequently mentioned throughout the early canon. To have these four components means one has stream entry.

This text was added under a misformed (3 "=" signs before, 2 "=" signs after) level-3 header named "Four Recollections." I suspect that it is due to the misformed header that this material was (mis)identified as being "unconstructive," the added text was reverted, and a user warning (uw-huggle1) was left on the anon's talk page. (I'll add a link to this talk page here below the anon's talk page's warning to better contextualize the edit shortly.)

Recognizing that the content was in earnest, I was tempted to simply re-add the reverted text (with kudos to the anon and checking in with the extremely well-intentioned and diligent reverter) with a correctly formed header. But, I've looked into the above-identified newly added text's main claim and have not been able to satisfactorily substantiate it. So I'm leaving it reverted until the following concerns can be addressed.

Concerns:

  1. The above text states that the "mirror of Dhamma" (dhammādāsa) is "frequently mentioned throughout the early canon." I assume "early canon" refers to the Pali tipitaka. I did a search[2] for the Pali word for mirror (ādās – leaving off the last letter to allow for various inflections) and after a limited review of the search results, it appeared that the notion of "mirror of Dhamma" (seemingly always inflected as dhammādāsa* ??) could be found in four canonical texts: the Mahaparinibbana Sutta (DN 16); SN 55.8, which is essentially an excerpt from DN 16; and, the two suttas following SN 55.8 which are essentially minor variations on SN 55.8. So, unless I've missed other instances (which is a definite possibility), it appears that this term is basically from one sutta (DN 16 -- admittedly one of the most "important") which is then excerpted (SN 55.8) with two variations (SN 55.9, SN 55.10). Thus, unless a significant number of additional suttas can be identified, I'm thinking "frequently mentioned throughout the early canon" is an overstatement. (FWIW, the actual compound term dhammādāsa can be found in the Theragatha [e.g., Thag. 171, 395] and Therigatha[3], but the context is not the same as above; e.g., Norman's trans. of Thag. 395: "Taking the doctrine as a mirror for knowledge and insight, I considered this body, empty inside and out." Similarly, the third-to-last-line of MN 115 states that that sutta can be entitled "The Mirror of the Dhamma" [dhammādāso...] but that sutta deals with dhatu, ayatana, paticca-samuppada, etc., not faith in the Triple Gem and one's own virtue.)
  2. There's nothing explicit in the above-identified discourses to indicate that these four qualities are recollections (anussati) or to be recollected — which is the implicit basis for the inclusion of material into this article. For instance, here's a translation of the relevent text from DN 16 (trans. Vajira & Story, 1998, retrieved from "Access to Insight" at http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.16.1-6.vaji.html):
[The Buddha says:] "And what, Ananda, is that teaching called the Mirror of Dhamma, possessing which the noble disciple may thus declare of himself?
"In this case, Ananda, the noble disciple possesses unwavering faith [Pali: aveccappasādena samannāgato] in the Buddha thus: 'The Blessed One is an Arahant, the Fully Enlightened One, perfect in knowledge and conduct, the Happy One, the knower of the world, the paramount trainer of beings, the teacher of gods and men, the Enlightened One, the Blessed One.'
"He possesses unwavering faith in the Dhamma thus: 'Well propounded by the Blessed One is the Dhamma, evident, timeless, inviting investigation, leading to emancipation, to be comprehended by the wise, each for himself.'
"He possesses unwavering faith in the Blessed One's Order of Disciples thus: 'Well faring is the Blessed One's Order of Disciples, righteously, wisely, and dutifully: that is to say, the four pairs of men, the eight classes of persons. The Blessed One's Order of Disciples is worthy of honor, of hospitality, of offerings, of veneration — the supreme field for meritorious deeds in the world.'
"And he possesses virtues that are dear to the Noble Ones, complete and perfect, spotless and pure, which are liberating, praised by the wise, uninfluenced (by worldly concerns), and favorable to concentration of mind.
"This, Ananda, is the teaching called the Mirror of the Dhamma, whereby the noble disciple may thus know of himself: 'There is no more rebirth for me in hell, nor as an animal or ghost, nor in any realm of woe. A stream-enterer am I, safe from falling into the states of misery, assured am I and bound for Enlightenment.'"

My reading of this (as well as of Walshe's DN translation) is that these are attainments (unwavering faith and morality), not recollections. (As such, these can also be found as an elaboration of the five faculties' [indriya] first factor, "faith" [saddhā], in SN 48.8 and AN V.15.)

Admittedly, the first concern above is a matter of wordsmithing and/or better sutta identificaion. The second concern though I believe is significant: these four endeavors/attainments need to be shown to be actual recollections (anussati) unto themselves by some reliable source.

I hope this makes sense and welcome corrections/discussion, Larry Rosenfeld (talk) 02:58, 2 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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