Talk:Appaloosa

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Featured articleAppaloosa is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Main Page trophyThis article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on October 5, 2012.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
February 12, 2008Good article nomineeListed
May 27, 2008Peer reviewReviewed
December 28, 2010Peer reviewReviewed
May 30, 2011Featured article candidatePromoted
Current status: Featured article

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One...[edit]

It's really bad form to call someone a "bad editor". This is a featured article - it should use high quality sources - not just "sufficiently reliable". Per this "about me" page from OED, it doesn't appear that the guy is a recognized expert in the etomological field - so he probably doesn't even meet the WP:RS requirement. The origins of the word are actually in the history section with much better sources already - so please gain consensus that the addition meets the high quality requirement for a featured article. Ealdgyth (talk) 17:06, 6 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Well, Ealdgyth, I have to say that it made me smile a little to see one of our absolutely best editors called "bad" for making a good edit. The derivation of the word is surely not as clear-cut or as simple as the edit-warring editor seems to believe, but perhaps not as straightforward as our article suggests either. Specifically, the OED (the dictionary of reference for the kind of English I speak) gives it as "... Opelousa, place-name in Louisiana, or ... Palouse River, Idaho, U.S.A.". I don't know what Webster dictionary is online here (it looks pretty infantile), but it gives "origin unknown"; my small Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary gives "... probably from Palouse". We should also probably mention that the word dates from no earlier than 1920. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 19:00, 7 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
If you think that it's good editing to commit wholesale removal of valid, mainstream content simply because one doesn't like the entirely reasonable source citation, instead of adding some tag for improvement, then you're no judge of who is a good editor. This is a bad habit that originates with Wikilawyering to censor content that an editor doesn't like even though it's true. The actual standard for Wikipedia is not wholesale removal unless content is clearly false or irrelevant. As noted above, there's nothing in the etymology I added that's even new to the article, it's just a properly-headlined etymology section to make finding it easier. That relative newbies have normalized wikilawyering is one of the worst things ever to happen to Wikipedia. — Kaz (talk) 19:29, 7 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Kaz, this is not reliably “valid” and absolutely not “mainstream.” And putting an etymology section first is undue weight when we are talking about an animal. The word origins are properly placed in the history section, as the context matters. (And dude, You’ve only edited about 15 months longer than I havej. Montanabw(talk) 04:42, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The origins of the word “Appaloosa” being derived from the Palouse people and geographic area is undisputed, except apparently by whatever fool thinks Louisiana or any part of Choctaw country is anywhere close to the Idaho/Washington region. Occasionally, I have seen other theories put out there for other words with origins in the western United States. But this one is... pure nonsense. I would be quite curious where the OED sourced their information. I do wonder if it’s worth looking into the word “Palouse,” as it was not the people’s own name for themselves, like the Sioux/Lakota issue, the popular name was actually derived from some other source entirely. But that is a different rabbit hole. Montanabw(talk) 04:10, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

As a follow up, the most reliable source for the breed name is that of the breed registry that first used the name “Appaloosa”, formed in 1938. The ApHc unequivocally states, “English-speakers called these horses Palouse horses, or some derivation thereof, after the Palouse River that ran through what was once Nez Perce lands.” People can certainly discuss the etymology of “Palouse” in some article other than this one, but I hope this settles the matter. “A Palouse horse” or “a ‘palousey horse’ became...”Appaloosa.” Montanabw(talk) 04:39, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Assuming all of that is correct, it only proves my central point, which is that removing the entire Etymology section was bad editing, the correct course of action would be to fix it. As usual, improving the article does not mean removing, wholesale, parts that need to be improved. That bad habit, as I said, originates with editors of bad motivation, who didn't want George Bush's drug charges in an article, or Clinton's sexual assault, or whatever. That relative newcomers have gotten the false impression this is the normal and proper way to edit the site is a degredation of editing standards. — Kaz (talk) 22:24, 10 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Kaz, you are criticizing an editor who is an admin with over a decade of experience here. Plus she was on the team that made this a featured article. Your etymology section might be useful for the Palouse article, as to the origins of that word, but not here. The origin of the name is explained in the article, and the Appaloosa Horse Club is the definitive source on the history of their decision to use the “Appaloosa” moniker as opposed to “Palousey” or “Palouse horse” or whatever other options were once under consideration. To the extent that the OED is cautious, that’s their job, but even they know better than to put a Choctaw origin to a Pacific Northwest name. Montanabw(talk) 20:01, 21 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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