Talk:Arab folk dances

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Dominated by orientalist paintings[edit]

Ermm, could we have some photos, or other more authentic images, instead of just orientalist fantasies? FunkMonk (talk) 01:48, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, but I need some time. Regards--Sarah Canbel (talk) 13:39, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No rush, it just seemed conspicuous. FunkMonk (talk) 10:21, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The photos look much better (seems you even took many of them yourself?). The infobox image still seems irksome; it is the eroticised fantasy of one German Hermann Michalowski[1], not an actual Arab woman dancing in 1901. FunkMonk (talk) 06:04, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I removed it, I agree with you, make the infobox image empty or look for an expressive image of Arab dance.

Yes, actually, I like going to the Arab festivals.--Sarah Canbel (talk) 08:08, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sure a good photo can be found then! FunkMonk (talk) 09:22, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"Arab" in "Arab dance"[edit]

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved.

Why is this page called Arab Dance when it should be called North African and Middle Eastern dances? The super majority of all these dances have nothing to do with Arab Bedouin tribes.

1-This page is stealing every single Egyptian Folklore heritage and claiming it to 22 countries. Clear appropriation.

2-North Africans (Egyptians, Moroccans, Algerians...) are not ethnically Arabs/Bedouins so calling their Folk dances by Arab dance is clear culture appropriation and exclusion to Copts, Berbers and North African countries cultural right to have their National Folk dances named after their people and home. Marina Towadros (talk) 03:23, 26 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Arabs are more than just the bedouins of Saudi Arabia. Compare Arab world and also the Arab League whose membership includes Egypt, Morocco and Algeria. More generally, Wikipedia follows what reliable published sources report. If any of the content in the article is mislabeled and not actually about Arab dance but, say, Coptic or Berber dance, you're welcome to point out those specific issues and we can see whether the sources agree and, if necessary, remove or split off what doesn't belong here. Huon (talk) 03:51, 26 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

When the article doesn't even mention the country of the Folklore, and is replacing each Egyptian National Folklore and Egyptian Dancers with the word Arab this is clear Culture Appropriation. Arab is not a country, a National Folklore should have its country mentioned. Marina Towadros (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 04:43, 26 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia reports what is verifiable in reliable sources on a subject. If the sources use the term "Arab", Wikipedia must as well. Wikipedia is not a place to right great wrongs. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 04:50, 26 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The sources clearly mentions it as Egyptian Traditional Folkore and the book name is Culture and Costumes of Egypt, while the page owner not even mentioning the country. This is Egyptian Folklore.^[1]

Egyptian Baldi Taksim^[2]

Marina Towadros (talk) 06:01, 26 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Egyptian culture is part of Arab culture.

According to the Constitution of Egypt Article 1: The Arab Republic of Egypt is a sovereign state. Egypt is part of the Arab nation and accomplishments its integration and unity. Islam is the religion of the state and Arabic is its official language.

Either for the sources clearly mentions it as Egyptian Traditional Folkore (no one denies that!), there are also many sources that say belly dance is a traditional Arabic dance (because it is an Egyptian dance!!). Try to say that Egypt is not an Arab country or the Egyptian culture that has been the basis of Arab culture for hundreds of years, especially the Egyptian cinema that invaded the entire Arab world. etc. so this is a personal opinion. For example, if you want Dabke, there are sources that mentions is a Palestinian 1, Lebanese 2 and Syrian or Jordanian, but in general is a Levantine because it is a regional dance, Belly dancing is also called a Middle Eastern. Any person or thing comes from a country, region or continent bearing its name. I mean anyone from Asia say to him Asian. Jerusalem is a Middle Eastern city, France is a European country etc etc... In short, this article includes all dances in the Arab world and Egypt is part of it!.--Sarah Canbel (talk) 09:33, 26 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Asante, Molefi K. (2002). Culture and Customs of Egypt. Greenwood Publishing Group. ISBN 9780313317408.
^ "Egyptian Baladi and the Baladi Taksim". www.shemsdance.com. Retrieved 2017-10-10.

It is really nice that you know this, why aren't such things written in the page? The page literally changed every single Egyptian Folklore and claimed it to 20+ countries. You managed to tag the Levant (Lebanon, Syria..) in Debke but not even tagging Egypt in an Egyptian Folklore which is the Shamadan or Baldi...etc. Why wiping the identity of the people of the folklore? It is me who first noticed the claiming of every single National Egyptian Folklore though all the sources literally say Egyptian Folklore, while you totally wiped the name Egypt. Why??. It's like removing Spain from the Flamenco and simply saying European Dance. How would it feel if i claimed the National Folklore of Lebanon with out even mentioning Lebanon or the Levant? This is highly offensive.

Thank You, Marina Towadros (talk) 17:24, 26 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Because when a certain thing or practice belongs to an area, we don't list every single subdivision of that area. Egypt is (self-identified as) part of the Arab world, therefore when something is both in Egypt and in the surrounding Arab region, we use "Arab" to refer to the surrounding area, not "Arab, including Egypt" or etc. Also, see Egyptian folk dance. Again, Wikipedia is not a place to right great wrongs or to distribute the truth, it's an encyclopedia. If you see something that you think is a problem like this, the correct response is not to accuse the writers of appropriation or to try to delete it, but to fix it, which I see you have now been doing, which is great. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 02:19, 27 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, i am doing that. Thank you so much. Marina Towadros (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:22, 27 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Same axe being ground at belly dance; we could use more eyes on it. Pinkbeast (talk) 10:21, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion[edit]

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ABellydancerWithTraditionalEgyptianSaidiOutfit.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 23:08, 3 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion[edit]

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[1] Asante, Molefi K. (2002). Culture and Customs of Egypt. Greenwood Publishing Group. ISBN 9780313317408.

[2] "Egyptian Baladi and the Baladi Taksim". www.shemsdance.com. Retrieved 2017-10-10.

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