Talk:Assyrian people/Statistics

Statistics on Assyrians

The purpose of this page is to put together all official datas about the numbers of Assyrians in the countries where they live.

Ethnic/Ancestry censuses

• Australia -> transferred to Assyrian diaspora
• Canada -> transferred to Assyrian diaspora
• New Zealand -> transferred to Assyrian diaspora

USA

The last census 6 years ago, revealed 82,355. [1] This number is at minimum tripled by now, since the mass immigration of Iraq to the States. fixed USA

Russia / Soviet Union

-> transferred to Assyrian diaspora

Armenia

-> transferred to Assyrian diaspora

Georgia

-> transferred to Assyrian diaspora

Turkey

1. 10,000 [2]

Sweden

In the latter part of the 1970s, about 12,000 Syrian Orthodox Assyrians from Lebanon, Turkey and Syria immigrated to Sweden. Swedish Minister for Development Co-operation, Migration and Asylum Policy, Migration 2002, June 2002

Linguistic censuses

• Iran - all sources say less than 20,000 but this was already the numbers given around 1970, and many left after 1979, including many in America and Australia, so I wonder if there are more left there than a few thousands. There was a language census in 1956, about 70,000 persons were then listed as Aramaic-speakers (Statistics on Iran, 1960).
• Iraq
  • 1957 census ("Chaldean and Assyrian, most ordinarily spoken language in the household") 61,053
  • 1965 census (idem) 23,942 (or 23,567) "Chaldean" + 37,974 (37,635) or "Assyrian" (UN 1968, quoted in Kloss & McConnelle)

Religious censuses

• Lebanon (1932)
  • December 31, 1944 (in Hourani 1947,p.63): 4,984 Syriac Catholics, 3,753 Syriac Orthodox, 1,330 Chaldeans
• Syria (before 1960)
• Iraq
  • Mosul Vilayet 1923 (British administration statistics quoted in Yacoub 1984): 62,225 Christians (7.9% of the population), of whom 57,425 (13,3%) in the Mosul sanjak, 4,100 (3,9%) in Erbil sanjak, 600 in Kirkuk sanjak and 100 in Suleymania sanjak
  • "According to the last national census in 1987, Iraq had some 1.4 million Christians" [3] - indeed, the 1987 was the last census. Also confirmed by other source "Iraq had 1.4 million Christians according to the country's most recent census, which was conducted in 1987." [4]
  • Current

* CIA: "Christian or other - 3% of 26,000,000" - the other is Yezidi, which is I would say .5%, so lets say 2.5% are Christians = 650,000

* CNN on 6-19-2004, Christiana Amanpour reported that the Iraqi Christian population is 3%, or 700,000.

• Jordan

Church statistics

• Annuario Pontifico 1981
  • (for the whole world): 86,537 Syriac Catholics and 348,317 Chaldean Catholics
  • Iraq: 351,000 Catholics (all denominations)
  • Iran: 19,500 Catholics (all denominations)

Discussion

Lets keep in mind Pylambert, that the majority of Middle Eastern and other countries simply to not keep track/do census. So, I suggest we track down as many reasonable sources out their for each country, and then we agree on a figure. Chaldean 19:22, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

They don't now, but I've got datas for the 1943 Syrian census for instance, have a look at my (French) article (statistics are understandable even if in French): fr:Djézireh. I've got plenty of similar datas initially collected for my (never ended) master's thesis on "Ethnopolitical structures in post-Ottoman countries - The case of the Bilad al-Sham". I'll also keep on adding bibliographical data on the various articles, it'll help students e.g. --Pylambert 19:32, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Ugg!! I can't seem to find the last Syrian census. Its driving me crazy. The 1943 census weren't the last ones, were they? Chaldean 19:55, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I fear it was the last one with religious communities statistics (see the table at Assyrians in Syria), I remember there was another around 1960 but it did not mention subcategories among Christians. I'll have to check for sure. Subcategories were suppressed also on the ID-cards and for the allocation of seats in the Parliament in 1949 by (enlightened) dictator Adib Shishakli in order to promote a non-sectarian Syrian state. --Pylambert 20:06, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Some things to note:

• "Syrian authorities estimate there are about 300,000 Iraqis in the country." (of course we know a good number of those are Christians. I personally have 12 members of my relatives who fled Iraq for Syria since the war.) "Of the 4,000 Iraqi families officially registered as refugees with the agency in Damascus, more than half are Christians." [5]
• New Iraqi Census Officially Recognizes ChaldoAssyrians [6]

Chaldean 20:40, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

• Discussion about Lebanon

Well, we know their are no real census almost ever been done. So I suggest making a list of as many different sources possible here to see what we can come up with:

4,500 [7]

Pylambert, we need for right now to at least list what we have in the Assyrian people page. What do you suggest for Iraq? The majority of news reports put the number between 700,000 and 850,000. I think 750,000 is pretty fair. What do you think? Chaldean 23:16, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

We still only have official figures only for Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Armenia and Georgia. I'm adding some more now. --Pylambert 23:45, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Fixed USA. And you dont consider Georgia and Armenian numbers legit? The year that the website is providing does reflect the last time both nations had census. Sweden is really bothering me. I found the their offical site, but I can't find anything on Assyrian population. Their is a good sizable population in Greece as well, but I checked their census, and they do not do ethnic census.Chaldean 01:23, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Simo Parpola

My suggestion would be to use Simo Parpola (the worlds leading Assyriologist) as the basis for the factual data in this article. The comments about Assyrians calling themselves Armaye are completely false. Simply put, early medeival Assyrian (aka Syriac) writers who identified with Aramean and Aramaic did so based on the Septuigent alone. There is no historical or archaeological backing for these claims. Also they used Aramaya more specifically as a linguistic term, as Syriac is used by many today. They are adjectives, not nominal forms. They do not denote a people. Also I find it amusing no one is contesting the Chaldean, Aramean, Syriac pages for their validity. I suggest those who have a problem go there and add to such articles.

Keep in mind, articles on the Kurds do not separate them into Gorani, Sorani, Behdinani, Zaza, and Kurmanji speaking people. They are Kurds ethnically, and sub-language groups, tribes, clans, and religious affiliation to not specify cultural or ethnic identity.

Finally the term Assyrian Chaldean Syriac people is also an erronious term created by members of some Assyrian political parties in order to increase their votes during the Iraqi elections. It is not a cultural identification, nor an ethnic one. I suppose you could equate it to an Irish person saying "We are the Irish Protestant Wiccan people" (ie an ethnic identification and 2 religious ones for a name? It seems absurd. Therefore this compund name grants the Assyrian title as a religious one.

Keep in mind there are many people who wish to eliminate the Assyrian name from the modern world, and some who contest the direct connection of modern and ancient Assyrians. I suggest again you refer to articles by Simo Parpola, Efrem Yildiz, and others when writing such comments. here is the link www.aina.org/articles/assyrianidentity.pdf