Talk:August 2023 mid-south U.S. floods

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Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Bruxton (talk) 15:35, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Created by Tails Wx (talk). Self-nominated at 05:36, 10 August 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/August 2023 Mid-South U.S. floods; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

  • Hi Tails Wx (talk), review follows: article created 4 August and exceeds minimum length; article is well written and cited inline throughout to what look to be reliable sources for the information cited; I didn't pick up any issues with overly close paraphrasing form the sources; hook facts are both stated in the article and check out to sources cited, preference probably for ALT0 as the more interesting; a QPQ has been carried out. Looks fine to me - Dumelow (talk) 07:09, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 22 August 2023[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved, to August 2023 mid-south U.S. floods. (closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal (talk) 11:30, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

August 2023 Mid-South U.S. floods → August 2023 Southeastern United States floods – Mid-South isn’t a very helpful geographic term, also Missouri could arguably be considered the Southeast. 97.125.147.175 (talk) 22:56, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note that Missouri is not in the Southern United States and is not in the Eastern United States, so it should basically not be considered to be in the Southeastern United States. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 02:26, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Or August 2023 Upland South floods, since Wikipedia considers "Upland South" unambiguous. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 02:31, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 16 September 2023[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) Edward-Woodrow • talk 14:14, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

August 2023 mid-south U.S. floods → August 2023 Mid-South U.S. floods – As noted on the recent failed move request of Mid-South (region), it is a proper noun (and is consistently capitalized as with that title) and this article should be capitalized consistent with that proper noun. The previous move was based on incorrect reasoning and failure to understand that it is not a mere description. oknazevad (talk) 00:49, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Unsure. MOS:HYPHENCAPS seems to argue against the capitalization of "south" here. "South" by itself is not a proper noun here; it just part of a hyphenated modifier of "U.S." The noun is "U.S.", not "south". This is different from the arguable use of "South" as a geographic proper noun in "Mid-South (region)", since that title does not include "U.S." —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 01:14, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    No, "Mid-South United States" is a total noun phrase, just like Northeast United States or Midwest United States, both of which are capitalized as proper nouns even mid-sentence, even when short forms are used. The names of regions of the United States are proper nouns, not merely adjectives, even if they aren't particularly creative names, and should be capitalized. oknazevad (talk) 22:37, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    But look at book stats. Lowercase it's common enough to appear, but uppercase it's not. So yes, a "total noun phrase", but not a proper name. Dicklyon (talk) 00:20, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    My remark is not about the whole phrase; it is focused on the letter that follows the hyphen, based on MOS:HYPHENCAPS. Northeast United States and Midwest United States do not contain hyphens. And in the article title about the region, there is no "U.S." —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 04:04, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose and nom's premise that "it is a proper noun (and is consistently capitalized as with that title)" is false. It may be more commonly capped, but certainly not consistently, and there's no evidence of it being a proper name of anything, in spite of that thinly-attended failed RM. Dicklyon (talk) 20:22, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    The Mid-South region is well attested as a proper name. That's why the RM went nowhere, because the evidence was overwhelming and complete. Just because you don't like that real world English usage doesn't always follow consistent rules spent mean you can ignore reality. oknazevad (talk) 22:32, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    It's not even clear what you're saying is well attested, or where we'd find support for that notion. A region is not a name. Dicklyon (talk) 00:22, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    The use of "mid-south United States" is also well attested. See these books for example: [1], [2], [3], [4]. Writing as "mid South" and "Mid-south" are also not uncommon. Dicklyon (talk) 00:25, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Oknazevad has identified (perhaps inadvertently) that the key phrase to consider is mid-south United States and not just mid-south, since the title uses the former, albeit abbreviating United States. An ngram search (per Dicklyon) does not support the proposal. Noting that the ngram corpus is a subset of Google books, a search here and the examples provided by DL show inconsistent capitalisation not sufficient to support the proposed capitalisation with reference to WP:NCCAPS and MOS:CAPS. Furthermore, MOS:HYPHENCAPS tells us not to cap after a hyphen - another reason to reject the proposal. While it may or may not be appropriate to capitalise Mid-South as a stand-alone term, it does not follow that mid-south should be capitalized when it acts as a modifier of United States. The nom's argument fails in this respect. It fails in respect to the evidence presented and the criteria set by WP:P&G. This discussion does, however, suggest that it might be more appropriate to title the article Mid-South (region) as Mid-south United States. Cinderella157 (talk) 11:56, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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