Talk:Australia First Party/Archive 1

Cleaned up external links

All of the external links for various branches go to near identical pages. I think the National Office one shall suffice. If people want to find out more they can easily click through to the other pages from there, but Wikipedia is not an advertising service for political groups. I've also removed the nonsense about "smears" - as said above, it's completely NPOV. Some users seem intent on completely sanitising any mentions of neo-Nazism from this page. The nazi leanings of Australia First seem to be a fairly major element of the group and should not be disregarded. Drett 23:11, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Comparison of AFP branch sites shows substantial differences, with particular regard to the national, Sydney, and Melbourne sites - these have been left in to enable quick access to full information about the AFP.

I've also removed the nonsense about "neo-nazism", it's completely POV, and obviously part of a political smear campaign, as was also used with regards to One Nation (another patriotic/nationalist group). It is a fiction to say that AFP has nazi leanings, and such propaganda POV should be disregarded.

As an aside, one wonders why Drett etc have not edited the Australian Labor Party article to say it has communist leanings; indeed, it is interesting to note that the ALP article on Wikipedia makes no mention, even in the DLP split paragraph, of the heavy communist influence within the ALP, which still continues to this day. RedDawn 11:20, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

RedDawn, I take it that political science isn't your forte. Let your comments here stand as a monument to your sheer stupidity. Patriotism? I'm sorry but racism costumed as patriotism isn't patriotism. Misappropriating our flag as a symbol of hate isn't patriotic. Constitutional monarchism isn't patriotic. And insulting the legacy of Australian servicemen and women who struggled against Nazism every time you perpetuate certain myths about ethnic minorities is hardly patriotic either. If you honestly think Australia is a communist regime under the ALP then you're as delusional as you are dumb. The ALP may have its origins in socialism (not communism) but it still espouses the principles of market capitalism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.18.34.5 (talk) 02:02, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Propaganda smears against AFP

As noted in previous discussion (above), the AFP is not a neo-nazi organisation, and does not fit the criteria.

I don't know enough about this topic to evaluate the claim. But we are not making it in the article, so no problem.--Stephan Schulz 11:42, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

On this subject, it is worth noting the research of Peter Charles Henderson in his BA (Hons) thesis, A History of the Australian Extreme Right Since 1950, who said:

“There is also a tendency to label groups with titles like 'neo-Nazi' as a form of censure even when the group has no links or sympathies toward Nazism. This name calling has originated not only on the left but on the right where terms like 'femi-Nazi', reputedly coined by US talk back radio personality Rush Limbaugh to describe feminists, has gained currency”. http://library.uws.edu.au/adt-NUWS/public/adt-NUWS20030924.134813/index.html (p.8) (see also pages 28-29) It should be noted that Henderson is a leftist (p.31) (all these pages are in the Introduction, 01Front.pdf). RedDawn 11:35, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

How is that relevant? Yes, the term Nazi is misused for propaganda purposes. Nothing unexpected.--Stephan Schulz 11:42, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, propaganda lies are not unexpected, but they are combattable. Hence it is proper not to allow continuance of propaganda lies in Wikipedia. RedDawn 12:02, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

The article does not say the AFP is neo-Nazi, it says it has been accused of being neo-Nazi, and cites a references for that fact. Adam 12:56, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I say this particular is Neo-Nazi and its members should be given a reality check. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.185.219.47 (talk) 01:08:05, August 19, 2007 (UTC)

Jim Saleam is a former neo-Nazi https://www.smh.com.au/news/national/no-apology-for-white-australia-policy/2008/01/11/1199988590134.html It's not a smear or hyperbole if it is a well documented and irrefutable fact. Heres a link to an article that has several photos of Saleam in Nazi uniform consorting with several known Nazi figures. Bacondrum (talk) 00:03, 21 May 2018 (UTC) https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/newslocal/west/lindsay-scramble-over-minor-and-independent-preferences/news-story/de2e222edec1926bde0e2fd6b276686e

Video footage of Saleam speaking at a Nazi meeting, Swastika's are clearly visible behind the speaker. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiI12gY_Imc The evidence is beyond compelling. Saleam was definitely a Nazi and at the very least obviously still supports and associates with Nazi's .

Mentioning of neo-nazi accusations in opening para

In the interests of giving a full picture of the Australia First Party, it seems right that their neo-nazi leanings should be mentioned in the opening paragraph, so as not to give the reader a false impression about the party. Their links to National Action, the BNP, Volksfront and the New Zealand National Front are well documented in reliable sources (the media). It's interesting that their current webmaster, Andrew Guild (aka RedDawn) was the Victorian chairman of the violent neo-Nazi group National Action. RedDawn was also the One Nation candidate for the seat of Deakin. It would be good if he could put his bias aside for the purposes of creating a NPOV wiki article. Drett 15:26, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Most enlightening, thanks. Adam 21:35, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

How strange. Drett seems to think he has a crystal ball that gives info on the identity of Wikipedia contributors. Can he provide proof of his claims? No? I didn't think so.

Also, Drett deliberately seeks to give a false impression of AFP by alleging "neo-nazi leanings" (this is a common tactic with people from FightDemBack [sic]). He also tries the same tactic with National Action, which was not neo-nazi either.

To label nationalist groups as "neo-nazi" is as silly as labelling democratic socialist groups as "communist", but there are those who seek to deliberately mislead people in this regard. It is a standard propaganda tactic used by globalists to demonise their nationalist opposition by calling them neo-nazis, even when they know that it is not true.

It is quite obvious that Australian nationalists are not neo-nazis. Nations who believed in pro-White racial integrity (racial seperateness or racial protectionism) fought the Nazis in WW2 (Australia, the USA, South Africa; possibly Canada and the UK), but would be slandered nowadays by globalists as "nazi", which is plainly ridiculous. Those pro-White nations were democracies and were anti-Nazi.

In fact, it was the globalists of that era (pro-communists) who advocated not going to war against the Nazis (until the Nazis invaded the USSR in 1941). It is the multiculturalists-globalists of today who are the closest thing we have to nazism (for instance, see http://www.angelfire.com/planet/panca/nazi_intro.htm).

Pro-White countries waged war against Nazi Germany for two main reasons: 1) The issue of national integrity, re. Germany's espansionism (esp. culminating with Poland). 2) The issue of democracy. Australia, the USA, South Africa, etc. were all democracies, and were opposed to the authoritarianism of Nazi Germany.

That is why White Australia fought the Nazis, it was a war of democracy vs anti-democracy. And Australian nationalists like the AFP follow in the same vein of promoting democracy, such as by advocating Citizens' Initiated Referenda.

Thus, it is demonstrated that Drett's wish to slander AFP with a false neo-nazi tag is simply an issue of him/FDB wanting to use Wikipedia as a propaganda tool to further globalist ideology. RedDawn 06:11, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for all that irrelevant rhetoric. Do you deny that you are Andrew Guild, former Victorian chairman of National Action, as alleged? There is no rule that contributors have to disclose their real names here, but it would obviously be interesting to know that we have a real live neo-Nazi among us. Adam 06:31, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

If you actually read the info provided, then you would know that it is factual, and not irrelevant - except that the Truth is often irrelevant to many globalist propagandists. I have no current intention to confirm or deny any name that Drett puts forward. Maybe I should do so after he provides us with "proof" of his claim - that would be most interesting. I note that you also use the "neo-nazi" smear. Am I to assume by this that you are another globalist propagandist? Am I supposed to return the favour by labelling you a Communist? Or, assuming you are a Multiculturalist, should I be labelling you a Multicultural Nazi instead? Please advise, as I am unsure of the ettiquette in name-calling slanging matches on Wikipedia. RedDawn 07:33, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

• Either you are Andrew Guild or you aren't. If you aren't, you should say so and then it will be up to Drett to prove that you are, if he wishes.
• "Neo-Nazi" is not a "smear" when it is applied to neo-Nazis, just as "communist" is not a smear when it is applied to communists.
• Turning the argument back on me won't wash. I use my real name here and my political views are stated at my user page. Adam 07:44, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, either I am or I am not. However, it is Drett who is crystal-ball gazing, it is Drett who asserts he knows who I am, so it is up to him to provide his "proof" (Come on, where is it?). I am not making any claim, he is. As I said, "I have no current intention to confirm or deny any name that Drett puts forward. Maybe I should do so after he provides us with "proof" of his claim - that would be most interesting." RedDawn 08:11, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

You and Andrew Guild have the same IP. Since he is Australia First's webmaster and you are trying to whitewash the Australia First article I made the gigantic cognitive leap that you might be the same person rather than you being somebody who sneaks into Andrew's house at night under the cover of darkness and tries to legitimise political groups of which he is a member. Drett 21:46, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Two very simple points to make here: 1) I use a very common ISP, along with I would guess 100s of 1000s of people (including quite a few people I know of), so strike one against you there. I'm pretty sure that 100s of 1000s of people aren't coming into my house to use my computer (well, apart from some friends on occasion), but I'll stay up tonight and keep a watch out for them just in case. 2) I just had a look at the history page, and the only ISPs listed are for unregistered contributors, so strike two against you. Since I mentioned the anti-nationalist propaganda being put on Wikipedia to a few people, there's no surprise about people wanting to get rid of that globalist propaganda. RedDawn 09:13, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

No, I wrote that you have the exact same IP address. You have the same ISP, obviously, but that's not what I was saying. There is no 'globalist anti-nationalist propaganda' being put on this page. Only factual information about a neo-nazi group. My dedication to maintaining NPOV is shown by my generously not describing them as a gang. Drett 19:08, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

It is about time we band RedDawn because he is a AFP member and Drett because he is communist. Oh yes we should add a link to the Blog of reds and Futurama Fans because it has a lot to say about Australia First. Here is it's link:- [1] --PETER THE GREAT 13:16, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

I'd say it's about time that you were banned as a serial vandal who makes personal attacks, Peter. Drett 20:57, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

He shouldn't be banned. He is man fighting the communists , nazis and people like you. Viva Peter and Viva AFP.So Dreet are you in any way involved with Fight Dem Back?--DePeRe 10:12, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

This is not a forum for childish political abuse. If you don't have anything useful to contribute to this article, go away. Adam 10:53, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

It seems fairly obvious to me that DePeRe is just a sockpuppet of Peter. Drett 15:01, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Well it seems to me that Drett and FightDemBack are both sockpuppets of Fight Dem Back. So they should both be band. --DePeRe 04:32, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, DePeRe (talk · contribs) was obviously a Peterwats (talk · contribs) sock. I've blocked the account. -Will Beback · † · 05:17, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Peterwats (talk · contribs) is back as Fighter for the masses (talk · contribs) and is continuing to make unfounded allegations and personal attacks.

Neo-Nazis

It's strange that neo-Nazis are always so wimpy about admitting that they are neo-Nazis, like the person who keeps anonymously deleting relevant material from this article. You'd think big bad Nazis would be brave enough to say "Yes I'm a neo-Nazi, get over it," instead of this chickenshit deletionism. You'll never get the Sudetenland back this way, boys. Adam 16:59, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh, that's only in Australia. Over here in Europe they're proud of it. ;) —Nightstallion (?) 09:43, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Has it occurred to you that this group may not be neo-Nazi?101.98.210.38 (talk) 04:51, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Some thing must be done about FDB and Nationalist or Nazi suck pupets

It seems to me that there are people from Fight Dem Back , Australia First Party , PYl etc that are comeing on this this AFP article and editing it to their interests. These people are more likely to be Darrin Hodges , Darp , etc. I think that Anrachists ,Communists , Trots , Nazi and Nationalists should be stop from editing this article. Oh yes , it would be interesting to see what these people will do to this comment. It is a well known fact that some Wikipedia managers and administraters are linked to political ideas or groups. I could even give you a long list of these people.