Talk:Bács-Bodrog County

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Former countries, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of defunct states and territories (and their subdivisions). If you would like to participate, please join the project.Former countriesWikipedia:WikiProject Former countriesTemplate:WikiProject Former countriesformer country articles
	This article is supported by the Austria-Hungary task force.

Serbia Low‑importance

	Serbia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Serbia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Serbia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SerbiaWikipedia:WikiProject SerbiaTemplate:WikiProject SerbiaSerbia articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Hungary

	Hungary portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hungary, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Hungary on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HungaryWikipedia:WikiProject HungaryTemplate:WikiProject HungaryHungary articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Demographics[edit]

The demographics section has been expanded by an anonymous user with some rather negative remarks about Hungarian rule in the area. If I compare this to what's written in the Bačka article (which is about the same area), there are striking differences. For instance, "Bács-Bodrog" says that Serbs were expelled in the 18th century, whereas "Bačka" says that the area, largely depopulated because of the wars with the Turks, was repopulated in the 18th century with Serbs, Hungarians and Germans. Is it true that non-catholics were forced out of Hungary then? I can't believe that. And these remarks about proselytism and persecution, I'd like to see some unbiased proof of that. Markussep 12:58, 30 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the Bács-Bodrog article do not say that Serbs were expelled from Bačka in the 18th century. It say that "many Serbs were forced to move out". "Many" does not mean "all". It is correct that many Serbs left from Bačka after 1751 and moved to Russia (notably to Nova Serbia and Slavo-Serbia). In 1751, the part of Military Frontier located in Bačka was abolished. Serbs who lived there did not want to became peasants and to lost their military privileges, so they migrated to Russia. That was the main reason for their emigration (I am not sure for the religious persecutions). The emigration of Serbs mostly affected the part of Bačka, which belonged to Military Frontier before 1751. Of course, besides this emigration, there also was a immigration of other Serbs in Bačka during the 18th century. The articles about Bács-Bodrog and Bačka does not contradict each other, but both speak only one part of the story. User:PANONIAN

Maybe you could add this to both articles? The Military Frontier era is also completely absent from both articles now. Markussep 19:51, 30 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I will do that, but only after a few days. I am pretty busy with other things right now. User:PANONIAN

I changed the article now and removed the part which claim that Serbs were persecuted because of their religion. According to information I have, Serbs had their religious privileges within Habsburg Empire between 1690 and 1912. User:PANONIAN

Territorial size[edit]

The Square and the text give different informations on the population in 1910: the text says over 11,000; whereas the table states just a little over 10,000... both from the year of 1910? --PaxEquilibrium 11:28, 15 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Dough! - I was referring to territorial size... --PaxEquilibrium 18:47, 15 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I checked some sources:

[1] says 10,362 in 1913
[2] says 10,362 in 1910
[3] says 11,079, no date given, but I think it's from the 1880s.
[4] says 10,362 before 1920
[5] says 11,080 in 1881.

When I compare the maps (source 1 and 2 vs. source 3), I see no significant differences. Strange. Markussep 19:18, 15 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

But again there are no different results for the same year (1910), right? --PaxEquilibrium 17:12, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That's right, I think 10,362 is the correct number for 1910 then. Still I'm puzzled that the 1880s and 1910 areas are different, although they look the same on maps. Markussep 18:32, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

1751?[edit]

Someone mentioned a change in 1751? Bacs was part of Military Frontier up to then? Wha..? --PaxEquilibrium 18:56, 15 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The eastern part of Bačka was part of Military Frontier before 1751. After frontier was abolished, this area was also included into this county. PANONIAN (talk) 02:36, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

But... the Military Frontier was abolished in the 19th century..? --PaxEquilibrium 16:59, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have no primary sources for this, but I think only the southeasternmost part of Bačka (Šajkaška) was part of the Military Frontier until it was abolished in the 1870s. Before 1751 probably a larger part of Bačka belonged to it. Markussep 18:30, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Military Frontier had different borders in different time periods. Different parts of the Military Frontier were abolished in different time periods and the last part was abolished in 1882. Problem is that article about Military Frontier do not mention two parts of the Frontier that existed in the first half of the 18th century: 1. Danube Frontier that included southern Bačka (including Novi Sad, Bačka Palanka, Bački Petrovac, Titel, etc) and northern Srem (including Petrovaradin, Šid, etc) and 2. Tisa-Mures Frontier that included north-eastern Bačka (including Bečej, Senta, Subotica, Sombor, etc) and Pomorišje (including settlements on the north bank of the river Mures). Most of the parts of these two sections of the frontier were put to civil administration in the middle of the 18th century, while other parts were merged into still-existing sections of the Frontier. The article about Military Frontier should be certainly expanded to mention all this. PANONIAN (talk) 01:46, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I expanded now article about Military Frontier, so you have there a detailed description of the former sections of the frontier: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Frontier#Divisions PANONIAN (talk) 02:48, 17 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]