Talk:Battle of Haldighati

Semi-protected edit request on 28 December 2021

223.235.228.153 (talk) 12:40, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

Battle was won by maharana pratap as the land right were in the hand of Maharana one year after the battle !! At that time only king has the land rights in their hand!! It means Rana was the winner!!

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (talk) 13:02, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

Wrong information

The information which is being spread by Wikipedia about Maharana Pratap is false the Wikipedia says that mugal Empire Won the fight. But the truth is Maharana Pratap actually won the fight because Mogul army was not able to capture Pratap. 110.225.69.78 (talk) 17:16, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Apparently two academic sources disagree with your opinion.

• de la Garza, Andrew (2016). The Mughal Empire at War: Babur, Akbar and the Indian Military Revolution, 1500-1605. Routledge. ISBN 9781317245315. p.56. "One year later the Rajputs attempted a similar all-out charge at Haldighati. The result was an even more decisive Mughal victory." --Kansas Bear (talk) 17:54, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

• Raghavan, T.C.A. (2018). Attendant Lords: Bairam Khan and Abdur Rahim, Courtiers and Poets in Mughal India. HarperCollins. p.67. "Although most of the other Rajput rulers soon entered the Mughal alliance system, the kingdom of Mewar continued its resistance. Udai Singh was followed by his son, Pratap Singh, whose continued opposition to Mughal expansion – despite military defeats, most notably in the battle of Haldighati in 1576..." --Kansas Bear (talk) 17:56, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

@110.225.69.78: You must understand how is the victory of a battle determined. Almost all the Major generals from the side of the Rana were killed in the battle, its soldiers deserted the battle ground and the Rana himself was injured and had to flee the ground. This simply means that there were more damages inflicted on the Rana than on the Mughals which lost a smaller portion of their army as well. You are simply professing Urban Ledgends which has no backing in the Historical Method. @Kansas Bear: can correct me if I'm wrong here? I suggest addition of the exact losses of territories and a mention of the retreat in the result section in the infobox would be helpful to prevent this situation in future. Extorc (talk) 18:54, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

Extorc actually problem lies more with politics, there have been serious attempt to showcase how Mughals were defeated in Battle of Haldighati by Pratap even in academia and school books by some political figures to present their right wing narrative. The solution you are proposing is not what these people seem to care. Sajaypal007 (talk) 14:13, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Maharana Pratap Win

The aim of this battle of akbar is arrest maharana pratap and if aim is not fulfill then how can you say Akbar win?? 223.225.122.244 (talk) 06:19, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia works on Reliable sources, none exist for Maharana's win. Sajaypal007 (talk) 08:03, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

Ram Vallabh Somani's case on indecisive result of battle.

Ram Vallabh Somani, in his book History of Mewar, from Earliest Times to 1751 A.D., p230-231 states

• "Both the Rajputs and the Mughals claimed to have emerged victorious in this battle."
• "... Afunta-Khab-ut Tawarikh categorically affirms that the Mughal army after this battle did not rejoice this “avowed victory.”"
• "They were badly stricken by a panic of sudden invasion by the Rajputs"
• "no officer was rewarded by the Emperor on the so called victory."
  "Mansingh and Asaf Khan were called back to the court and for a few days they were forbidden from appearance’?"
• "These accounts prove that the claim of the Mughals does not carry sufficient weight."
• "By analysing the facts we may say that no party succeeded in achieving ‘complete victory”"
• "Mansingh’s campaign failed in its primary object viz., subjugation of Mewar and killing or capturing of the Maharana."
• "Thus the result of this battle was perhaps “drawn”" >>> Extorc.talk 09:14, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

I have never come across a pre-modern Rajput source that claimed Rana Pratap to have won the war. Somani do not cite any source, either. Or is he saying that the current generation of Rajputs claimed ...?

Somani cites Lowe (1884; p. 239) but I cannot see any categorical rejection of post-war celebration.

The panic was not of an invasion but guerilla attacks. Terminologies matter.

How did Somani (p. 231; footnote 56A) infer from Lowe (1884; p. 239) that people involved in the Battle of Haldighati "fell from confidence", and were "dismissed without punishment"?

Why did you, Extorc, not add the reason behind the treatment met out to Khan and Mansingh? Even Somani is disingenuous in his choice of words; their moral refusal to plunder a conquered territory incurred Akbar's wrath.

These accounts prove nothing and has, indeed, proved nothing for the many more competent historians who have published in peer-reviewed press, concluding the battle to be a victory. I do agree that this was not a "complete victory"; Akbar failed to go as far as he wished, that is, humiliate Rana Pratap to death. And this failure would come back to bite him and give rise to a glorious tale of rebellion against Mughal centralization of power. TrangaBellam (talk) 15:10, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

The overall campaign can be said as failure for Mughals, they did not achieve their objectives like capturing Pratap or even forcing upon him some treaty, the condition of Mughal army worsened in Gogunda as Maharana cut off their communication and supply lines, mughal army was virtually under siege and was harassed with guerilla attacks by Mewar army. And as soon as Man Singh returned, Pratap re-captured the whole territory. The result can also be seen as censure of the commanders by Akbar. But all this is part of the whole campaign which was utter failure but the battle of Haldighati itself was not a loss for mughals, at the end of the day the field remained with Man Singh and so the mughals were technically victorious in the battle atleast. Sajaypal007 (talk) 15:11, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 May 2022

The winner of the war was Maharana Pratap Mewar and not Akbar 2405:204:220D:AE0B:0:0:1202:98AC (talk) 06:56, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. >>> Extorc.talk 09:30, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 May 2022

MAHARANA PRATAP WON THE HALDIGHATI BATTLE NOT AKBAR 117.212.77.8 (talk) 08:22, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Cannolis (talk) 08:29, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 June 2022

Sir current news is that maharana pratap not lose the battle but akbar taken his forces back You can see it in news 2402:8100:3871:C45E:1:1:29B5:533A (talk) 13:41, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: as you have not requested a specific change in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
More importantly, you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 13:55, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Maharana Pratap won the battel

Maharana Pratap won the battel of Haldighati because after Haldighati in 1576, Maharana Pratap distributed land in villages near Haldighati by handing out land rights inscribed on copper plates that has the signature of the Diwan of Eklingnath. 2409:4043:2301:826C:F54D:40EF:930C:F1E0 (talk) 10:41, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

Please cite reliable sources. >>> Extorc.talk 10:51, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 June 2022

"change Result Mughal victory to Result Rajput victory" Da-fdg-hhgh (talk) 15:53, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:53, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 August 2022

2409:4043:4D1A:E80C:C9D9:94D7:6422:D828 (talk) 11:41, 15 August 2022 (UTC) Please change the result mughal amry lost the battel of Haldighati and the result was Rajput victory thank you.

 Not done - multiple reliable sources support the article's statement that it was a Mughal victory. On the contrary, you have provided no reliable sources to support your claim. - Arjayay (talk) 12:23, 15 August 2022 (UTC)-

Semi-protected edit request on 29 November 2022

The information given here has been proven wrong by the Indian government. It was found that the history was manipulated and the books used in Indian schools also show wrong information. Now the government has taken action and has taken action to change the manipulated history information with the right one. Please change it or more people will be affected with this wrong information. Thank you Ayush38206 (talk) 13:32, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: as you have not requested a specific change in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
More importantly, you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 13:49, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Anyone who made this page illiterate as he didn't gave proof that akbar won. I have proof that MAHARANA PRATAP WON. I challenge you to give proof that akbar won.

Anyone who made this page illiterate as he didn't gave proof that akbar won. I have proof that MAHARANA PRATAP WON. I challenge you to give proof that akbar won. 182.64.79.54 (talk) 13:45, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

This has already been answered in the section Talk:Battle of Haldighati#Wrong information above - Arjayay (talk) 14:15, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 May 2023

it was victory of rajput because mughals ran away empty handed ,thats why Akbar cant annex mewar KUNWAR PUSHKAL SINGH (talk) 08:15, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.>>> Extorc.talk 08:17, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Maharana Pratap won the Battle

Chandra Shekhar Sharma, an associate professor at Meera Girls College in Udaipur noted, “In the light of recent research and evidence, historians have come to the conclusion that Pratap’s army never retreated from the Battle of Haldighati. The war was won by Pratap.” 103.80.22.72 (talk) 10:45, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

And your WP:Reliable sources for that claim are? - Arjayay (talk) 10:59, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

Result - Rajput Victory

On 17 Feb 2024 When I visited this page the result described as rajput victory but now on 23 Feb 2024 it shows Mughal Victory. Mananshekhawat (talk) 05:47, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

That is because the current version is correct. >>> Extorc.talk 20:27, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Addition of casualties

@R2dra, my talk page is not the place where to discuss about the additions. Your recent addition adding "80,000 deaths" "20,000 deaths" on Mughal casualties fails verification. The book you cited, Rima Hooja's "Maharana Pratap, the inevitable warrior" cites about the casualties as the same as what we seen in the current version of the article. Moreover, the book is more likely praising the Pratap, as seen in the cover and it's title. Imperial^[AFCND] 09:22, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

@R2dra, may I know the reason why you put that "20,000 deaths" on Mughal side whereas the author doesn't specify the side on the book? This is WP:OR, and I've added the attributes for each account now. Please stop POV pushing as you have done here and here. Please do not pull numbers from nowhere without sources and put it in the way you like. Seems like a lot of warnings have got already. Imperial^[AFCND] 10:48, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

@R2dra, see the last paragraph of the article. Don't try to make it as a double sided victory, RS have mentioned this as Mughal victory. Imperial^[AFCND] 13:19, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Historians like M N Mathur, Ram Nath, A N Bhattacharya, Rima Hooja completely believe that battle of Haldighati was indecisive. Even Rajasthan institute of historical research organisation's researches say the same R2dra (talk) 14:21, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Pinging @Sitush here. @R2dra, the article and reports are showing that this is an attempt of glorifying Pratap. Read the last paragraph of the article. Imperial^[AFCND] 14:23, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Rajasthan institute of historical research organisation is a government organisation they just show facts R2dra (talk) 14:26, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

See this [1] [2] [3] [4][5] [6]. We are using reliable sources to cite wikipedia. Sentiments of others have no position here. So I suggest you to revert your edit considering it as a controversial move. Imperial^[AFCND] 14:47, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

The rakt talai inscriptions, displayed in Haldighati tell that Mughal forces had to step back as they had lost many soldiers and they couldn't capture Maharana Pratap R2dra (talk) 16:06, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

i didn't use any website source, all the sources I've used are books written by well known historians R2dra (talk) 16:07, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

We are using WP:RS to cite wikipedia articles. All of them, except the Rajasthani modern chronicles, states this as the Mughal victory. And I have posted some news articles related to that change. Just because a community protested, I don't believe the outcome of a battle, where it have been almost 500 years, should be changed to please them. If everyone does the same, then what is the point of something called "History"? I have initiated an RFC down there. Let's see what others got to say about this. Imperial^[AFCND] 16:14, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

if you wish I can add even more trusted book sources, if Akbar had won Haldighati then why did he sent shahabaz Khan multiple times to attack on Haldighati (1577-1580) after the battle of Haldighati 1576 R2dra (talk) 16:12, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

RFC about the outcome of the battle

The following discussion is an archived record of a request for comment. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

(non-admin closure) Procedural close per WP:RFC, since initiator voided the discussion. -The Gnome (talk) 18:35, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

---

What was the outcome of the Battle of Haldighati? Consider the above comments.--Imperial^[AFCND] 15:37, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

• You need to formulate your RfC, ImperialAficionado, properly. You can start by having in the RfC everything one needs to know, clearly and explicitly. Otherwise, you run the risk of having the RfC closed. Take care. -The Gnome (talk) 17:53, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

  @The Gnome, hello. I found out that this discussion have been carried out several times. So it is unnecessary to create another discussion. How to close/remove the RFC? It was my only mistake that I didn't research before starting the thread. Imperial^[AFCND] 05:17, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Can be done by you. The relevant conditions for closing are here. Take care. -The Gnome (talk) 11:07, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.