Talk:Battle of Virden

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Needs some research[edit]

needs some research: according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virden,_Illinois, "Of the thirteen dead, six were security guards." http://www.lib.niu.edu/2006/iht1320610.html agrees with these numbers. yet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Virden says "The battle left four security guards and seven striking mine workers dead," — Preceding unsigned comment added by Qureus1 (talk • contribs) 02:59, 28 October 2013 UTC (UTC)

Casualties[edit]

Sangamon Link website lists 8 miners, 5 others, and various may have discrepancies because two miners died the day after the event , and one guard died in December. The "others" were four guards of the Thiel Detective agency (riding the train), and a railroad detective who was guarding a switch (Kiley). So the correct casualty figures are 8 striking miners and 5 others for a total of 13 casualties. — Preceding unsigned comment added by NoPatriarchy (talk • contribs) 03:05, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Battle of Virden recent edits[edit]

My recent edits to the "Battle of Virden" entry.

I edited this item because it was previously fragmentary, had some factual errors, and concentrated solely on labor-management aspects while ignoring glaring racial facts of the Virden Riot. Race was merely noted. During and after the 1897 national coal strike, African-American coal miners were expelled from Macoupin County, Illinois, where Virden is located. Virden and Pana both became sundown towns, exactly at this point.

I omitted the un-cited assertion that the guards fired first, because the coroner's inquiries after October 12 were filled with assertions by one side or the other as to who fired first, and you finally conclude that if you had been there on the ground in 1898, you probably would not know. The facts we need to know for historical analysis is that both sides were "loaded for bear". The mine owner and manager were determined to operate with strikebreakers, and the 2000 armed UMWA miners were determined to keep it shut down. The governor had announced that he would not send in troops, either to escort strikebreakers or to stop them. Everybody, including the press, expected violence. The only thing that could have prevented a conflagration was the standing down of one side or the other.

I omitted the un-cited figure of 50 strikebreakers hurt, because I can find it in no primary or secondary sources. It is true that black casualties very well could have gone un-noted. But the only solid fact we know is that Alabaman Ervin Ryan received a non-fatal shot in the head as he tried to exit the train for the stockade.

I added the fact that the locomotive engineer was shot in the arm. That may be why he pulled the train on to Springfield after only ten or twenty minutes of shooting. Conjunctural facts like this can affect our evaluation of what might have happened.

Anna Karr was mis-identified as a bystander casualty of the Lauder episode. She was the wife of a strikebreaker, on the way from Pana to Carterville. I rewrote some of the Lauder sentences, because it sounded like Lauder was a strike; rather it was just the location where the strikebreaker train was waylaid.

I added facts concerning the secondary white riot in Springfield, where the strikebreaker train went after it was expelled from Virden. That incident, on October 13, was cut short by civil authority after a few injuries.

I have added the fact that families of the strikebreakers were on board the train.

We should probably add the mine-owners employment of ex-Chicago police as guards of the stockade itself.

Sangamon Link website lists 8 miners, 5 others, and various may have discrepancies because two miners died the day after the event , and one guard died in December. The "others" were four guards of the Thiel Detective agency (riding the train), and a railroad detective who was guarding a switch (Kiley). So the correct casualty figures are 8 striking miners and 5 others for a total of 13 casualties. ````

I will shortly add a much more complete bibliography to the "Other Links", and bring them into the "references" as I do a better job of citation.NoPatriarchy (talk) 03:07, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]