Talk:Battle of the Beaufort

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POV[edit]

Unintentional, I'm sure, but there seems to be an Israel bias to this article. Why is there so little detail on how the Palestinians came to hold the Castle, how long they had been there, what they hoped to achieve by holding it etc, when there is a lot of background on the Israeli plans to attack? Why are none of the Palestinian fighters named? Why is there nothing in the aftermath section about the Palestinian reaction to the loss of the castle? For these reasons, I am putting a POV tag on the article. 86.136.31.176 (talk) 14:27, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My primary sources, as you can see, are Israeli ones. They are based on interviews with the soldiers. I'm not even positively sure whether or not there were Palestinian survivors. There is some background on the castle. Other than this, do you see a "Pro-Israel" line in the article? -- Nudve (talk) 14:36, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
No, I didn't think it was pro-Israeli in how you wrote it: the language seems very neutral. It's just in what you wrote about. I see that all your sources are Israeli and fully understand that there may be few contemporary reports written from the Palestinian side of things (the winners usually write the history, as we all know!), but it makes the article very lop-sided. Surely there must be later reports on the battle, or academic syntheses of the Palestinian reactions to the loss of the castle available? I can't believe there is nothing available fm the Palestinian viewpoint. It would make the article more balanced if you could find some and include them. Otherwise, a very interesting article. 86.136.31.176 (talk) 14:49, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I see your point. A quick search in google books has so far come up with little. I'll try to find more when I have time. Thanks for the observations. -- Nudve (talk) 14:59, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I came to this discussion because I notice that it was solely from the Israeli POV. For example, the israeli fighters are personalized with names, the Palestinians are not. The background for the Israeli situation before the battle is document, the background for the Palestinians is not. I do understand that there are limited sources of information for the Palestinian POV, but as the article is it strikes me as a "heroic war story."

That's true, in a way. The battle is famous in Israel a heroic yet ultimately tragic battle. That's part of the reason for the article's notability. Judging by the way the Palestinians fought, it should probably be the same for them. Maybe there are sources in Arabic. -- Nudve (talk) 16:49, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Somewhat late, I believe I have made the article more evenhanded, by including Arabic sources. Its a heroic story for both sides. I have downplayed the role played by the Golani commandos. They died, yes, but they did not defeat the Palestinians single-handedly. The Golani engineers deserve equal credit. Jokkmokks-Goran (talk) 23:51, 10 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Damage to the castle[edit]

Many historic structures are damaged in war. Was this true of the castle? What damage did it suffer as a result of the attack, if any? 86.136.31.176 (talk) 14:27, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There probably was, but I'm not sure exactly how much. -- Nudve (talk) 14:37, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There's discussion of damage to the castle at various points throughout history at the Beaufort Castle, Lebanon article. 69.74.234.178 (talk) 15:44, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Akiye bridge?[edit]

Why is Schiff-Yaari calling the Qa'qa'iya brige "Akiye bridge"? Is that its Hebrew name? Jokkmokks-Goran (talk) 11:46, 18 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Strength and casualties[edit]

How did the Fatah have 21 men, but dozens of casualties? Even two dozens in more than 21. TFighterPilot (talk) 12:13, 3 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

According to Palestinian sources there were only 21 fighters INSIDE the castle. Half a dozen of these escaped, the rest died inside the castle. Several Palestinian fighters were also deployed outside the castle (as the article makes clear). Presumably, several of these were killed and their bodies handed over by the IDF for burial to Lebanese villagers.

Jokkmokks-Goran (talk) 01:04, 16 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Kurdish fighters[edit]

I have removed the Kurdish participation in the Beaufort battle from the info box. The reason is that the Kurds did not participate in the battle of the castle itself, which is the main focus of this article. Not a general description of the clashes on the Nabatiye plateau. Only fighters from the Fatah Student Batallion were deployed inside the castle. The Kurdish PKK fighters fighting with DFLP were deployed near the village of Arnoun, on the road to Nabatiye. I have kept the reference to their participation in the text.

Jokkmokks-Goran (talk) 11:15, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The number of killed and captured PKK fighters mentioned in the article refers to total Kurdish casualties during the war. Some of them may have been killed around the village of Arnoun, on the road to Nabatiye, and may well have been included in the 30, or so, bodies given to local villagers for burial. As was the local commander of DFLP, under whose command the Kurds were fighting. But we don´t know that.

Jokkmokks-Goran (talk) 23:29, 4 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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