Talk:Bernard von NotHaus

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Pending criminal case[edit]

I have added some detail on the federal criminal charges against this individual. Famspear (talk) 20:20, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Schiff as supporter[edit]

Schiff is a supporter, but not necessarily a notable one. One could support the sentence "Schiff, a supporter of the Liberty Dollar, believes that...." And that doesn't belong in the lede.

I will not write comments about Schiff, because WP:BLP does not allow me to state what any rational person, with a basic knowledge of economics and of the facts of the von NotHaus case, knows to be the truth. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 16:13, 10 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This is a non-article[edit]

This is pretty much a non article: The arrest & conviction section is much larger than the life story. Plus if the arrest & conviction is that important, there should be a huge section covering the absurdity of the governments allegations that solid gold & silver coins were a counterfeit of unbacked, paper federal reserve notes. --LanceHaverkamp 17:59, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

After a second read, I realize that there is no life story here at all! As it currently reads, it's just a news story about someone's arrest. I'd welcome a biopgraphy, but this isn't one. --LanceHaverkamp 18:02, 23 April 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lance W. Haverkamp (talk • contribs)
That's a pretty good point. I'm not sure how to merge the two sites. (I'm a newbie here.) But consider me throwing my hat into the ring in favor.GoCubs88 (talk) 02:48, 9 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Until his conviction, I would have agreed that the article should be merged into Liberty Dollar. Now, I'm not so sure. I am sure that no more about the Liberty Dollar should be in this article. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 03:00, 9 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As of April 8, 2012, it appears that Bernard von NotHaus is still awaiting sentencing. Famspear (talk) 03:12, 9 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Coins" versus "rounds", etc.[edit]

An anonymous editor had changed the references in the article from "coins" to "rounds," including one direct quotation from the Associated Press. We cannot change direct quotes merely because we disagree with them, or because von NotHaus disagrees with them. I reverted the material.

The editor seems to think that because von NotHaus said that "we never call them coins," Wikipedia should not call them "coins," either. Sorry, but Wikipedia is not bound by what Mr. von NotHaus says.

As an aside, merely "not calling something a coin" does not make it "not be a coin" under Federal law. Mr. von NotHaus was convicted of passing counterfeit coins -- not merely counterfeit "rounds," as the anonymous editor put it. This is a concept that some people do have problems with: the erroneous idea that someone can make an illegal activity into a legal one merely by avoiding the use of a certain word.

As a further aside, Mr. von NotHaus repeatedly used the term "currency" to describe his Liberty Dollars. If he believed that using the "right" terminology would somehow keep his activity from being illegal, one has to wonder why did didn't also avoid the use of the term "currency". Famspear (talk) 20:02, 15 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Unsourced material removed[edit]

Someone inserted the following quote and attributed the quote to the judge in the NotHaus case:

“His intention – to protest the Federal Reserve system – has always been plain. The jury’s verdict conflates a program created to function as an alternative to the Federal Reserve system with one designed to device people into believing it was the very thing Mr. von NotHaus was protesting in the first place,” the filing reads. “Whatever one’s opinion about the merit of value-based currency, the fact remains that the Liberty Dollars was not a counterfeit and was not intended to function as such. The verdict is a perversion of the counterfeiting statutes and should be set aside.”

The linked source (which was at some point removed a while back), was an article dated April 1, 2013, by an individual named Kenneth Corbin, entitled "Bernard von NotHaus Seeks Acquittal, New Trial," at a web site called "Titania -- the Open Source Ethical Society", at [1].

Even assuming that the Corbin article is a reliable source, the article does not say that this quote was a statement by the judge. Indeed, it would make no sense for the judge in a criminal case to be saying "the verdict is a perversion" and yet do nothing about it. In the United States, a judge in a criminal case has the legal authority to render a judgment contrary to a jury's guilty verdict where the judge concludes, as a matter of law, that the guilty verdict is not supported by the evidence.

Finally, the Corbin article indicates that the quote was from a document filed in the court case by Mr. NotHaus -- not from a statement by the judge. I have therefore removed the unsourced or incorrectly sourced "quote." Famspear (talk) 04:44, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Here is what the Corbin article actually states:

Bernard von NotHaus has been awaiting sentencing on the counterfeiting and fraud charges since, and is building his argument for an acquittal or a new trial with a memorandum filed this week with the U.S. District Court for the Western District of North Carolina.
“The irony of this is that if anything is clear from the evidence presented at trial, it is that the last thing Mr. von NotHaus wanted was for Liberty Dollars was be confused with coins issued by the United States government,” the court filing states, claiming that he has “always operated in the open” and that he took pains to prevent Liberty Dollars from being passed off as U.S. currency.
“His intention – to protest the Federal Reserve system – has always been plain. The jury’s verdict conflates a program created to function as an alternative to the Federal Reserve system with one designed to device people into believing it was the very thing Mr. von NotHaus was protesting in the first place,” the filing reads. “Whatever one’s opinion about the merit of value-based currency, the fact remains that the Liberty Dollars was not a counterfeit and was not intended to function as such. The verdict is a perversion of the counterfeiting statutes and should be set aside.”

--from Kenneth Corbin, April 1, 2013, "Bernard von NotHaus Seeks Acquittal, New Trial," Titania -- the Open Source Ethical Society, at [2] (bolding added).

Corbin is quoting from the memorandum filed by Bernard von NotHaus. Corbin is not quoting the judge in the case. Famspear (talk) 04:52, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Added Notability Tag[edit]

As a new Wikipedia editor I read the article and "figured out" how to place a notability tag on the article; on the basis that the subject did not seem to me to be notable. The tag, I think, opens up the issue of notability as to generate discussion. ~~~ Flibbertigibbets (talk) 17:35, 16 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Re: "did not seem to me to be notable" - the standard of measure is not based on personal opinion. Tag removed. Refer to WP:GNG for list of the notability requirements. There is coverage of the subject (person) in perennial sources (WP:RSP), I easily found several that are not currently included in the article (and would serve as better quality replacements for some current sources). (Related: there could be discussion as to whether his notability stems solely from Liberty Dollars and thus warrants merging with that article, and I may be inclined support a merge with a redirect if there were consensus for that.) ButlerBlog (talk) 14:51, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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