Talk:Big Brother 8 (American season)/Archive 3

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America's Player

I was just wondering how it is known that Nick was selected as Eric's new target before the show aired. I don't subscribe to the live feed, so I'm not at all sure of this, but I didn't think that you were able to see into the diary room and this is where Eric receives his tasks. I just think that if this is based on his activity in the house, it shouldn't be in the table until it is definite (i.e. aired on CBS). - zachinthebox 15:37, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Someone probably assumed by watching the feeds that Eric was heavily campaigning for Nick to be nominated. I don't know if that's true, it's just my guess. I don't have the feeds either. - Jeeny Talk 18:09, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
I have a question about how it is known the way America is voting if the answer to the question is posted here before the air date of the question? Can anyone help me with how this is working. When does the completed tasks list get changed from pending to either pass or fail?Fishook 15:53, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
No one knows how America has voted. People with the live feeds are changing the table based on the activity they see in the house, however it shouldn't be changed until it is confirmed on the air date. The task is changed to successful/failed whenever Eric completes or fails the task (during the episode aired on CBS - not the live feeds!). Sometimes there are special circumstances like in Task 9, where even though Jen has been nominated, Eric is still able to fail the task if she is vetoed off the block by someone, so it will be changed whenever the veto meeting is held. There are exceptions with some tasks though, such as the catchphrase one, because they are very easy to pick up on, however it will not be successful or failed until Big Brother says so. - zachinthebox 17:32, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks Zack for you answer.  :)Fishook 21:41, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
You're more than welcome - zachinthebox 23:23, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
okay, i have a new question... are we sure that Eric's assignment of getting Dustin to nominate Jen is marked as a failure? that doesnt seem to make sense.... Dustin nominated Jen, that is a success. period. can someone confirm that if somebody uses the veto to change Dustins nominations, that that does not end up being a success for Eric, that doesnt seem to make much sense if that is the case...as that is clearly out of Eric's control.... also, the assignment was to have Dustin NOMINATE Jen... not to ensure that Jen remains on the block. i think that the assignment section for Eric needs to be corrected or clarified, as i don't think that is a failure.208.34.82.6 12:40, 31 July 2007 (UTC)BIG franky
to whomever made the correction, wow! that was fast! thanks.... great work. 208.34.82.6 13:50, 31 July 2007 (UTC)BIG franky
okay, its me again... looks like we seem to be flip-flopping here... if the task was indeed deemed a failure, which clearly doees not make sense, but for the sake of arguement, lets say that is the case, where are the rules clearly defined as to what constitutes a success and a failure for the eviction tasks that Eric must complete. i.e., where is it stipulated that the person must remain on the block throughout the week for the task to be deemed a success. this should clearly be cited. if it cannot be cited, then it should be corrected. 208.34.82.6 14:32, 31 July 2007 (UTC)BIG franky
Also, not only is the notion that the player that Eric successfully gets the HOH to nominate remain on the block flawed (no citation to rules.... where is that stated?), along with not making sense.... it isnt even consistant with what is illustrated on the page, as Eric's task to get Jen nominated by Dick is described as a success when she removed herself from the block, which is the exact reason why the Dustin task is labeled as a failure. if the rules are not clearly written out by CBS, than i dont think it makes sense to stipulate on this article... it is not factual and is mis-leading. if we dont know for sure what is designated as a success or a failure, than it shouldnt be posted on the page. i know that some of the tasks are outlined on the show, but we are not clear on the nomination tasks (Julie Chen did advise that if the player that Eric votes for does not get removed from the game than it is deemed a failure.... but she never discussed the nomination tasks). please clarify and provide the proper citation. either that or the table shoudl be removed or corrected to reflect uncertainties. 208.34.82.6 14:42, 31 July 2007 (UTC)BIG franky

The outline of the nomination task has not been revealed to us, the viewer, but I'm sure that the producers have one and Eric has been filled in on this. If you take a look at the Big Brother wiki on the CBS website (http://bigbrotherwiki.cbs.com/page/America%27s+Player), it shows all of the tasks Eric has performed, and whether he has completed them or not. It reads:

7-22-07 Eric had to persuade Dick to put up Jen, which took little effot and gained easy success in the beginning at least.

  • MISSION SIX INCOMPLETE! While Jen was originally put up, she had to stay on the block for Eric to collect a complete status. As she vetoed herself, he lost the mission.

So according to this, and this is what I think we should follow in case of disputes like this, Eric has failed task #6. Also, if you take a look at the ninth task, it says:

7-29-07 Eric got it complete for right now that is by getting Jen nominated and securing Dustin's will to nominate her. Now, he must make sure she stays on the block to get the mission totally complete.

  • MISSION NINE COMPLETE (for right now)! If she stays on, he will earn his first $10,000.

Again, it says that the nominee has to "stay on" for the task to be complete, earning him $10 000 (which by the way, he would have earned on the last task had Task #6 been successful). - zachinthebox 16:13, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Great! thanks for the clarification and the citation... though i think it is unfair and doesnt make a whole hell of a lot of sense, it is outlined and the chart is now easier to understand and it is clear that it is factual. also thanks for correcting the Dick nomination week to a failure based on CBS' outline. great work! 208.34.82.6 16:45, 31 July 2007 (UTC)BIG franky
Glad I could help :) and I completely agree with you that if the person that America has chosen goes up on the block, it should be a complete, but I understand why CBS makes the rules the way they do because even though they are originally nominated, they are not going to be voted against so technically they were never nominated (and CBS doesn't want to give away more money than they have to :P). - zachinthebox 17:23, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
Using a fan-maintained wiki as an authoritative source seems rather disingenuous. Anyone can edit those pages, just like here. Doesn't anyone have a better source that Eric has won or lost the nomination tasks? 72.199.211.88 12:30, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
There isn't much out there. They sometimes mention Eric's task in the recap, but not always. It's the best thing we have, and I've only seen it changed once (for formatting). - zachinthebox 15:26, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
I agree too that Eric has been cheated by this "new unspoken rule". The task "Which HG should Eric convince the HoH to nominate" is BS. It should count, if they do indeed get nominated. But, like Zackintebox says, I guess CBS was going to have to pay too much money out, because now every Tuesday is the same task, "Who should Evic get evicted", rather than the first couple of times it was "Who should Eric vote to evict?". Which I do agree with that word change, because he doesn't have to vote because he has to choose the viewer's choice, so he would win that task every time without having to do anything. But the nominee one is dubious. <shrug> - Jeeny Talk 16:58, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
CBS should change the "America's Player" page on their official website with all of the tasks, and the rules for them, so that everyone knows exactly what is going on 8-) - zachinthebox 18:22, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Eric himself just whispered to the cameras that the Woobie task got him to $30,000 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsiUxBhQXmM), so he obviously believes he's completed 15 tasks. Since he must be privy to the actual rules, so it's a strong argument that the nomination tasks are completed at the time of nomination. That still doesn't quite get him to 15, so perhaps he mistakenly believes he completed the silent treatment task or something else. 72.199.211.88 12:02, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Or the producers have told him he has 15 and we aren't privy to how they're tracking things. They have only explicitly "Failed" a few of his tasks on air, so any thoughts about AP scoring are mostly speculation. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.69.1.3 (talk) 15:01, August 20, 2007 (UTC)

the other thing to consider is cbs is more than likely giving him the eviction vote whether the person goes home or not. that would be the 2 he needs along with the nomination tasks in question to get him to 15. they dont say whether those are failed or completed either and they changed the name of that task as well. my guess is they know eric isnt going to end up in the finals and so they are giving him a consolation prize. wiki —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.24.242.97 (talk)

Eric saying that he has won $30 000 isn't enough evidence of the tasks he has completed. Until CBS has confirmed the amount of tasks, and/or the individual results of each task, the unknown tasks should remain TBA. - zachinthebox (User • Talk) 00:18, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Voting Table - Suggested Change

what happened to the Chronology that was deleted why please but that back

Ok I know that there was an agreement for the grey lines to be ok to use but three lines? Can't we have one line but make it bolder? Like this:

Veto Winner Daniele Daniele
Nominations
(post-veto) 		Amber
Carol		 Dick
Joe
Amber Nominated Joe
Evicted Carol
10 of 11 votes		 Joe
9 of 10 votes

It's easy to read. A single line so the table doesn't look cluttered and the black is bold enough to separate the sections. I posted this in the other Voting Table part but no one replied. Alucard 16 06:55, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

I tried a while back to change the color to black rather than the double lines, but it didn't work. What you posted does not look black to me either. But the line between the blue and the red looks brighter. It's not black. I don't know. I think the double line works better. <shrug> - Jeeny Talk 02:50, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Looks black to me. <shrugs also> How about this...
Veto Winner Daniele Daniele
Nominations
(post-veto) 		Amber
Carol		 Dick
Joe
Amber Nominated Joe
Evicted Carol
10 of 11 votes		 Joe
9 of 10 votes
Does that look better? Alucard 16 04:24, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
That looks better. Thank you. I don't understand why I can't see it as black. I KNOW I used the hex code for black too, sheesh. Maybe it's IE. I'm gonna change to FireFox and see if that makes a difference. :/ - Jeeny Talk 16:42, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Your welcome, I know this BB but I have to say I love FireFox. It loads better than IE. The only thing that FF has trouble with sometimes is when I try to watch House Calls then I have to use the IE for that. Alucard 16 18:12, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Hmm, now I'm on FireFox, and the first one is definitely a BLACK, thick line. The second table is dark gray and thick, like the first. Screwy. %} - Jeeny Talk 21:48, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
I think it is something with IE7 then and the way it reads the tables I think. Alucard 16 19:19, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Week 4 Nominations

Why is Nick highlighted as being nominated? The veto meeting doesn't seem to be until Monday? User:ScottAHudson

In the chronology table, could someone list the people that won and lost Week 4's food competition? ScottAHudson 10:49 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Sure I don't mind.Alucard 16 04:10, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
I just noticed it in the Competitions section for Week 4.Alucard 16 04:11, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

To ScottAHudson: That was me who added Nick the to the voting history, sorry. It seemed like a done deal, and it did end up happening. I think I put it in on Sunday night, I have the live feeds and the LNC were talking about it. But whatever, it's gone now. I'll wait until they actually have done the comp/ceremony next time. 99.243.247.227 19:46, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Idiots who delete rather than add

I'm extremely tired of bringing this up, but stop deleting housemate information during their time in the house. Do not delete in current time, keep everything that's written, especially references. This is what WP:BIGBRO requires:

Geoking66talk 15:43, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Is there any way we can get this article semi-protected like Big Brother 2007 (UK)? Alucard 16 21:27, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

List of contestants

Why is the list of contestants on the upper-right section of the page not modified like the contestant lists on previous seasons so that it is hidden by default and requires clicking the show button to reveal the whole list?

I could probably take a wild guess that the hidden list is for the end of the game in September User:ScottAHudson
You guessed correctly Scott Alucard 16 18:13, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

EvelDick or Evil Dick?

Maybe EvelDick is more polite, but come on, we know he's being referred to as Evil or Evil Dick.. not Evel.. even if CBS wants us to believe that. I think this should be changed. --I'm here for the words 18:59, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

It is Evel Dick, from Evel Dick himself. He's told the story. The name EvilDick was taken so he changed it to Evel (like "Evel" Knievel), and he said it stuck, and everyone knows him as that! It's EvelDick. Just like my user name is spelled "Jeeny" my real name is spelled "Jeannie" It's pronounced the SAME. (when I first registered with my ISP years ago, Jeannie was taken, and I didn't want a bunch of numbers behind it. It stuck with me "Jeeny") That's what happened to him, but you don't know that Evil is preferred over Evel, for Dick, as with me, he may feel that it's his own identity. - Jeeny Talk 19:14, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
I see, well if it's from the mouth of the EvelDick himself, have to go with that. --I'm here for the words 19:17, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Colours in the Infobox

I don't want to bring this up before anything actually happens, but on Showtime I'm hearing the words "Voluntary Exit" being thrown around right now. Since the color we use for HoH is the one used for voluntary exit in other places, what color would we use if it did happen? T (Formerly Known as FireSpike) 04:19, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

If that happened with this Big Brother, then the template itself would have to be modified from the looks of it. Because there is a space for nominations, evictions, then two other spaces, legend3 is used for HoH and if someone is expelled then we use legend5. The only thing I can think of is use the color that is normally used for an expelled houseguest. Or modify the template to include an additional spot with another color. I know right now Big Brother 2007 (UK) is using their nominations color this week to identify "Halfway Housemates". So the only thing I can think of if someone walked off the show use the color we would normally use for an expelled/ejected houseguest. Alucard 16 19:17, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
I think it should either be a lighter or darker shade of the Eviction color, or another color altogether. The UK version is so different than the US version. I wish they would include some of the same twists, and activities into the US version. But, they don't, and haven't, so a different hue of the color of eviction may clue the clueless. :) - Jeeny Talk 07:24, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
How about:

     - Nominated
     - Head of Household
     - Evicted
     - Walked
     - Ejected Geoking66talk 22:38, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

I like those colours except that I think "ejected" should be the dark colour (    ) and "walked" should be the lighter one (    ) just because being ejected seems more dark than walking. - zachinthebox 22:50, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
I think the color green is too dark. Perhaps something like this, as I think the hue should be the same, for aesthetic reasons. But still easy to differentiate.

     - Nominated
     - Head of Household
     - Evicted
     - Walked
     - Ejected - Jeeny Talk 23:29, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

I like these colours - zachinthebox 23:41, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
I'll change the nemesis colour in the voting history to a light blue as per other BB articles. Geoking66talk 00:03, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Ok for the Infobox (Big Brother housemates) there is a new legend called "legend6" and it is a green color. We can use this for the HoH instead of "legend3" or yellow since all other BB articles with houseguests (housemates) uses "legend3" for housemates who walk. Problem solved. Alucard 16 03:18, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

America's Player - "Get Evicted" or "Vote to Evict"

I realize that the question at the end of the show says "Who should Eric vote to evict" or something close to that, but the truth of the task is that Eric has to get the person evicted from the house in order to be successful in the task, not just simply vote for the person. All of the descriptions of the tasks in the America's Player table are paraphrased to get the general meaning across with as few words as possible and I think that "Who should Eric get evicted?" does this the best, however IP address 68.99.22.67 believes it should be "Who should Eric vote to evict?". Anyone else have an opinion? - zachinthebox 20:37, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I understand what you're saying, but Eric can't "get" anyone evicted, he can only vote for the person who America chooses. I know the person he/we vote for needs to leave before it's considered successful. Maybe add this to the notes to explain in more detail, because that is the question BB asks the audience, "Who should Eric vote to evict?". I was going to do that with a few of the notes to be clear, but changed my mind as they looked long, and was too lazy to figure a way to write it to be short, but precise and clear. I don't think being too long in the notes section is a big problem, but I think the bigger problem is re-wording the actual question asked of the viewers for Eric's tasks. What do you think about adding to the notes instead? - Jeeny Talk 20:57, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
How about changing the description to "Who should Eric try to get evicted?" - zachinthebox 21:17, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
The last two are fine as "Who should Eric get evicted" because that's actually what the tasks were the last two weeks, but the first week, his task was only to vote to evict Carol. He wasn't given the task until the day of the voting. Go back and watch the third episode if you're still unsure.
I don't think that will help, because that is not the question asked. I believe the titles should reflect the exact question asked of the viewers after the shows. But, describe the differences in the notes why it's failed, or why it doesn't seem to match the question, is a better solution IMO. - Jeeny Talk 23:47, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
Okay. I'm pretty sure the exact wording of the first one was "Who should Eric vote to evict?" I know it was almost exactly that if not that. I think they should be verbatim what we were told on the shows and Eric was only told to vote the first week, not campaign. The episode aired on a Tuesday meaning the results wouldn't come until that night. Unless there is live voting, voting takes place in the house on Wednesday. It would not make sense for Eric to only be given a few hours to campaign, so he was only told to vote to evict Carol. From then on, the voting has been live so Eric has two days to campaign and it became "Who should Eric get evicted from the Big Brother house" rather than just who he should vote for.68.99.22.67 03:14, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
That makes sense, I had forgotten that the first eviction night wasn't live. Thank you 68.99.22.67! :)- zachinthebox 03:24, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
P.S. the new descriptions look great Jeeny!
It's all good. Sometimes I get anal about small stuff.68.99.22.67 03:52, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

I'll stop

I've decided to stop complaining about you guys putting nominations and veto up before the show airs, even though I still don't like it you guys obviousely think it is important to put it up early. Seth71 18:27, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Jen

Why do you think america is giving eric assignments telling him to get Jen nominated while jen is 2nd in popularity. No one ever answers questions there this is why i didn't want to ask it here cause this is what you would do. Seth71 18:44, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Who knows why? Maybe she's the most fun to watch and react to what happens when she is targeted by Eric. - zachinthebox 15:59, 2 August 2007 (UTC)


Highlights

Because people are adding way too much information about competitions (the details can be found in the references) and the article has become over 40KB long, I split the chronology into a separate article (Big Brother 8 (US) highlights) as was done in Big Brother Australia 2007 Highlights. Please do not revert. Geoking66talk 01:44, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Week 5 HoH

Is Daniele really the new HoH? I saw her name in the box in the voting chart! She'll will likely nominate Jen and someone else, maybe Dustin for nominating Nick. User:ScottAHudson

Yes, Danielle is the new HoH as per the live feeds. Nominations will occur tonight. fmmarianicolon | Talk 18:22, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
You're right, Jen WAS nominated, along with Kail. 99.243.247.227 19:58, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Color coding should be consistant

Please do not change them mid season. BBUK and BBAU is very different. The colors are confusing enough when they don't match from one table to another. Some one, maybe me, should propose this a new guideline. BBUS is very different from the European versions and needs to be consistent to those who are not familiar with the color coding. Remember this is an encycolpedia, not a inside job to those who are familiar with the WP:BIGBRO "guidelines". Wikipedia is to be written for those to learn, not be confused, and then have to look all over the place to figure out what a color means, and why they are different even though they mean the same thing. (I'm really tired right now, and sorry if I'm not making sense. I'll look again tomorrow, when I'm fresh and able to address this issue) I just didn't want to change something without explaining my objections and changes on the talk page. Peace. - Jeeny Talk 05:44, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Infobox coloring

In the event that a houseguest does leave voluntary in this season or future seasons I think that there may be a solution to the infobox colors.

We use "legend3" here for Head of Household while in other countries they use this for voluntary exits or walks. In order to provide consistency in the US articles, the "legend3" should remain to be used for the Head of Household.

There is a new color/legend that was added to the {{Big Brother housemates}} infobox just a few days ago, it is "legend6" and it is a pale green color. We can use "legend6" in the US articles to represent a voluntary exit. I have added this color to the {{Big Brother endgame}} infobox so if we do decide to use "legend6" for voluntary exits it will be the same in the endgame infobox. If you guys would like to see some examples please see my talk entry on the discussion page of the {{Big Brother endgame}} template page. Alucard 16 22:20, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

We really ought to change to using the green legend for HoH. Green is usually seen as a positive color, and HoH being a positive thing should be green. That and to keep up consistency with the international articles we should reserve the yellow for a voluntary exit. T (Formerly Known as FireSpike) 02:10, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Big Brother US has never had a voluntary exit. I don't think that "Walked" should be added to the legend unless it at some point happens. Two houseguests have been ejected in two separate seasons, but it wasn't added to the legend in every season. It is a waste of space in the already extremely long articles for the individual Big Brother seasons. 99.243.247.227 02:20, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Kail has asked to leave before, so if she's still in the "leaving" mode, we could see it. T (Formerly Known as FireSpike) 02:42, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
I know, I understand, but because the pages are getting long, "Walked" doesn't need to be added until it happens. So if Kail walks, you can add it, but it is a waste to add it if it doesn't happen. I know there could be several scenarios pertaining to one or few houseguests, such as "Taped Evicion" or "Special Eviction", or "Not Eligible". S***, I don't care if "Hit and Killed By An Asteroid" is put in the legend. Just don't add until it happens. So until someone walks, gets thrown out, or gets killed by an asteroid, we can free up a little space for now. 99.243.247.227 19:54, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
If we change the HoH color to the green color or "legend6" the only thing that would happen is the current HoH will be highlighted in green and thats it. The yellow color or walked wouldn't appear in the infobox until someone actually walked off the show. I think the main problem that some people have with changing the color from "legend3"/yellow to "legend6"/green is that in the voting history table yellow is meant for the HoH. Which the voting table colors shouldn't matter since the only the eviction color is the same between the two and they are totally different.Alucard 16 02:54, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Please do not change it to green. Not in the middle of the series, especially. It's confusing. I have many issues regarding the colors and the constant referring to the international versions. As they are very different. Also, why, oh why are the colors different in the info box from the voting history? That adds more confusion! If there were not the titles to tell us what it means, how would one know? Again all these different colors are confusing. Wikipedia is to help people understand what they are reading and seeing. Not all these different color codes that mean different things, or especially THE SAME THING, but are different colors in the article! Simple is best. - Jeeny Talk 03:29, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Also, green means go, red means stop, yellow means yield. In traffic signals. lol - Jeeny Talk 03:37, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Good point with that traffic symbol Jeeny. :) T (Formerly Known as FireSpike) 03:54, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
I think that the colors in the infoboxes should match the colors in the voting/nominations tables. I do agree with Jenny that when looking at the tables and infoboxes the various colors can be confusing. Since a pink color represents walk in the tables I think it should be the same in the infoboxes. Alucard 16 04:24, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
In BBUK the same problem arises. However, having a legend in each of the different tables (under the names in the template, walked etc in the coloured row in the voting history box) solves the problem. Geoking66talk 19:41, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Here is the solution that I think will solve the problems. Please see my discussion at WP:BIGBRO. I am basically proposing making the colors like Walked and HoH match the colors that are used for the tables. Like making a uniform standard for the Infoboxes like the Tables have regardless if it is the American, Australian, or Britain version. For more info please read the discussion. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 07:01, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
I think that we should (as my fifth grade teacher puts it) "cross that bridge when we get there". No one has walked, Kail has mentioned it, but no one has, so let's just wait until someone does before we all start discussing loudly :) - zachinthebox 04:56, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Thats good but it would be better if we settle this now that way in future Big Brother seasons if the situation does arise then we would know how to deal with it. We are already discussing it so we should finish it now then wait to decide later. Alucard 16 05:20, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Catchphrase Task

Is there a status for the "I'd do that for a dollar!" yet? If so, please add the color and word to the Pending box for the task. ScottAHudson 23:28, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

There's no status yet. It's still pending. - Jeeny Talk 23:40, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
The task has been completed. 99.243.247.227 04:36, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Veto Ceremony

Has the Veto Ceremony taken place yet? Alucard 16 01:40, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

The Veto Ceremony will take on Monday, August 6, 2007, sometime in the afternoon between 12pm - 4pm PDT. 99.243.247.227 01:44, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

America's Player-Eric

What do you think would happen to America's Player if Eric were the one to go home this week? Would they select a new one? ScottAHudson 4:30, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

No, if Eric were to go home the whole "America's Player" thing would be gone along with him. - zachinthebox 16:12, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Just a reminder:

This is a talk page for discussion of the article about Big Brother 8 (US). It is not for discussion about the program itself, unless that discussion involves improving the article. In particular, it is not for discussion about whether or not Big Brother 8 (US) is a "good" or "bad" program; or finding out what "this and that" are; or what will happen after "something". Please see "Wikipedia is not a soapbox" and "Wikiquette" for information about the proper use of talk pages.

- Jeeny Talk 17:29, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Sorry Jeeny, but I just got to say I knew this would happen america would not see thing s as they do in the house, america played on the way by saying I like this person more than this person so I'm going to vote for the person I hate. America just didn't see that even though they liked Nick more than Kail for Eric's own safty it was a better strategic move. So now since america played on a personal level Eric is in a lot of danger. Seth71 00:19, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I knew too. It sucks. - Jeeny Talk 00:24, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

From now on I'm just going to leave little reminders so that people can come to my discussion page to answer my questions, by the way I have a question. Seth71 00:39, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Big Brother italicisation

I just want to clear this up, considering there is some debate over this topic: when is Big Brother to be italicised or not? Technically, when referring to the television programme itself, we should write Big Brother. However, if we are mentioning Big Brother as in the producers and not necessarily the show, then it is just Big Brother. Exempli gratia:

  • Incorrect: On Day 34, she told Big Brother that she wanted to leave the House and walk. She was talked out of it by the show's producers.
  • Correct: On Day 34, she told Big Brother that she wanted to leave the House and walk. She was talked out of it by the show's producers.
  • Incorrect: A devout fan of Big Brother, Kail had previously applied for Big Brother 5 and Big Brother 6.
  • Correct: A devout fan of Big Brother, Kail had previously applied for Big Brother 5 and Big Brother 6. Geoking66talk 01:52, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
This last one looks incorrect to me... the first Big Brother should be italicized as well because she's a fan of the program and not of the producers. --Renrenren 12:30, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
The first is correct because in this sense, Big Brother is a person. She is not talking to the show, rather to a producer.

Infobox Changes

I have held a discussion at WP:BIGBRO about changing the colors of the Infoboxes to match the Nominations/Voting History colors to create a more uniform look between the two. Only three people replied which was a shock to me. Two people thought it was a good idea so I went ahead and made the changes to the Infoboxes. If you want to read the discussion or want to discuss the matter further click here. This solves the problem if someone walks from the show now or in the future. To get the correct color for the Head of Household in the Infobox you need to put "hoh" without the quotations in hmxx-status. If you use "legend3" or "three" you will get a green color. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 10:03, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Jury Members

Since the game is down to nine players, the seven evicted form the jury. Do we want to indicate Jury Members with a different color in the Infobox? ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 02:03, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

We should still use the evicted color because the voting history would indicate that the person was a member of the jury because the results box for that person would be showing, meaning that they were not evicted before sequester. User:ScottAHudson

America's Player Flatter Task

That task Eric given to flatter someone, why didn't CBS show it on their broadcast Thursday night? User:ScottAHudson

I actually don't know I thought that was weird. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 02:44, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Dick was chosen.

Is there any source for the fact that Dick was chosen to be flattered? Also is there any official tallying of how America Player is doing with these tasks and how much money he has earned? Ramsquire (throw me a line) 23:38, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

It was not shown on the broadcast because he didn't do it and they had more important things to get to. 99.243.247.227 20:27, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Why wasnt Kail told about Eric "america's player" after she was voted out possible Twist

How come Julie Chen didnt mention Eric was Americas Player while talking to Kail after she was evicted

Usually Eric would tape a goodbye and reveal it in there but since he was nominated, there was no goodbye tape from him (I think). She was probably told about it off camera. - zachinthebox 15:49, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Actually nominees have recored goodbye messages for each other before but maybe Julie forgot or just told her off camera. Also I think there is going to be a couple of double evictions this season, does anyone know how to modify the table in case there are double evictions?♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 20:25, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Julie told her on The Early Show.

They are only told if he did something to them. Example, when Joe was evicted the showed him crawling in bed with him. They didn't show Mike, and they showed Nick because Nick was being blamed for the other Kail vote. And they will show Jen about her shirt, and they might show Dick the Kail votes or the catchphrase thing. And no, there is no twist, no one is re-entering this season, everyone has had contact with the outside world, half of them know about America's Player, Nick has left the country, some one will re-enter on Big Brother 9 (every three seasons, Amy BB3, Kaysar BB6) 99.243.247.227 20:25, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm guessing that none of the other houseguests will be informed of America's Player until the finale because all remaining HouseGuests will be going to the sequester (jury) house. Obviously America's Player is a house secret, so I doubt it will be revealed. --Rjd0060 14:45, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
I'm guessing the same thing with the remaining HouseGuests going to sequester. Of course, unless Eric goes to sequester I wonder what then. - Jeeny Talk 16:15, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
I think if when Eric is evicted they will tell them because if he is evicted it won't affect anyone in the game (well, it might, but I think they will tell evicted HG's after he is gone) - Spyke1077 04:18, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Amber and anti-Semitism

Please do not delete the information about Amber and the anti-Semitism controversy. It's quite pertinent and is something that should be put into the article. Geoking66talk 22:42, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Jameka HoH

In the article under Jameka's name it says: "This means that she will not, ever, be able to compete in a HoH competition for the rest of the season." Is this correct? Because if she makes it to the final 3, will they allow her to play or does she still have to sit out? - zachinthebox 22:56, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

I thought it was 5 HoH comps. I haven't done the math though, so don't know if that means she will never be able to compete. I suggest changing it to reflect she foreited 5 HoHs, rather than commentary anyway. People can do their own math, if it ends up she can't compete. Thanks for the eagle eye there. :) - Jeeny Talk 23:15, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
I think she has to sit out of 5 HoH competitons, not 5 weeks of HoH competitions. There is probably going to be 2 double week evictions so if she does make it to final 3, I'm pretty sure she'll be able to play it. But we'll have to see...Ô 23:30, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Good point Ô, I removed that sentence from the article. Thanks. - Jeeny Talk 23:35, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Ahhh good thinking Ô - zachinthebox 23:43, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
There is most likely going to be at least two double evictions minimum to have the final two by Week 10 since the voting chart on the official site is set for 10 weeks. Judging by Season 6 and 7 there could be a double eviction next week and one could happen on the eighth or ninth week. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 23:46, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
No problem guys. By the way you are all doing a good job of updating this article! Ô 23:47, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Evel Dick & Religion

I've noticed that several times Dick's religious beliefs have been added to his bio and removed. Just wondering what everyone thinks of that, and if it needs to be a part of the writeup. Dick's religion does set him apart from the rest of the players, and is a source of purposeful conflict for him. Snowfire51 02:50, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Also, we've referred to Dick as having "Anti-Christian discrimination." I'm not sure about that, what I've seen is Dick using the professed religious beliefs of the other players to taunt them about their actions in the house. That's not anti-Christian, it's more of Dick pointing out what he sees as hypocrisy. Are there examples of anti-Christian remarks? Snowfire51 02:58, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

He is using their religion to taunt them. Saying they are hypocrites, etc. I guess anti-Christian is a bit strong. But, I do think to label him an Atheist is not correct either. He may have said that, although I haven't heard it. But, he could be just saying it. I don't know. It's better, if it's true he did say that, to say HE SAID it, not he IS one. A lot of people who say they are Atheists are really Agnostic. He also does a lot more than taunt them for their religious beliefs. He has attacked Eric, Jen, Amber and Dustin, and they are not part of his religious tauntings, but just pure verbal abuse. - Jeeny Talk 03:17, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
IIRC, Dick said "I'm a better Christian than you are" to Jameka on last night's (Aug 14th) episode, if that may have any bearing on this tangent. Tarc 17:29, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Suggested Modification to Floorplan Used in this Article

Please see discussion here. --Anonymous 16:23, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

I'll try to work on it in the next couple of days. Thanks! - Jeeny Talk 16:52, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
Apparently Jeeny has quit Wikipedia. Any other takers? --Anonymous 04:59, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Eric did not complete tasks 6, 9, and 12

Since Jen was saved by the Veto, Eric did not receive credit for tasks 6 9 and 12. Also, how do we know Eric completed Task 10? It was never aired.

America'ss decision on task 10 was to flatter Dick, but on the live feed he decided not to do it in risk of starting another fight with Dick. Also leave your user name by putting 4 of those wiggley things by the number 1. Seth71 20:40, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't know when or by whom those tasks where changed to complete, except for #10. There's been a lot of activity lately, changing info incorrectly. Someone keeps putting Mark, for Eric. They've stopped for now on that one. But the task table needs to be watched for incorrect info. Thanks. - Jeeny Talk 21:08, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
It is very tedious to keep coming back to the article to see that someone has changed tasks 6, 9 and 12 all to complete, when it has been agreed that he has failed these tasks. If whoever is doing this could stop, I'm sure that everyone would appreciate this very much. - zachinthebox 23:01, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
Looking at the Big Brother Wiki on CBS.com here is what I got from it in terms of America's Player (This also answers the new discussion about "America's Player" below. Ok here is what the Wiki from CBS.com says: Assignments Given: 14; Assignments Completed: 5 (Missions 1, 2, 5, 7, 13); Assignments Incomplete: 7 (Missions 3, 4, 6, 8, 9, 11, 12); Assignments Unknown: 2 (Missions 10, 14) I am not sure how this holds up here but even that Wiki even has where America told Eric to get Jen nominated were counted as failed because she removed herself with the POV. CBS needs to have an official list of what he as done, what he failed, and what he needs to do. Simple. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 11:36, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
So shouldnt we just change 10, 14 to unknown with a gray background. According to the cbs wiki he failed 3, 4, 6, 8, 9, 11, 12, 15. I thought that if the person nominated was taken off Eric didnt get the money. Heres a link that the person talked to someone at CBS about the tasks. http://www.realitynewsonline.com/cgi-bin/ae.pl?mode=1&article=article7214.art&page=1 Its a little bit confusing because it says of "As of Thursday’s show (8/2), Eric has completed 7 of 9 America’s Player tasks.” Im confused how to read the table in the article so you guys can figure out whats right/wrong and what doesnt match up but at least we know that by 8/12 Eric made $10,000. Rosario lopez 07:46, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
The CBS wiki can be edited by anyone, so it's not really a realiable source. We can only treat what is on the main cbs.com site and what airs on the CBS episodes as official. Anything that was shown as completed or failed on an episode should be marked, the rest should be unknown unless we know the exact rules of the task from a previous task. --William Graham talk 14:58, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Agreed, I know the CBS wiki is unreliable. I think the way it is now with the TBA is fine. But I'm still confused on the link that said by 8/12 he completed 7 out of 9 task. Does that reflect in the table?Rosario lopez 20:02, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

America's Player Info Possibly Inaccurate?

Hey guys, I know you've been sourcing info from the BB8 wiki but this article with CBS has contradictory info. Assuming the info in that article is correct (that Eric completed 7 of the first 9 tasks) then it seems likely that he did in fact complete tasks 6 and 9 since the task was just to get Jen nominated, which she initially was until she took herself off the block. The question in my mind is what is the other fail of the first nine tasks aside from the sleepwalking task? Seems it would most likely be either the get Jessica nominated or get Kail evicted tasks. Do you know where the BB8 wiki is getting its info? Any way to compare sources?

Most of the information is from the show itself. The only time the BB8 wiki is used is when CBS is unclear to us on the episode whether Eric has or has not completed the task. - zachinthebox 13:36, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Most of the section is simply speculation. CBS has no official tally of these tasks, and outside of the voting, it has been all over the place as to his success on the other tasks. The show never mentioned if he passed the slogan task, the flattering of a housequest, and whether he passed the silent treatment test is still up in the air pending Tuesday's show. Ramsquire (throw me a line) 16:23, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
In my opinion, you are totally right. The only ones we can be 100% sure on are the eviction tasks, and the ones that are shown as a graphic on the screen. Otherwise, it's basically the word of whoever has access to the live feeds (which I don't) - zachinthebox 18:50, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
ok now someone has posted this for jens nominations and vetos: Even though Jen was saved by the Power of Veto the three times in a row she was nominated, CBS has confirmed that it doesn’t matter whether it is pre-Veto or post-Veto, if the houseguest is nominated the task is successful. i would like to know where is this information. i want to see it first hand if it did come from cbs not just said it did. theres too much flip flopping about this for me to go by what anyone says anymore. Wiki

64.24.241.24 15:44, 17 August 2007 (UTC) 64.24.241.24 15:44, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree, thats why we use "TBA" until we see the proof, but whoever keeps changing it doesn't seem to understand that - zachinthebox 15:57, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
well theres another AP wiki on here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Brother_8_%28US%29/America%27s_Player so whoever is updated this one maybe they should stick to that one. I have my own on a reality website I keep updated anyway and I have tasks 6,9,12 as TBA and 10 as incomplete since that one wasn't defined by CBS as completed or failed. They only showed Dick saying the catch phrase and everyone else was giving Eric strange looks. I think once Eric is out of the house CBS will tell us what he got or didn't get. hopefully. wiki
Eric has completed more tasks than we think. he just said to the cam. AP just made 30k yo! the woobie task has made eric 30k. so he has completed the nom tasks to date. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsiUxBhQXmM wiki....≤ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.24.242.97 (talk) 12:08, August 20, 2007 (UTC)

veto

What time does the veto ceremoney take place, please let it be around noon. Seth71 13:34, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

takes place between 1-3 PM Pacific Time —TRAiNER4 (talk • contrib) 17:18, 13 August 2007 (UTC)


Power of Veto

Nobody seems to pay attention to the Power of Veto page. I think it would be agreed that we should find a picture of the Veto medallion and place it on that page. I tried, but couldnt find one. Agree/Disagree? There has been this comment on that discussion page since April, with no updates. -- Rjd0060 14:02, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Pre-Aired Information

I'm not exactly sure why I am taking so much hassle over this but here is the problem.

I was under the impression that we would not allow information to be posted about things that have not aired on CBS as of yet. I understand that this is incorrect HOWEVER people keep telling me to read the banner on the top of the page (which obviously I've done a long time ago) and it does say that it may contain "non-definitive" information. Now, it seems to me that revealing

  • Who won the Power of Veto,
  • The fact that they used the Power of Veto to save themselves, and
  • The replacement nominee,

...that is in fact adding DEFINITIVE information, as those above mentioned items are now finalized. Just confused as to where I'm wrong here. I mean, isn't this page supposed to be about Big Brother the television show? If so, wouldn't it make sense that the only information on the page is actually about the television show? -- Rjd0060 23:39, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes and it also states at the VERY top of the article:

{{spoiler-blank|Details unaired on CBS may be included in this article.}} We've discussed this numerous times before, but you were probably not around then. Sorry. - Jeeny Talk 23:49, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes I guess I wasnt around. So just because it has {{spoiler-blank|Details unaired on CBS may be included in this article.}} than the other banner doesnt matter? --Rjd0060 23:52, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

No it does, it's just to cover all sides because of objections to the spoilers. Just a while ago, that banner was removed, but the note stayed. I don't know who put the banner in again. But, having both the banner and note does not negate the other, it is to be informative. There is information that is not aired, and there is non-difinitive information too. Hope that helps. :) - Jeeny Talk 23:57, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Thank you. I appreciate it. Thanks -- Rjd0060 23:59, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

I complained about it too, but I guess it could be used for people who are looking for the information early, those who don't have the live feed or Showtime Too. Seth71 05:13, 14 August 2007 (UTC)


Everyone knows there are spoilers here, so why do you keep coming back, reading them, and then complaining about them ? Why not avoid this site ?

  • I'm not really the one with the problem with it, just getting the info. You might want to re-read this, and maybe understand it a little bit better. - Rjd0060 02:34, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


    • I wasn' trying to single you out, I am saying in general.
        • I for one agree with the poster. It's RIDICULOUS to have these spoilers so prevelant. This article is ABOUT THE SHOW, it's not about the live feeds or the stuff on Showtime. In fact there should be SEPERATE articles for such things. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.96.32.45 (talk) 13:38, August 20, 2007 (UTC)
  • Regardless of whether or not the information is on the page, the sidebar attracts attention easily. It's one thing not to read a paragraph that gives away info, but it's pretty hard not to see the veto sign next to Daniele's name, for example. If spoiler information is going to be on the page, it should be a little more avoidable. 138.88.234.223 21:17, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Voting history notes

Just a couple about the notes under the voting history:

1. Is it necessary to have "America's Player, Eric, will have to vote which HouseGuest to evict by votes from the viewers. However, in order for this to count as a completed task the HouseGuest that America wants Eric to vote for eviction must leave." in notes 2, 4 and 5? It just seems pretty redundant to put it each time. Maybe changing adding it to the top of the article would help, or, better yet, in the America's Player section.
2. It also says "Jameka is not eligible to compete for Head of Household as she agreed to forfeit the next five HoH competitions during the Veto competition on Day 36" on notes 4 and 5. This, again, is redundant, but I also don't see what this has to do with the voting history other than she is unable to compete for HoH which won't allow her to make nominations? I dunno, it just seems like a far stretch to me.

- zachinthebox 19:36, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for noticing that. No it isn't necessary. I had combined/consolidated the same note when it was the same task but on different weeks to reduce the redundancy (I thought it was still that way). Such as note #3, just for example (I don't know what it says at the moment), could be in any week multiple times, but only shows one note in the note section. I don't know who keeps changing it, and adding more. <sigh> Sheesh, and I was just there fixing some wording, and didn't notice the change. <another sigh> I'm not doing it again. lol. I've many serious articles I need to be working on. I've been on this subject too much as it is.- Jeeny Talk 19:49, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Note 2 is basically the America's Player twist. Note 3 is where Eric was nominated to indicate that since he was nominated America would not have a vote that week. I had Note 4 to include Dick's decision on the Veto since a nominee for eviction won the veto and chose to save another houseguest (almost typed housemate) then Note 5 was the same as Note 4 without the Veto part. My reasoning for including Dick's decision about the veto in the article is because that has not happened before with the Veto and is noteworthy just like Marcellas' decision in Season 3 was noteworthy. Also what is wrong with the References section?♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 03:23, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
I have fixed the notes, until we know who is HoH and nominated in Week 7 only Note 4 is there because that is a sure thing. In the event Eric is not nominated or wins HoH we would put Note 2 above Note 4 like this week. In the event he is nominated we would use Note 3 and Note 4 for Week 7. That consolidates the notes plus saves space.♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 03:37, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
And to answer your question about Jameka not being able to compete in the HoH is noteworthy because it is a twist in the normal game and since the US Big Brother includes that kind of information on our Voting History it deserves to be there. If any player is ineligible to compete for HoH except the outgoing HoH then it is noteworthy because that is "Twists to the normal nominations process are noted" so it should be noted.♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 03:40, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Three Revert Rule

Just a reminder to folks new to Wikipedia: Wikipedia is driven by consensus. If you disagree with an edit, discuss it here on the talk page. Repeating the same edit more than three times is a violation of the three revert rule. - fmmarianicolon | Talk 23:19, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Sweet Spyke1077 04:15, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Spelling / Grammar / Punctuation of Common Terms

I think that we should come up with a list here, of common Big Brother terms, and how they should be typed, paying special attention to capitalization. Here's a start:

  • Power of Veto or Power Of Veto or power of veto
  • PoV or POV
  • Head of Household or Head of household
  • HoH or HOH
  • Houseguest(s) or HouseGuest(s)
  • Backdoor(ed, ing) or Back-door(ed, ing)

I know there are many more like this. -- Rjd0060 00:05, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Voting table in separate article.

Can we put the voting table in its own article or put the America's Player tasks in with the Highlights? My reasoning is when you click on "See Note 1" for example in the voting history table it goes to Note 1 in the America's Player table. All the notes does that in the Voting History table. So is it possible we separate the two.♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 03:30, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Why not use letters for one and numbers for the other? Or something like A1, A2, etc. for America's Player and then V1, V2, etc. for Voting history? - zachinthebox 03:34, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Could we do that? I am not very experienced in the whole notes thing but I will try. America's Player should have the A1, A2, etc. for the sake of uniform between the US voting history tables. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 03:42, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Fixed America's Player section thanks zackinthebox. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 03:51, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
On a somewhat related note, it might be worthwhile to create Big Brother 8 (US)/voting history and Big Brother 8 (US)/America's Player. Then we can transclude them with {{/voting history}} and {{/America's Player}} for ease of monitoring edits. --William Graham talk 04:21, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
We don't need two different ones I think. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 04:33, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Well, you would need 2 if you were to transclude them, they'd also need to be templates rather than articles. I'd say there's no real need for them, once the season is over, both tables will be set in stone and require no further changes. Seaserpent85Talk 17:54, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
If someone would like to set that up be my guest. I have no problems with it. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 06:05, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Eviction Votes for Week 6

Earlier, I came to this page to find the potential votes for each eligible person. How did that information get on the page so early? It was four votes Dick and two Dustin. ScottAHudson 19:02, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Must have been pure speculation - nothing is set in stone until they vote tommorow though. Seaserpent85Talk 19:46, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Why Jeeny left

I am interested if anyone knows why Jeeny left Wikipedia all of a sudden. She was a major contributor here. - Spyke1077 04:20, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Don't know but i'll find out. Seth71 05:28, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

I think she left because of me. She thought I vandled her user page. Didn't. I don't have an older sister named Alicia. I'm gonna try to get this problem fixed. Seth71 05:33, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

I take blame because I messed up the notes for the Voting History table. (See discussion above) Because I added some repetitive information. This was before I fixed it so some weeks have two notes to reduce repetitive notes. Like America's Player for example. Note 2 is when we have his vote and Note 3 is when he can't vote. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 06:04, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

It's nothing to do with the BB page at all. It had something to do with racist comments on another article about white people (discussion)(It's a big discussion but if you just search her name you can read most of the things said). - zachinthebox 15:15, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I read most of what she said. It appears she was quite frustrated with some other users' behavior. The discussion was very long, and she was accused of trolling and three-reverting. I think she finally had enough and decided she would retire. - Spyke1077 18:01, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
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