Talk:Bill hopper (furniture)

A fact from Bill hopper (furniture) appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 8 March 2021 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the spaces between the shelves of the United States Senate bill hopper get shorter near the top as so few proposed bills became law?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2021/March. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Bill hopper (furniture).

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Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 03:12, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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... that the spaces between the shelves of the United States Senate bill hopper shorten with height as so few proposed bills became law? Source: "This U.S. Senate bill hopper offers clear evidence of how few bills actually became law. The upper shelves—which represent the final phases of legislative consideration—were built to accommodate the fewest bills." (https://siarchives.si.edu/history/featured-topics/smithson-smithsonian/all-american-compromise From Smithson to Smithsonian: The Birth of an Institution, Smithsonian Institution)

Reviewed: Jibba

Created by No Swan So Fine (talk). Self-nominated at 16:19, 9 January 2021 (UTC).[reply]

I just read through this and several issues seemed apparent:

It's not clearly explained how this basket or box has the shelves to which the hook refers. I still don't understand the construction.
At least one picture is sorely needed. As pictures taken by the US government are commonly PD, this shouldn't difficult to arrange.
It doesn't appear that a hopper is used in the Senate as Bill (United States Congress) says "In the Senate, the bill is placed on the desk of the presiding officer."
What happens in other legislatures such as the individual states and in other countries? A start might be made on addressing this with a See also section with links such as reading_(legislature)#First_reading

So, please flesh the article out to address these points and I'll then take another look. Andrew🐉(talk) 18:56, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Having browsed some pictures, the construction is clearer but there were clearly different pieces of furniture at different times and places. The shelving system pictured here is quite different from the hopper currently used here. Andrew🐉(talk) 19:14, 11 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- I've clarified that it is for congressional use only and added a link to the Westminster system. I think a form must be submitted here for image reproduction to the US House of Representatives, which I shall do. No Swan So Fine (talk) 09:19, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@No Swan So Fine and Andrew Davidson: Any updates on this? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 14:11, 13 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies, I haven't been able to secure a picture of the bill hopper. No Swan So Fine (talk) 09:48, 20 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This is noted. A full review is still needed. @Andrew Davidson: Can you take another look? Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 16:22, 24 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

New enough, long enough, meets guidelines. Adequately cited with inline citations. Unique and interesting topic! Hooks works and article should be ready to go, but if I may suggest the following tweaked version for clarity:

ALT1: ... that the spaces between the shelves of the United States Senate bill hopper get shorter near the top as so few proposed bills became law?

Glorioussandwich (talk) 02:01, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I've added another photo, but both photos in the article now show the House hopper, not the Senate hopper. I'm not sure if that means the hook should be changed to focus more on the House. If you wanted the hook to focus on the Senate hopper, you could potentially use the images found in [1] and [2]. Edge3 (talk) 16:29, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the photo in [3], is it safe to assume that since it is not otherwise credited that it is a work of the U.S. government and thus public domain? Glorioussandwich (talk) 20:39, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Great questions! I did some extra research earlier this afternoon. Yes, I think it's reasonable to assume the work is in the public domain because it's a work of the U.S. government. Additionally, the photo states that it was created circa 1817, so even if we can't prove the photo was taken by a government employee, I think {{PD-US-unpublished}} applies here.

However, I would like to point out that a bill hopper is not used in the Senate in modern times. According to Congress, Senate bills are submitted directly to clerks on the Senate floor, while the House still uses a hopper. This would also explain why it's so difficult to get an image of the Senate hopper; they haven't used one for a long time! Edge3 (talk) 03:35, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, I just read the article again, and I see that it correctly states that the hopper is used only in the House. So the article itself is fine. I just bring it up because the hook seems to imply that the Senate still uses the hopper today. But if you still think the current hook is sufficiently quirky and interesting as-is, then we might be able to proceed. Edge3 (talk) 03:39, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]