Talk:Biodiversity in Israel and Palestine

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The Title[edit]

This article is about wild life. It is not about politics. The article started by the title Biodiversity in Israel Palestine.

But some one re-directed it Biodiversity in Israel

Wild life knows no boundaries, and the wild life in this region is unique.

The piece of land in question has many names and is disputed by two people fighting. some call it Israel, others Palestine, and so on.

So I hope this title will "Holy Land' wil be the least politically charged one and we do not see more re-directs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thameen (talk • contribs) 19:01, 6 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

While I appreciate your attempt to find a compromise title, the term "Biodiversity in the Holy Land" is not standard or used. —Viriditas | Talk 22:23, 7 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I think this article should be split between Biodiversity in Israel, Biodiversity in the West Bank and Biodiversity in Gaza. Today, Palestine is a borderless region whose name has strong political overtones. ←Humus sapiens ну? 23:09, 7 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I would prefer to see one article for each politcal entity by ecoregion. Top article in one example would be Ecoregions of Israel, which can be sourced. Israel is already listed as a member of the following Palearctic ecoregions: Mediterranean forests, woodlands, and shrub terrestrial (Eastern Mediterranean conifer-sclerophyllous-broadleaf forests - Turkey, Jordan, Israel, and Syria [1], Southern Anatolian montane conifer and deciduous forests -Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Israel [2]). The content of this article can be merged into those articles, which will include multiple countries. —Viriditas | Talk 11:00, 8 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You have a relatively new Wikipedian, a Palestinian (now now, stop scowling), who only wanted to do an article on ecology and nature in his country and wished that it not be politicized. He even called it "Israel/Palestine" and not "Palestine" or "Palestine/Israel". I for one hope that there is still a shred of decency left among us older editors who do not need to see everything politicized just for the sake of standing out to look 'authoritative'. Moshe already took out the map of the 'holy land', saying it was contentious, even though nobody disputes that this is the Holy Land. So in short, this wailing about a very nice and non-political article is extremely disappointing to me. The land is too small to have Biodiversity-type articles about every separate political enclave as is being proposed, and the only problem with this article is, in my opinion, unnecessary harassment of the original author of this piece (dare I guess why?). Work on on, add to it, enhance it, but please don't politicize it as that would be disgraceful. Ramallite (talk) 13:57, 8 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry Ramallite, I'll have to respectfully disagree. Whether you don't see the political connotations (so obvious to me and a few others), or this is a case of wishful thinking, I think that lumping them together is wrong. BTW, this new editor's user page is far from being non-political. Let's stop question each other's motives and try to improve WP. ←Humus sapiens ну? 00:24, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I think most people would agree that the politicization of science is a Bad Thing, however the general naming convention for country-specific articles use the form (item) of (country). For example, Category:Ecoregions, Category:Natural history by country, and Category:Biota by country use political and geographical territories to designate and list flora and fauna. The term "Holy Land" is not appropriate in this context. Israel is already sourced and listed as a member of the Palearctic Mediterranean forests, woodlands, and shrub ecoregion, and any discussion of biodiversity in this region should reference the name of the country. —Viriditas | Talk 00:35, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I've moved the article to Biodiversity in Israel and Palestine. The Palestine Wildlife Society [3] has information which may help improve this article. —Viriditas | Talk 01:32, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks all for your contributions. As along as we have Ramallite and ←Humus sapiens here I do not worry. Very great editors, and thank you Viriditas for your improvements and edits on the article.
Yes I'm political. But I do not bring politics to my articles (well, this is the first real article I start). Specially this one where is is no way for politics. My name page is my place. There is no relation between it and my contributions.


To be honest with you I wanted to make an article about wild life in Palestine, or the west bank/gaza, or call it whatever you want. But it does not work practically. because EACH species that lives in "Palestine', lives in "Israel", save some marine species. It is impossible to separate the two when it comes to biodiversity.
So if we have an article called 'biodiversity in Israel", and another one "biodiversity in Palestine", the two articles will be 99.9% identical.
And further more, Yes. The geographical place called Israel/Palestine is a unique ecogeographical place that warrants a special article.
I really wish we do not bring politics here.
I do not see the map problimatic. I did not name the map and left it without internal boundaries. I made it for this article. It is a map that shows the geographic region we talk about.
This is an embryo of a good article. I did spent some real good time on it. I'm an MD and I do not have much time. But I was so eager to start this subject on wiki. I know that Ramallite is a Bilogist, I donno about the others if they are interested in biology. But I hope you all contribute positively to this article and its branches.
Viriditas suggested:" I would prefer to see one article for each politcal entity by ecoregion. ....The content of this article can be merged into those articles, which will include multiple countries." As I said such articles wil be identical to a great extent. We have the same birds, the same flowers, the same plants. that what I gathered through my research prior to writing the article.
I think this article is meant to answer two questions that may be asked by a person living in this geographical region or any other one interested in this area.
1. What is this species called (what is this flower that I saw today on my trip)
2. What species do we have of this kind of genus (what species do we have of wolves, do we have wolves?)
Peace.Shaloom. Salaam. --Thameen 21:12, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was move. Oh, this is going to be fun moving all these articles... -- tariqabjotu 02:30, 16 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

New title[edit]

Requested move[edit]

PageName → Biodiversity in Israel, West Bank, and Gaza Strip — NPOV, there is no such entity as "Palestine" at the moment, but the West Bank and Gaza Strip cover all areas where it might one day be. TewfikTalk 00:30, 11 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Survey[edit]

Add  * '''Support'''  or  * '''Oppose'''  on a new line followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~.

Discussion[edit]

If this article should exists at all, then tell me why. List of biodiversity topics includes only two articles on regional biodiversity: Biodiversity of New Caledonia and Biodiversity of New Zealand. In both cases, articles exist because biodiversity is highly unusual in those places. I am not aware of anything unique about biodiversity in Israel. Beit Or 20:42, 11 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That is an interesting point. Perhaps we should consult someone experienced in this part of Wikipedia. TewfikTalk 07:07, 12 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I am not an expert in Biodiversity, but I hae spent some substantial time in Israel, including some touring. In a country the size of New Jersey you have a climate, terrestrial, biological, and botanical variance that is great. The Golan is volcanic, you have an expansive desert a few miles away from one of the best vinelands in the world in Gush Etzion. Snow-capped mountains and hot beaches only a couple dozen miles away from each other. It also happens to have the lowest point in the world. Some of the highest mountains in the desert are in fact below sea level. Even though it is so tiny, Israel is extremely biodiverse and merits an article on its biodiversity. Valley2city 08:00, 13 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That's all geography, not biodiversity. Beit Or 11:02, 13 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Disputed Territories for cool heads[edit]

Just to cool heads here a little, I think we should change the designation to Disputed Territories and so it won't have either political overtone. We cannot call it Palestine because that term is too loaded an not encyclopedic. Valley2city 18:39, 27 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think the best way to solve this would be to consistency with the page title, ie "Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip." Cheers, TewfikTalk 07:13, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm fine with that, Tewfik. --Valley2city 08:32, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Region not in Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip[edit]

Mount Hermon is not in Israel, the West Bank, or the Gaza Strip. It was presented in the article as if it was in Israel, but the mountain is completely within Syria and Lebanon. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 15:44, 21 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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