Talk:Body dysmorphic disorder/Archive 1

Imagined or exaggerated defect

people who experience body dysmorphic order (also known as dysmorphophobia) become preoccupied with some imagined or exaggerated defect in their appearance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.194.86.150 (talk • contribs) 03:55, December 14, 2004

Yeah, and what a profound comment - by somebody not even signing it. So play elsewhere and come back when you have grown up. -- AlexR 08:06, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Way to simplify a serious and crippling psychological disorder into something as neat and simple as superficiality. Jeff Silvers 05:34, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

I see no problem with his statement. This is not a place for insults. Besides, telling someone to grow up is hypocritical. Darktangent (talk) 02:21, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Non-imagined physical defect?

Is it body dysmorphic disorder if the obsession is with a non imagined physical defect? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.148.69.57 (talk • contribs) 10:07, February 7, 2006

Only if the defect is not significantly noticeable but the affected person wrongly believes himself to be ugly because of it. Jim Michael (talk) 04:19, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Is this why people become transsexuals?

Is this the disorder that leads to people becoming transsexuals? If it is, that probably should be mentioned in the article. xxxyyyzzz 23:05, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

No. It isn't. The article clearly states that it isn't. Dysprosia 23:07, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't say it clearly states it. I found this sentence: "Body dysmorphic disorder is also considered to be different from gender identity disorder and transsexualism, even though the desire to modify one's body is also reflected in people who are judged to have these disorders." buried inside a paragraph of text -- I missed it when I read the article the first time. IMO, the difference between BDD and Gender Identity Disorder should be made more clear.

BTW, the only reason I brought this up at all was because I just saw a TV show (I forgot what it was, sorry) where they explicitly said that Transsexuals suffer from Body dysmorphic disorder. xxxyyyzzz 23:13, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

The diagnostic criteria and characteristics of BDD doesn't quite fit with transsexualism, especially when you consider that some trans people don't go through with any form of "body modification". Also note that "a BDD diagnosis cannot be made if another disorder accounts for the preoccupation with a perceived defect". Perhaps you would be better off reading the transsexualism article for further information. Dysprosia 23:21, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I can't say I have any citations for this but I can assure you from personal experience that not all transsexuals have BDD. Many are comfortable with sex and other forms of intimate contact and do not attempt to hide themselves from others although it does seem like a disproportionate amount do suffer from it. Like I said though, this is only from personal experience, I doubt there's ever been a scientific survey on this subject. 24.80.109.91 (talk) 08:18, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Common locations section seems pointless

The 'Common locations of imagined defects' section seems pretty pointless - it lists nearly every external feature of the human body.--Soban 19:01, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Not indicative of narcissism

Generally speaking, bdd is not indicative of narcissism-almost all sufferers do not love themselves or wish to create this impression, hence the high concordance rate with depression and social anxiety. Most bdd sufferers are also incredibly forgiving of others' physical defects so it cannot convincingly be written off as mere superficiality. i am educated in this field and resent those who quite clearly are not making comments such as these which further the existing stigma.

There has been a link shown between delusional perception of one's appearance and Narcissism, BUT these sufferers have an overly inflated perception of their physical appearance. Their distorted thinking will put them in a positive light eg. a Cerebral Narcissist may believe his head is very large, but feel this is evidence of his vast intellectual capacities- in his eyes a positive attribute . this is not BDD as it does not impair functioning and there must be dissatisfaction with appearance for a diagnosis of BDD to be made.

i think the fact that some BDD sufferers do not consider themselves physically repulsive should also be mentioned in the article.Although rarer, some sufferers can accept that their appearance is normal in the eyes of others, but are so chronically perfectionist that they believe anything below their conception of "beautiful" to be totally unworthy. This variant is harder to cure because the sufferer often has a realistic appraisal of their physical self- it is the value they apply to appearance in general which needs to be radically altered. This is in contrast to the more common variant whereby one views themselves as physically repulsive and wishes to be just 'normal.'

BDD is most commonly associated with a perceived facial deformity. i wouldn't say BDD and eating disorders are totally unrelated. There clearly are parallels eg. low self esteem, a preoccupation with aesthetics, the desire to alter something which need not be altered,a strong delusional component etc.

i think the author of this article has done a pretty good job at putting the main points down succinctly. After all, idea of Wikipedia is to give you a good gist really. You can't expect anything ridiculously in-depth. -- Zoe —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.71.162.221 (talk • contribs) 17:49, August 27, 2006

This article is pathetic

It mixes anorexia and bulimia which are completely unrelated with bdd, muscle dysmorphia which is also a distinct disorder, there is hardly any relevant explanation of it's effect, cause and not even a correct definition. I will begin rewriting this. Editor18 23:45, August 28, 2006

Preoccupation unaccounted for by an eating disorder

I'm a studying psychologist, specializing in "abnormal psychology" and take interest in bdd for reasons I won't disclose here so I will say BDD and eating disorders as far as diagnosis are concerned are unrelated. BDD can only be diagnosed if the patient has a physical preoccupation UNACCOUNTED for by an eating disorder. If there is an eating disorder present than that will be diagnosed as what it is (anorexia, etc), though someone CAN have both BDD and a co-diagnoses of anorexia however those remain as seperate diagnosis.

Logically, yes, there are connections between ED's and BDD as far as low self esteem, however there are more differences than similarities. But since this is encyclopedic I think the references should only contain links to disorders that are directly linked with bdd which ED's are not. BDD can focus on body as well, such as stomach, thighs, etc, and be BDD as long as it isn't accounted for by an eating disorder, I hope that makes sense. I.E. someone may hate his or her stomach, find whatever flaw they do with it but not engage in dieting and thus be diagnosed with bd not anorexia.

And yes you're right, some people with BDD can consider themselves average (the minority) but want to be above, gorgeous and thus feel distressed. I wrote the whole article in basically a night because it was technically empty beforehand so there are many things that can be added. I'll add a paragraph about what you mentioned the minority considering themselves average and being perfectionist (which is a general trait) Editor18 04:45, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I think there was a misunderstanding there. I wasn't referring to the criteria as stated in the DSM-IV-TR.

You're right that a total distinction between BDD and eating disorders is specifically made there.However, there are links in terms of the personality attributes both sets of sufferers tend to possess, e.g sufferers of Body Dysmorphic Disorder and Anorexia both tend to have a heightened preoccupation with aesthetics and they are more likely to be perfectionist in general.

Both disorders tend to have a delusional component,implying that both sets of sufferers have real trouble with accurate perception .

I wasn't suggesting this be added to the article. What i was saying was that there is quite clearly common ground of some kind there- shown by the high co-morbidity rate between the disorders. I recall it as 34% or something similar, but don't have a citation at hand.

You can Google it and see if you want.This high percentage strongly implies that there may be links between the temperaments of both sufferers and causation of both disorders.

The formal distinction between the two disorders is also disputed by some who claim that Anorexia is a form of BDD, albeit one concerned with weight.This initially appears convincing in that Anorexics do have a distorted view of their 'flaw'( weight) and frantically try to rectify this. Not unlike BDD.

However, I personally remain unsure about any merging of disorders. i consider BDD to have a stronger obsessive component than Anorexia- 'BDDers' are more likely to ruminate for instance, and sufferers appear to be even more aesthetically sensitive than Anorexics which provides some differentiation between the two. I am unsure about whether BDD can be placed on the OCD spectrum too. Certainly there are similarities, but there are also key differences. eg. those with OCD are far more likely to comprehend the irrationality of their actions, yet feel compelled to do them anyway, whereas those with BDD generally have less insight.

I am glad someone is taking an interest in this disorder. Studies have shown that sufferers are among the most likely to commit suicide and yet it is often overlooked.

In my opinion, it is one of the most stigmatized and trivialized disorders, even among those within the medical profession.

thanks for reading my earlier comments.84.68.44.24 13:35, 29 August 2006 (UTC) Zoe

That's true. But there are still many behavioral explanations being disputed for anorexia. The importance of control elements. Importance of manipulative elements. Though Freud's theory is pretty much set aside now, that it was the effort for a girl in puberty to slow down the physical changes and thus prevent herself from becoming a real women and carrying those responsibilities it still does coincide with the control and manipulative aspects of anorexia. Anorexics also lack complete of insight which many Bdd'ers do have.

BDD seems to have more obsessive (facial features etc, for hours a day -anorexia also has the feature though it is not central) and compulsive elements (skin picking) there seems to be little value of the control and manipulation theory. Though I don't have the source on me now, there was also a much higher concordance rate found between those that suffer from BDD and take art classes, and those who do not suffer from BDD and take art classes. It's an interesting observation if true, and does outline the idea that people with BDD would be more aesthetically inclined in other walks as life, as well as being often perfectionist as you mentioned in usually more than one aspect of their lives. -which is an obsessive feature.

There are some psychologists who consider BDD more of an anxiety disorder than an OCD one due to some key differences you also mentioned, including a far higher suicide rate for BDD (I've heard up to 24%, however I seriously doubt that number, perhaps for attempts), social anxiety, often more debilitating effects in social functioning, etc, with BDD arousing anxiety in almost all situations when the disorder surfaces (in front of the mirror, having to go to school, etc)

It is very overlooked, and misexplained. People will often, even when knowing of the disorder want to misdiagnose bdd simply because they don't have the tools or experience in treating it, and would rather approach it as OCD, schizophrenia, etc something they are familiar with and can create an explanation and treatment plan for. That's a key issue.

Thanks for the discussion, it's a disorder that doesn't gain enough acknowledgment when it is one of the most debilitating perhaps. Editor18 16:24, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

BDD is often a cause of an eating disorder, so I wouldn't say they are unrelated. I think the main point is that a person with an eating disorder does not automatically have BDD. Darktangent (talk) 02:24, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

My point was that since BDD can often cause eating disorders, they ARE directly related. It is pretty common for articles on Wikipedia to contain links to associated or even similar conditions. I'll go through the article again anyway to see exactly what you're talking about. Darktangent (talk) 22:51, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Re: or alternately may be a part of eating disorders such as anorexia nervosa, bulimia nervosa and compulsive overeating

Is this the line in question? If so, the wording could use changed. I haven't started studying psychology beyond 101, so I generally just use common sense to judge articles. If you have experience in the field and believe the wording needs changed then go for it. Perhaps 'may coexist with' instead of 'may be a part of'. Darktangent (talk) 22:51, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

How can BDD cause eating disorders? I think you are confused as to what BDD actually is. It's not the anorexic looking in the mirror and seeing a larger version of herself - what I describe there is 'body image disturbance'. Likewise, it is impossible for BDD to be a part of eating disorders, as you say. It can co-exist as two seperate diagnoses YES, but it cannot be 2 diagnoses in 1. A person either has BDD and no ED; ED but no BDD; or separate diagnoses of both BDD and an ED. While both disorders can share 'body image disturbance', BDD, by it's very diagnosis definition, cannot exist as 'a part' of an ED. That line should absolutely be edited or removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 1819c (talk • contribs) 16:56, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Cutting

I am unable to find an article in wikipedia on cutting. I wrongly added some relevant lyrics to cutting to this article. Please paste them in the appropriate article. Thanks! Royalbroil 03:23, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Try self-injury

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.199.157.192 (talk • contribs) 05:45, February 25, 2007

Just wondering if someone would... ugh, offer opinions

I was simply wondering if someone thinks I have BDD. Here's why I think I may have it:

1. I think I'm extremely hideous. I can't look in the mirror without picking myself apart. There's certain days I can't shave because I'd most likely attempt to slit my throat for my looks. No matter how many people tell me I'm good-looking, I assume they're lying to be nice.

2. I'm "obsessed" with my collar bones. I'm always feeling them. I'm worried they're sticking out too much.

3. I'm so self-conscious going out in public is stressful to say the least. I get anxious. It feels as if everyone is staring at me, and when people laugh, I think it's because of the way I look. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.34.192.46 (talk • contribs) 19:38, September 27, 2006

yes, this definitely sounds like bdd to me. you should see your doctor. check out bddcentral.com for more help.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.76.83.201 (talk • contribs) 13:53, October 1, 2006

Yes, that sounds very much like bdd. It is relatively unknown and trivialized so you may have to make mention of the disorder yourself if visiting a mental health professional. There are also many sites on the web that may be of help for you. Also, please sign your comments guys Editor18 18:23, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

The only way to be sure if you have BDD is to go to see a licensed and certified psychologist. Please do not go to see a medical doctor. This issue is not medical. Please do not go to see a psychiatrist before you are referred to a psychiatrist by the psychologist as that is the healthiest and most SAFE way of seeking treatment. Psychiatrists do not specialize in psycho-therapy or treating disorders or unhealthy behavior. They are not behavioral specialists. Psychiatrists specialize in the medicine used for the mind. They are needed when medicine is needed. Unless the Psychiatrist has the initials LCP or LCPC (meaning licensed certified) they have not passed the Test given to all Psychologists before the said psychologist is allowed to practice. Therefore going to anyone without a certification and license is like going to a lawyer who has not passed the bar exam. Please do seek attention from someone who has studied enough and passed the tests needed in order to help you. Personally I would hate to feel as you do, and yes it does sound familiar to BDD.. however, you never know until you are seen by a psychologist. They cannot make a judgment either until they have gone through the right process of getting to know you.

Id like to add that Ill pray for you. 63.229.82.34 (talk) 22:34, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Writing a play about BDD

I'm writing a one-act play about a handicap or disability. I would like to write it on BBD (my other option is Alopecia). Does anyone have suggestion, sites, or important info on BBD that would help me?Ladylaughsalot 19:41, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Good looking but desire to look better

This is "original research" and unfit for the article but I thought I'd weigh in for those reading the discussion page.

Regarding the belief of some that they look average, acceptable, or even good looking but desire to look better: my understanding from discussions with a other BDD sufferers is that the self ideal or standard is underwritten by distorted thinking about appearance in general not unlike the other "variant". I put that in scare quotes because the same people will also talk about feeling defective or inferior, and many people who feel hideous and want to look normal also co-exist with an unrealistic ideal about social standing or other value. Appearance is a comparative value and relative comparisons occur within peer groups. I notice many of these types tend to work in an appearance oriented industry like modeling or exotic dancing; it isn't necessarily a desire to look better than, rather a desire to be level with others whom the comparison is applied to.

There are others who are socially isolated and have some odd ideas about appearance because of over-focusing and over internalizing culture or are touchy about a few experiences. Perfectionism about appearance might sound like vanity but it can flow from perfectionism about being accepted. For example, if I'm over obsessive and stress about small things and don't have other events to regulate emotion, one coping strategy is to avoid until conditions seem safe and plan or ruminate about what can be controlled (selective attention and background beliefs elect appearance and it's appealing because it's perceived as something that can be changed). Some seem to have an unrecognized personality problem which is a barrier between them and other people and interpret it into a faulty general belief about what it's like to look a certain way. --anon —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.246.155.49 (talk • contribs) 00:29, July 31, 2007

Alternative causes or criticisms

I'm not entirely sure where to put this, but I was just wondering if anyone has taken a look at this from a perspective that's not thoroughly psychological/biological/etc (though I understand they're merging a great deal).

Is it possible that people who are constantly inundated with images of "perfection" might start to compare themselves and come up with a deficit? Maybe the people who do develop this "disorder" lack the necessary social ties or some other contributing factor that separates them from the rest of the relatively unaffected population. We're constantly looking inside for a neurological answer rather than looking outside. There have got to be studies undertaken from another perspective (sociological, perhaps?) that ought to be included here. 85.74.63.124 (talk) 03:41, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes I agree. However, first a patient must be diagnosed before anyone can find out what the specific causes were to their developing the disorder. Going into the cause of the disorder is of course going to be done by the psychologist. If you want to make a sociological study of our culture and perhaps tv and magazines etc and their affect on people go right ahead, however BDD has existed before mass media. As long as there has been a way to see into a mirror and look at ones-self there have been complaints and issues. The problem is when the complaint is truly something that has no base in reality. The example of anorexia is a wonderful way to clarify that statement. The person looks into the mirror and they see fat when there is none there. Someone with BDD does not see the beauty they have but rather only the defect/defects. Its an old disorder, older than the age of the words to diagnose it. Psychology as a science may be relatively young but the disorders are old as humanity.

63.229.82.34 (talk) 22:34, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Real disfigurement vs imagined?

So what if I am really ugly (by all standards) and also hate myself for this and am furthermore obsessed with my appearance, is it still BDD? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.112.101.195 (talk) 21:05, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes. ""Preoccupation with an imagined defect in appearance. If a slight physical anomaly is present, the person’s concern is markedly excessive."

Note the last part. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.239.84.151 (talk) 23:09, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

No. To point out, "Preoccupation with an imagined defect in appearance. If a slight physical anomaly is present, the person's concern is markedly excessive." (emphasis mine) To my argument, I introduce the Elephant man... he didn't have BDD, he was simply and rightfully upset about his appearance with justification. --Puellanivis (talk) 22:47, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

The million-dollar question is what is considered "slight" and what isn't? For example, say someone was obsessed by the fact that they were losing their hair and that their hair loss was noticeable. Is this considered slight (since there are many bald people and most are still able to function) or is this not considered slight, since it's noticeable? In other words, would bald people, who are not functioning well because of they have lost their hair, be diagnosed with BDD? 86.151.74.65 (talk) 10:29, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Just an idea coming from someone with no qualification on the subject, but maybe a better indicator would be whether the person would judge other people’s appearances, if similar, as harshly. The article gives the impression that someone experiencing BDD is specifically assessing their own appearance / body / body part negatively and the exaggeration isn’t about ugliness -- though almost certainly they are not as ugly as they believe -- but about the importance of ugliness. The article states that ‘ironically’ people may assume BDD is a product of vanity, but I think this is not so ridiculous of a connection to make. That is to say, if you disregard the connotation of vanity indicating egocentricity, vanity means something like conflating personal worth with bodily appearance -- consequently becoming over-concerned with it. Of course when we think of vanity we think of the people who flaunt it because they think they DO measure up, not the people who suffer because they think they don’t. It seems easy to imagine common causes in childhood, because values like vanity (still in the sense above I mean) are usually passed from parents to children, even if magazines and tv and all that don’t help things.--216.15.127.190 (talk) 05:36, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

honestly I'd be careful here with answering yes or no to people asking if they have a specific disorder, even if one of us is a psychologist we already know that we cannot diagnose someone based on what they say in a written paragraph. You must first see that person in therapy and get to know them and then go through the process of trying to diagnose what truly the issue is, sometimes it can be surprising what the real issue is even when it seems certain on the outside that person is suffering from "said disorder" 63.229.82.34 (talk) 22:34, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

All subjective bullshit, this label is also subjective bullshit. There is nothing scientific. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.39.195.128 (talk • contribs) 13:07, October 30, 2009

BDD is not about vanity

A BDD sufferer usually has a definition/image of what they believe to be perfect but they do not judge others as they do themselves.

Here are some thoughts, blogged, from a BDD sufferer:

I am so tired of thinking about how I look to others. For over 20 years I’ve compared my body and my hair and my eyes and my eyelashes and .... to every woman on TV and in magazines and on billboards and on the Internet and ..... What this means is that I think about my imperfect appearance and wish I looked different every day, all day. But that’s not enough self-abuse for me because if the perfect image is not shoved at me where ever I look then I must seek it. The Internet provides everything I need to continue my insane life. My husband doesn’t know what to do or where to look, during certain scenes, while watching TV together because he knows I am worrying about what he’s thinking. We don’t watch movies or TV shows together very often now. I have gradually shut out most of my family and friends and have gone months without speaking to anyone other than my husband. What a waste of a life. I don’t want to think like this! I argue with myself everyday and I always lose. I don’t even know what “normal” people think about all day. What I would give to have one day free of criticism and experience the feeling of contentment.

Sufferer/ December 22, 2008

Unsigned comment on 23:25, December 22, 2008, by User:StunningLies

This is the way my mind works too- an ever downward spiral of anxiety where I hate each and every day. Hate waking up in the morning and sometimes I can't even escape from it in my sleep with anxiety dreams. I believe I will eventually kill myself as it is only going to get much worse. Paxo —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.173.126.46 (talk) 13:48, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

"TV documentary by former BDD sufferer"

Um... what's the meaning of one who suffers from BDD, and how do they become "former sufferers"? I'm working off the presumption that you suffer from it as long as your body doesn't feel right, and after XY surgery, it's ok, and BDD "goes away"... is this really accurate?

How much counseling does a BDD patient require post-surgery?

Are there last issues that remain with the person? I ask, because "Gender Identity Disorder" never really goes away... your history stays with you, etc. I suppose I should read more through the article, maybe this material is explained... if it isn't, perhaps it should be added? --Puellanivis (talk) 22:45, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

To get these questions answered its best to see a psychologist who is certified (LCP, LCPC) to give that type of information to you. If it concerns you then you must know that the individual cannot help themselves psychologically as far as diagnosis and treatment. You can help yourself with the aid of a psychologist. This is because the mind will do all it can to protect itself and it will even protect itself from you (itself or its other contrary thoughts). Psych 101 will tell you that a psychologist is able to diagnose and treat those that are not family, friends, or loved ones and they cannot diagnose and treat themselves. Please take that to heart. It has been researched and proven correct many times and its truly best to seek out someone who can help you learn more and grow with you at your side. I agree that perhaps we should have a section here that deals with the disorders said to be PERHAPS associated with BDD, since it really seems to be an issue. But in my own opinion from what education Ive had BDD has nothing to do with Gender Identity Disorder. They are completely separate. Remember that a person can have more than one disorder, but that does not mean that the two are linked.

63.229.82.34 (talk) 22:34, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Re: If it concerns you then you must know that the individual cannot help themselves psychologically as far as diagnosis and treatment.

I strongly disagree. In cases involving paranoia and delusions where the person is not aware of what is going on, this is true, but I believe that with BDD and many other psychological conditions it is possible, and recommended, for the patient to understand their disorder. Intelligence plays a large part--the more intelligent a person, the easier it is for them to recognize symptoms and characteristics of a mental disorder. Darktangent (talk) 02:47, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Link to obsessive-compulsive disorder

There are definitely thought to exist some similarities between BDD and OCD. BDD sufferers may also be distressed by intrusive thoughts and experience these thoughts with higher frequency. I think this should be included in the article, BDD and OCD certainly can have some things in common. Intrusive thoughts are not mentioned in the BDD article at all, however.

One more thing, one of the symptoms of Body Dysmorphic Disorder is that each time the patient sees themselves in the mirror, the image that they see looks slightly different to them, the image that they see is actually not the reality of what they look like. The same is true for anorexia sufferers who may see somebody who looks obese every time they look in the mirror, but who are probably actually stick thin. I had previously thought that it was this symptom which was referred to as 'Dysmorphia' but according to Wikipedia, Dysmorphia is the same thing as BDD? You might want to check that, and put this symptom into the article somewhere as well. April 09 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.143.159.13 (talk) 17:05, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Legitimate ugliness?

If BDD is an imagined or exaggerated defect that causes social difficulties to the sufferer (simplified) then what do we call people who have legitimate defects that bring about the same kind of social difficulties? Say for example ... Guy No.1 has a slightly large nose that causes distress in him. He walks down the street and literally 'imagines' groups of people laughing at him or staring because he is just self conscious. Whereas guy No.2 really does have a long crow like nose, pitted skin, deep baggy eyes, disproportionate facial features, weak facial muscles, dry scaly skin, and just looks all round ugly. He walks down the street and groups of people really do laugh at him because they find his appearance repulsive, people really do stare at him and slag him out loud because of his looks. If both of these people visit a psychiatrist to find out what's wrong will they both be diagnosed with BDD? My point is this article doesn't separate legitimate cases of ugliness over imagined ugliness. Do BDD sufferers just imagine their defects? Is the elephant man a BDD sufferer? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.41.159.90 (talk) 21:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

My response to (legitimate ugliness) here is that I do not believe that any psychologist would diagnose someone with a legitimate personal feeling about themselves physically with BDD.

The trouble comes when that person actually reveals in psycho-therapy that there is something else wrong all together. Usually people that have one fault that they see in their own eyes, and a history of bad memories and experiences due to what they perceive as that "fault", anyone would know that this person should then (if they so chose) for their own mental health and ease of living as well as pursuit of happiness go ahead and fix the issue.

BDD comes in when that person wants more surgery. When there are other issues suddenly, and more fears come in. That is when the psychologists duty is to provide the best care to their patient by being very sure that the 2nd or 3rd time this person goes in for surgery etc is not because they are beginning the first stages of BDD. There are many ways of making sure of this and a psychologist has been educated in those techniques.

I would definitely go further and say here that the request of those with BDD or other disorders to see a psychiatrist is typical (sadly). Some reasons for this could be that they already see the psychiatrist for their medication for depression or anxiety which would be symptoms of the disorder or stemming from the disorder. Or perhaps that they truly do believe that the said psychiatrist has certification and permission to give out psycho-therapy along with the medication. That would sadly be untrue. What many do not know is that the psychiatrist is a medical doctor and not one who specializes in human behavior or therapy of any sort. Unless you can see that the psychiatrist (on their card) has the mark of certification (such as LCPC LCP- meaning licensed certified..) or ask them to provide some proof that they have certification from the state they are in, they have not passed the certification test that all psychologists must pass in order to Practice.

This is VERY important to note. If they do not have the certification, then going to see that person for psychological therapy is like going to a lawyer who has not passed the BARR exam.

As a student of psychology practically all of my life I am aware of these facts, however most are not. One scary fact is that 60% of children diagnosed by psychiatrists with ADD do not have it. That was discovered in a study.

Back on topic however, someone suffering from any "disorder" does not know that they are suffering from a disorder in their basic mind. That is why they need assistance.

The brain is trying to protect itself and it develops behaviors. The goal of a psychologist is to determine if that behavior is healthy or unhealthy. In psychology there is no such word as crazy and the like, only healthy and unhealthy and that determination is made CASE by CASE and individual by individual. Going to a psychiatrist for therapy or to a therapist (with no LCP LCPC etc) is a dangerous option. One must go to a psychologist who has passed certification.

Once that person is finally in the right hands that is when the psychologist can truly determine if the patients behavior is linked to something else and could lead to body dysmorphic disorder, or if this person is simply doing a bit more than personal opinions would agree with.

Personal opinions do not come into play in psychology. However diagnosis does, and in order to diagnose anything the clinician must first be able to specify why and also be able note a certain number out of the main number of symptoms. If they cannot, then they cannot diagnose.

I wouldn't worry so much about opinion in the doctors office, I would worry about education and if that person was seeing someone who actually is Certified. 63.229.82.34 (talk) 22:34, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

I think that their concerns can be either imagined or real, but in either case are greatly exaggerated to the point of causing harm. Being ugly is not a disorder in itself, but if it causes social isolation and/or other mental issues, a diagnosis of BDD should be considered. Darktangent (talk) 02:20, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Why is it that we are assuming an objective notion of 'ugliness'? Why is a 'slightly larger nose' or a 'long crow like nose' etc etc is automatically equated with ugliness? These are racial assumptions which equate the caucasian small straight nose with beauty and anything else as sub-standard. The whole notion of physical beauty being rigid and objectively consensual, not to mention so highly significant to a person's worth, needs to be deconstructed here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.224.139.50 (talk) 20:16, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Discussion of transexuals doesn't belong here

I'd really like to say that discussion of transsexuals doesn't belong here. Gender is not ugly nor is it something that a person only feels on the outside. Body dysmorphic disorder has nothing to do with gender identity and those that feel they are truly a male spirit or a female spirit in the incorrect genders body.

Also, about Body Dysmorphic Disorder, I was just happy to see anorexia and bulimia mentioned here because maybe someone will get a link to this disorder and perhaps notice that they might have this as well. You never know who is reading these pages and no one seems to know about body dyspmophia / dysmorphic disorder. We should RAISE AWARENESS. Personally on this July the 07th I really would think that on the day of Michael Jacksons funeral we should raise awareness about something that he obviously suffered from. There really is no argument about it. He started when he broke out in acne as a teen, and as you watch him through the years its very obvious to me at least that he did have BDD. He is the most clear case of this disorder (though I believe he had other disorders as well perhaps linked to BDD or stemming from BDD or perhaps PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder) that any human being would have suffered from after the abuse he had as a child from his father. I am worried for his kids and kids around the world that are not only suffering abuse, but they too are developing the disorders of BDD and PTSD as well as depression, anxiety and so forth. If we really want to pull something good out of the death of this star we should raise AWARENESS about these disorders and about abuse and its consequences. (Not that it belongs here but his two children (the oldest) recorded songs and this I would credit to Joe Jackson).

Sticking to the subject here, yes I agree totally that this article needs editing and I hope that those of you who are complaining about a sentence do EDIT the sentence and try it the way you see it. We need to provide accurate information out there because it seems the public now comes here first above another source for information on everything they want to know.]] Body dysmorphia is a very serious illness.

No one wants to be trapped like that in life. And no one wants to end up mutilated by themselves. Plastic surgeons are supposed to say no to those that may have psychological disorders, they are supposed to suggest therapy and counseling with a Certified psychologist (not psychiatrist or therapist). However you can see clearly that there are some who bend the rules way to much in order to make money. We should caution people about surgeons that lack restraint because of their own desires. I think all of these issues could be included in this article. Taking a look at someone that the world seems to truly love (Michael Jackson) is one way for people to see the true harshness of this terrible Disorder. 63.229.82.34 (talk) 22:34, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Toes query

Noticed that "toes" is shown as scoring both 36% and 3%, so something not right there. EdX20 (talk) 22:02, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

No mention of transsexuals?

I've heard the term "gender identity disorder" associated with them. Seems like a not unreasonable see also, at least. Titanium Dragon (talk) 06:46, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

Differentiating between BDD symptoms and real life

I don't think that the article differentiates at all between things that sufferers feel simply because they are suffering from BDD(i.e. direct symptoms of the illness) and thoughts/ underlying beliefs which may be present anyway in the sufferer.

For example, all BDD sufferers will believe they look ugly while they have BDD, because it is impossible to have the illness and yet at the same time be content with one's appearance because extreme dissatisfaction with one's appearance is one of the symptoms of the illness.

However, many BDD sufferers would not have been dissatisfied with their appearance before getting BDD, in other words, BDD does not have to caused by appearance worries at all, but a BDD sufferer will experience appearance worries, because this is a symptom of the illness.

Likewise, the sufferer will undergo severe anxiety while they have BDD, but prior to having BDD they may not have had high anxiety levels at all. I don't think the article shows clearly what is just a symptom of BDD and what is the cause of the BDD.

I hope I have made sense, reply please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.143.155.97 (talk) 22:57, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Preoccupation with others' appearance?

I'm looking for some insight as to whether a preoccupation with other's appearance could be part of BDD. I strongly believe I have BDD from my personal experiences of low self esteem, social awkwardness, and self loathing. I also believe that my preoccupation with other boys' appearances and bodies (I have been overweight for years) led to me becoming homosexual. I'm not a psychologist, so any insight one can provide would be useful. Darktangent (talk) 02:40, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

A second opinon

I am also wondering whether I have BBD Here's why I think I may have it:

1. I think I look unsightly in the mouth area, especially the upper lip as it is very dry due to having an overbite and think that I have a defect in my appearance. I used to suck my thumb well into the late teens until I was 13 years old, hence causing me to have an overbite. I can't look in the mirror, especially in my mouth area. I hate going out as I think that people are staring at me because of my overbite. Some people tell me I'm good-looking, but I assume they're lying to be nice.

2. When I was younger, I was really obsessed with my protruding upper jaw. I wore braces for 2 years, but it just straightened my teeth, but did not align my jaws. I always try to hide my mouth with my hands. I have seen couple of ortodontists, one of them suggested corrective jaw surgery, the rest of them suggested braces. I really wanted to go for the consultation with the dental surgeon regarding the surgery , but my mum did not want me to go for any cosmetic surgery, she saying that it's unnatural and my face will never be the same again. Hence she brushed the advice of having a corrective jaw surgery aside and gave the reason that the ortodontist was young, having not much experience and just wanted to earn her money. By the way, the dental hospital that he suggested is not affilated with him, it was Government-owned. I guess that she strongly opposed the idea of having any face surgery at all as she says I will still think that I am hideous and I would not be satisfied with my appearance even after the surgery. I think that the only way to align my jaw now is through the corrective jaw surgery, but my mum will not sponsor any money for the consultation.

I am feeling very miserable, especially once I am in the public because I feel people are staring at me and sometimes when I am about to walk past someone and when our gazes meet, he or she would turn their heads and pretend to look at something at his/her rear and only turn to look at the front when I have passed them. I think that they feel disgusted by my protruding upper jaw that he purposely look backwards just to avoid my gaze when I pass them.

I have endured this since I was 15, at the age when I was more concerned about my appearance. Actually, I have felt this when I was 12 and I felt the shopkeepers would be rude to me or stare at me for no reason (even though I was only 12!), hence I became very timid even to order food. My parents would always try to force me to order food for myself but because of this, I still was really reluctant.

Now, I am much better, being able to order my own food, but I find people are still rude to me even though I am nice to them? This has caused me lots of emotional pain and misery for the past decade. Even time when I come back from an outing, I would feel really really miserable and bad at myself because the people are rude to me and i would question myself what I have done wrong or whats wrong with my appearance? This bad feelings would be sometimes so intense that I would not be able to do anything for the rest of the day. I would always suck in my lips many times when I am in the public as I am afraid that my upper lip is too dry (because of the overbite), and if I don't, other people who look at me would always suck in their lips, because they have seen my dry upper lip.

3.I'm so self-conscious going out in public is really stressful. At instances, I hide in the public toliets when I feel really stressed. Sometimes, I can even hide in the toliets for 5 hours before I have the courage to go out in public. I find that people are rude to me because I look unsightly and unappealing to them (I am wondering whether it is discrimination against my physical apperance-Lookism). They don't even look me in the eyes when I order food, reason being that I look unsightly to them. I get really angry and upset because that is considered very rude in my culture not to look at someone especially when he is the customer.

4. My parents think that I have a mental disorder and referred me to a psychitrist because that is the norm when they don't know what to do. I saw the psychiatrist for about 3 years and was prescribed with a cocktail of medication. The medication made me feel really weak and tired and I did not really find that it helped me in any way. My parents told me that it will take time for them to take effect, however I have taken them for more than 2 years but it just made me feel weaker. In the 3rd year of taking medication, I fainted suddenly and was in a coma for 3 days. I immediately stopped the medication and told the psychiatrist that the medication and the sessions I had with him was not working at all and wanted to cancel it. He said 'Ok' and these sessions suddenly ended abruptly.

5. This is my 6th year without any medication but I still have the same feelings of misery and people being rude and staring at me. Sometimes, I can't stand it any longer and just want to end it all, but i would always think about my family before doing so. After 2 years of compulsory national service(military), I managed to endure it all without any medication or a doctor's medical certificate, I am starting to doubt do I really have a mental disorder?

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 156.34.192.46 (talk • contribs) 19:38, December, 2010

Wrong external link to BBC documentary

The external link to the BBC Horizon documentary is no good link, because the documentary talks about people with BIID, not BDD. This link should be moved to the wikipedia-article about BIID? BTW, the documentary wrongly names itself "body dysmorhpia" > this isn't the right name for BDD, .. so documentary is in fact alsoo wrong at least about its own title. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.193.10.47 (talk) 23:12, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Body Dysmorphia is indeed one the names associated with this condition Jasonfward (talk) 13:20, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Body modification

Pictures of women proudly waving their naked enlarged breast may have all sorts interesting things that could be said about it, however it does not demonstrate any state of BDD which actually has the suffer seek isolation not exposure. A BDD sufferer may or may not partake in body modification, but this is article is not about body modification or about any subject other than BDD, the picture recently included is in appropriate for this article as it has not fit, is unrelated to BDD Jasonfward (talk) 13:15, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

I disagree but won't press. Article needs photographs. Perhaps you can find one you believe more suitable. Perhaps one of the DSM-V committee?Trilobitealive (talk) 00:41, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

I didn't know there was a wikipedia policy that articles *need* pictures, indeed the only guidance I've read about this (on biogs for living people for instance) says that pictures should be limited and pertinent or excluded alltogether. However, you will find it difficult to illustrate this article, BDD sufferers have a great tendency to refuse to be photographed, and even where they are photographed there is nothing special to see, since the disorder makes the sufferer see things incorrectly, when the reality is they look fine to everyone else. Jasonfward (talk) 09:58, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Recommendations in that regard are pretty obscure. But believe it or not there is actually a task force dedicated to adding images to articles. Wikipedia:WikiProject Images and Media/Illustration taskforce is the link. I agree that BDD sufferers seldom allow photography. And that persons status post extreme body enhancement are arguably not proven to have BDD. And some people who are well photographed, such as trout-pouting actresses whose names we shall not mention out of privacy concerns, do not admit to the diagnosis even when questioned by the media. Perhaps then a double sketch of a normal appearing person,compairing objective and subjective traits?Trilobitealive (talk) 19:11, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Slighty varying self image? Really?

It seems to me that this is a universal human experience, and not restricted to those suffering from BDD. I can see it if it said "extreme variation of self image" or the like, but it doesn't. Of course people sometimes see slightly different things when they look in the mirror. Lighting, sleep, mood, mirror quality... all of these things change reflections slightly... I don't think this is a proper criterion for BDD... does anyone agree/disagree? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.62.201.143 (talk) 18:16, 20 February 2012 (UTC)