Talk:Born This Way (album)/GA1

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GA Review[edit]

Passed. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:25, 13 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: BennyOnTheLoose (talk · contribs) 22:41, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a. (prose, spelling, and grammar):
    b. (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a. (reference section):
    b. (citations to reliable sources):
    c. (OR):
    d. (copyvio and plagiarism):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a. (major aspects):
    b. (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
    a. (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales):
    b. (appropriate use with suitable captions):
  7. Overall:
    Pass/fail:

(Criteria marked are unassessed)

Happy to discuss, or be challenged on, any of my comments. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:24, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Copyvio check

  • I'll review the top few matches from Earwig's Copyvio Detector. Kornhaber (38.7%) - no issues, attributed quotes etc.; Froio (33.3%) - ditto; Capital FM (31.5%) - attributed quotes and "the award for Best Pop Vocal" (OK per WP:LIMITED); Michaels (31.0%) - no issues, attributed quotes etc.; He (Vulture) - no copyvio issues; Pitchfork (28.1%) - no issues. No issues with paraphrasing from these or the other sources I reviewed.

Images

  • Album image has suitable fair use rationale.
  • Other images are CC (or, for the Houston image, PD). All are relevant IMO, and captions and positioning are generally OK. I'm not sure about thee pharsing of "Gaga seeks influence from Whitney Houston"
  • Not a requirement for GA, but consider adding ALT text. (see WP:MOSALT)

Sources

  • How do we know that the Dropbox file for "ARIA Charts – Accreditations – 2011 Albums" (PDF)." is legitimate?
  • Is lenta.ru a suitable source, considering its entry at WP:RSP?
  • It became prohibited to use this source starting from March 12, 2014. I think as long as we are only using for chart purpose, it is fine to keep it. GagaNutellatalk 00:18, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Metro is "generally unreliable" at WP:RSP. I think it's acceptable for what it's used for here, but a better source would be preferable.
Done. GagaNutellatalk 00:18, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • International Business Times is another "generally unreliable" source. What makes it suitable here?
Done. GagaNutellatalk 00:18, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • WP:RSP says "Amazon is a reliable source for basic information about a work (such as release date, ISBN, etc.), although it is unnecessary to cite Amazon when the work itself may serve as a source for that information" So no need to change those references, but you could consider an alternative. (Similarly for HMV and Spotify)
  • Daily Record, although not listed on the WP:RSP page, is generally frowned on, but it's only used here for music ratings so I think is OK.
  • "The 20 best albums of 2011 – dailyrecord Administrator". - remove " – dailyrecord Administrator"
Done. GagaNutellatalk 00:18, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Japanese album certifications – Lady Gaga – Born This Way" (in Japanese). Recording Industry Association of Japan. Select 2011年11月 on the drop-down menu - missing access date
Done. GagaNutellatalk 00:18, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Singapore album certifications – Lady Gaga". Recording Industry Association Singapore - missing access date
Done. GagaNutellatalk 00:18, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I couldn't see a consensus on the reliability of Christian Post at discussion at RSN, so should be OK.

Background and recording

  • Gaga described them as yin and yang because of their contrasting styles and concepts - optionally, you could add something brief about what the contrasts were.
  • I do not think this is really necessary. The article is already too long. GagaNutellatalk 22:10, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Gaga disclosed that she was working on a new album, saying that she had written most of the songs for the proposed album - consider rewording to reove the repetiton of "album"
  • in the midst of The Monster Ball Tour - consider adding start and end dates of the tour

Writing and composition

  • I've made quite a few comments about attributing views to the person (or if they aren't known, the source) expressing them, where they aren't straightforward descriptions. We can't rely on readers looking at the citation to know who is making these claims/observations etc. (If it's Gaga herself that's being quoted about comparisons with genres/artists or about influences then that probably doesnt need extra attribution, but I haven't looked at every source to see whether that's the case.)
  • Spot check on The song's lyrics are about being betrayed as well as "honoring your darkness in order to bring yourself into the light," according to Gaga - no issues
  • a prominent member of the E Street Band - his membership of the band was mentioned just a couple of lines previously. Should be just "Clemons" rather than including his first name.
  • she was mostly inspired by Madonna,[27][28] Whitney Houston,[19][28][29] and Bruce Springsteen;[19][25][29][30] seems a bit of citation overkill. If you want to keep them al the emphasise the "in several interviews" point then optionally you could used WP:CITEBUNDLE for the four after Springsteen.
  • "anthemic style melodies with really sledge-hammering dance beats." should be attributed (to the named source)
  • The song's sound has been compared to that of 1980s pop and glam metal artists, including Bon Jovi, Pat Benatar and Bonnie Tyler. should probably be attributed.
  • Compared to Madonna's "Express Yourself", the song features Euro disco beats. doesn't quite make sense to me. Addiing who compared them would probably work, otherwise it looks like an incomplete sentence.
  • The song has been compared to the work of German electronic band Kraftwerk. again, should be attributed.
  • and it has been compared to the work of Judy Garland another comment that should be attributed.
  • Gaga claiming that she sees influence from French chanson singer Édith Piaf - I'm not sure that this accurately represents "when I sing it I see Edith Piaf in a spotlight with an old microphone" from the source.
  • It definitely does. It is like when she mentions Whitney during the Grammys, for example. Gaga doesn't need to say the word "influenced", she can mean it in different ways. That's gaga. GagaNutellatalk 01:00, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • artists like Bruce Springsteen, Iron Maiden - remove "Bruce"
  • Queen guitarist Brian May has already been introduced so just "May" ("Queen guitarist May" would be OK
  • incorporate disco[51] and Europop.[58] Refs should be placed after adjacent punctuation (MOS:CITEPUNCT)
  • The song's melody has drawn comparisons to Madonna and electroclash artist Miss Kittin. should be attributed.
  • "plucked strings" and "filthy beats" either rephrase or attribute.
  • Its disco beat has been compared to the music of Donna Summer should be attributed
  • influences of heavy metal music have been found within its composition. should be attributed
  • it has been noted to have Bruce Springsteen influences, as well as powerful drums and synths. should be attributed
  • I'm not keen on the phrases electropop and techno tendencies and dance-pop, electronic rock and synthpop tendencies, but won't insist that they are changed.

Release and promotion

  • "nude from the waist down, with her hair blowing about, and sporting a jacket with the name of the album emblazoned in what looks like bedazzled jewels. - either rephrase or attribute
  • Spot check on Prior to the release of Born This Way, the contents of the album were leaked online on May 18, 2011. Due to a violation of copyright law, it was later removed. - not all verified by the source. Author is missing from the citation.
  • Spot check on "Lady Gaga Reveals 'Born This Way' Album Art –". AOL. - isn't the source PopEater rather than AOL? Author missing.
  • the eponymous lead single - is "eponymous" the right word? I didn't get that from the sources cited.
  • Eponymous is an adjective that refers to the person, place, or thing that something else is named after. I don't think this word needs to be supported by a source. GagaNutellatalk 22:42, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Described as a "magical message", needs atrribution
  • [98][99][100][101] - optionally, you could use WP:CITEBUNDLE
  • and was noted for its references to the work of... should be attributed
  • Critics reacted positively to "Judas" only a single citation follows, and that doesn't refer to multiple critics, so maybe move the citation next to [111] and [112]
  • reaching in the top ten of twenty countries - I'd suggest deleting "in"
  • a motorcycle gang (the Twelve Apostles) - maybe add somehting like "representing"? Optionally one "and" could be removed from the sentence (and tells ... and ends with)
  • ["The Edge of Glory"] was praised by many critics, - not supported by the single citation
  • with scenes featuring Clemons, as well (in his final appearance before he died). - could be better phrased, I think.
  • It features Yüyi, Gaga's mermaid alter ego, Jo Calderone, Gaga's male alter ego, and Gaga playing on a piano in the middle of a corn field - lacking a citation
  • the fifth (and at the time final) single from Born This Way - why include "(and at the time final)"?
  • Because until 2022, MTN was the final single, then "Bloody Mary" went viral and became the sixth single. GagaNutellatalk 22:42, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Maybe consider slightly trimming the singles section; it feels to have slightly too much weight in the article. But that's only a suggestion, not a requirement.
  • Live performances also seems to be a bit overly detailed, but again I'm not requiring a change for GA.
  • You know, BTW is known for being a complete era, with many singles and performances. Maybe because of it, it's fine to keep the sections like that. About the singles, I tried to inform about the charts, critical reception, and music video. GagaNutellatalk 22:43, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Critical reception

  • I'd suggest varying the format from the "X said Y" which recurs throughout. Also, consider paraphrasing some of the quotes.

Commercial performance

  • at a price of 99 cents[223] (at a loss of over $3 million)[224] Refs should be placed after adjacent punctuation (MOS:CITEPUNCT)
  • As of 2021, Born This Way has more than... As its now 2023, maybe "had more than"; or use a newer source

Accolades

  • It was Gaga's only entry on the list. is lacking a source.

Impact

  • I'm not convinced that thes the quote from Rafael Bautista deserves the prominence it's given (WP:DUE)
  • for the past decade - probably be a bit more specific, to futureproof this statement
  • A Vulture article opined - the author, R.S. He should be mentioned.
  • I am not sure about it, who is R.S.? This might get readers confused. GagaNutellatalk 22:42, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • after Joe Biden, the president of the United States, signed the Respect for Marriage Act into law at the White House, "Born This Way" started playing immediately - I'd reword this as it almost reads like it played spontaneously, when surely it was planned.
  • Several religious groups have condemned the album for its incorporation of several religious icons - reword to remove repetitoon of "several"
  • This ban lasted up until June 9.[290][292][293] seems like citation overkill.

Track listing

  • I'll AGF on the main track listing as I don't have the liner notes. All good on a couple of spot checks on other editions.

Personnel

  • I'll AGF on the personnel listing, as I don't have the liner notes.

Charts

Certifications and sales

  • Chile - the citation "Universal: Visita Lady Gaga" (PDF). Sony Music. Archived (PDF) from the original on September 24, 2015. Retrieved August 29, 2019. seems incomplete.
  • The publication title (Prensario Mmusica & Video, I think) should be added, so should the date. Is Sony Music really the publisher? BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:27, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Spot check on India - OK.
  • Spot check on Italy - OK.
  • Spot check on Singapore - source doesn't verify that 5,000 certified units/sales is the citerion for a gold disc, as far as I can see.
  • Spot check on Sweden - source doesn't verify that 40,000 certified units/sales is the citerion for a platinum disc, as far as I can see.

Born This Way The Tenth Anniversary

  • Looks OK.

Release history

  • Three spot checks all had issues:
    • I can't see the release date for the Colombian release verified at the stated source.
    • I can't see the releease date for the German release verified at the stated source.
    • I can't see the release date and labels for the Indian release verified at the stated source.
  • Done. GagaNutellatalk 23:09, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • A further spot check, on the US release date for the 10th Anniversary edition also had issues - I couldn;t see the label (Interscope) or the release date verified by the shop.ladygaga.com source. (If it's in the pictures, it's too small for me to read.) I'll check the other entries in the table later. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:36, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Further spot check resutls indicated in the table below. Crosses indicate unverified (and a link with no info). I've tried to run IABot on the page to get more archives, but without success. Please could you check through the rest of the table against sources too? If the info is too difficult to source then consider trimming, or even removing, this table. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:30, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Release dates and formats for Born This Way
Region Date Format(s) Edition(s) Label Ref.
Various May 23, 2011☒N
☒N
checkY
  • Standard
  • deluxe
☒N
[1]
India Standard (digipak)☒N UniversalcheckY [2]
United States June 7, 2011☒N
  • CD
  • LP
  • digital download
checkY 		Fan packagecheckY
  • Streamline☒N
  • InterscopecheckY
  • KonLive☒N
 [3]☒N
[4]
United Kingdom November 21, 2011☒N CD + DVD☒N Box set (deluxe)☒N PolydorcheckY [5]
  • Done. Hello, BennyOnTheLoose. I moved this section to the article's body explaining the different versions and deleted it. I think it's fine now! GagaNutellatalk 00:44, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Notes/References/External links

  • The notes are a description of images rather than from a source, but as this is exactly what would be in ALT text, seems like it should be fine.

Infobox and lead

  • No immediate issues with the lead, but I'll have another look after comments above have been responded to.

General

  • I made some script-suggested amendments. Hopefully these are uncontroversial but feel free to revert any.
  • Quite a few duplicate links that I think should be removed per WP:DUPLINKS: Fernando Garibay, house, Pat Benatar, Alexander McQueen, Judas, Mary Magdalene (x2), The Monster Ball Tour, 53rd Annual Grammy Awards, 2011 MTV Video Music Awards, The Fame, The Fame Monster, Whitney Houston, Madonna, 54th Annual Grammy Awards, Best Pop Solo Performance, Lady Gaga
  • Thanks for your work on the article, GagaNutella. I'll place it on hold, but I might have some more to say later. Happy to keep the review open for longer than a week if required. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:05, 4 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I also want to thank you for this amazing review, BennyOnTheLoose. I think I will need more than a week, let's see it. By the way, I have already fixed some points. GagaNutellatalk 22:44, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hi, BennyOnTheLoose. Sorry for the delay, but I'm really busy at work. I think I have fixed everything. This article is very big, so let me know if you want to mention anything else. GagaNutellatalk 23:12, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

New comments

Thanks for the further responses, GagaNutella. I've now had a closer look at the lead and have a couple of comments about that. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:15, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • MOS:LEADLENGTH, which says that "Most Featured Articles have a lead length of about three paragraphs, containing 10 to 15 sentences, or about 300 words total." This suggests to me that the current lead, at 550 words, is a bit long. I won't require the lead to be cut, but I'll suggest that where "Born This Way" became the 1,000th song to reach the number one spot since the inauguration of the chart in 1958. and A promotional single from the album, "Hair", also managed to chart in sixteen countries, peaking at number twelve in the United States. The fifth single, "Marry the Night", charted within the top-thirty in the United States. could be removed.
  • Done. But I left the line about "MTN" because that's the only mention about it. GagaNutellatalk 01:13, 13 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • As of 2021, it has - change has to "had" as 2021 has passed. (Also in the body text, which has "As of May 2021, Born This Way has been...)
  • Gaga has performed songs from the album on different occasions, such as the 53rd Annual Grammy Awards and the 2011 MTV Video Music Awards = probably better as something like "Gaga performed songs from the album at the 53rd Annual Grammy Awards and the 2011 MTV Video Music Awards"
  • On May 28, 2021, Gaga announced Born This Way The Tenth Anniversary, a special anniversary release of the album featuring six renditions of Gaga's songs by artists of the LGBT community. - I think it would be better to have the release rather than annoucement details in the lead.
  • Thanks GagaNutella. I'm satisfied that the article meets the GA criteria, so I'm passing it. Nice work, and thanks for your attention to all the points I raised. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:24, 13 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Lady Gaga – Born This Way". Amazon. Retrieved May 23, 2011.
  2. ^ "Born This Way (Indian Edition)". Universal Music. Archived from the original on November 17, 2011. Retrieved November 8, 2011.
  3. ^ "Born This Way – Special edition fan package". Target. Archived from the original on August 12, 2018. Retrieved May 24, 2011.
  4. ^ "Born This Way Pre-orders". Lady Gaga Store. Archived from the original on May 22, 2011. Retrieved May 24, 2011.
  5. ^ "Born This Way – The Collection [CD+DVD]". Amazon. Retrieved March 11, 2011.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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