Talk:Braco (faith healer)

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Claims of no claims[edit]

That section didn't seem NPOV to me... it read: Braco's claim is disingenuous because ______.

The way it read, it was as if their statement is true, instead of their perspective

Therefore, I changed it to say, SI takes issue with Braco'c claim, and just let their quote do the talking.


Great article BTW, very well sourced!

peace, Sethie (talk) 22:27, 17 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The word "healer" in lead and article[edit]

This is about my reversion here, restoring the word "healer" to various places it had been deleted from. It is true that Braco hasn't called himself a healer for 10 years, however, as the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry writes, his promoters and staff do, which is much the same thing. More importantly, the reliable sources we are writing the article from use that word to explain what he does: Washington Post; Maryland Gazette; Fox Oregon. When someone calls himself an X, but reliable sources call them a Y, we generally go with the Y in brief; then explain in more detail in the article. See for example our articles on various criminals and con men, which come straight out and call them that, even though they never used the word about themselves. --GRuban (talk) 08:02, 13 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

But we are dealing with Biography of Living People restrictions. The sole fact that because people call someone a doctor, a democrat, or a scam artist, does not in itself allow us to describe the person as a doctor or democrat or a scam artist in their article. Just because someone calls someone a healer in the lede also does not allow us to call that person a healer. And in this case, since we are under the restrictions of WP:BLP, and since he specifically calls out the fact that he does not call himself a healer, says to me we should not call him one either. Rjmail (talk) 14:33, 13 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it does. Not just "people", of course, but cast iron reliable sources ... which we have. WP:BLPREMOVE merely says to "Remove immediately any contentious material about a living person that is unsourced or poorly sourced", which this isn't, this is very well sourced, not just to the above three, but basically every source we have about the subject. As for what he says, that he hasn't publically said anything about what he does in the last 10 years, so if we were only restricted to that, we couldn't write any article. That's what he specifically calls out, not just that he doesn't call himself a healer, but that he doesn't call it anything, he lets his fans and staff and other reliable sources do it. And they call it healing. --GRuban (talk) 15:23, 13 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
People claiming someone is a space alien does not mean we can state in wikipedia that the person is a space alien. People claiming a person is a healer does not mean we can state that either. Rjmail (talk) 21:22, 13 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It's just a profession, it doesn't mean he actually has mystical powers. See Category:Healers which there are plenty of others like him in. Similarly, because we put entries in Category:Gods doesn't mean we actually believe they're divine. --GRuban (talk) 21:35, 13 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I think we should say he is a professional starer in the lede, forget healer.Sgerbic (talk) 03:05, 14 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Why? Would your reasoning also apply to most or all of the others in Category:Healers? --GRuban (talk) 10:35, 14 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting conundrum - on many of the pages for psychic mediums it says something like "self-described..." but in this case even he does not describe it that way. Allecher (talk) 13:17, 14 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. And how would most people define Healer? Does it have a wide meaning, or is it restricted to alternative medicine? If it has a wide meaning why is it redirecting to alternative medicine? There are nested issues here. I'd recommend that whoever knows how, to challenge that redirection. Maybe once the meaning of the word Healer is resolved, the lede here will be easier to resolve too. Rjmail (talk) 23:47, 14 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The "self-described" part is a red herring. We don't describe people the way they describe themselves, we describe people the way reliable sources describe them. Consider, for example, the various people describing themselves as Jesus Christ reborn (David Koresh and his various rivals comes to mind, but I'm pretty sure there are others currently living), but described by reliable sources as leaders of minor cults - which do we describe them as? What's more, since he doesn't describe what he does in any way, describing him as a starer isn't any closer to what he says than describing him as a healer. The body of the article goes into detail into what he does, but for a one word description, healer (in the alternative medicine sense) is what our reliable sources use. --GRuban (talk) 00:05, 15 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]


"Doctor"[edit]

I think it is noteworthy that she has a Ph.D in Semantics, not a MD or someone in any of the hard sciences. I propose we remove the Doctor and just have her name, or clarify what her Ph.D. is in. Sethie (talk) 19:00, 13 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Done --GRuban (talk) 19:04, 13 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
) That was quick. Sethie (talk) 19:06, 13 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

quoted: what her Ph.D. is in; et al.[edit]

Above, you can read it. But isn't her but his. Braco, man not woman. Ok?. And previously too:

Reliable sources?[edit]

I am wondering about this article from a Croatian newspaper: http://dalje.com/en-croatia/mysterious-braco-asks-only-for-flowers-in-return/206804

I am also wondering about the Book 21 Days with Braco.

I would only like to use them for any noncontroversial facts.... I believe both would be sufficient. For example- to use the Croatian newspaper to talk about his birthday celebrations, and the fact that he has a center in Croatia... pretty simple facts.

My understanding of reliable sources is that the less controversial or "out there" an idea is, the less rigid are the rules around what are acceptable sources.

peace, Sethie (talk) 19:18, 13 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Seems reasonable. Dalje.com seems like an unaffiliated Croatian news portal, and can be treated like most of the newspapers used here, though that specific article linked to seems to be very friendly to him. 21 Days with Braco, is essentially a self-published book, so should be guided by WP:SELFPUB. --GRuban (talk) 19:43, 13 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
My feeling too was it was a bit... friendly, but I think it is good enough for a few facts. Thanks for the link on self-pub- I mostly want to use it for basic biographical stuff.... your feedback is of course welcome. Sethie (talk) 00:03, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Doesn't feel right[edit]

A lot of this article is about what he doesn't do. Does he have parents? Was he involved in any controversies? There is a lot missing from here, but what I learned from this article is that Braco:

  • does not claim to be miraculous
  • does not want people to worship him
  • is totally not after your money (guys, there are videos out there)

I don't mean to attack this article or the person whom this article is written about (nor the author, who may have taken a significant amount of effort to come up with the references and information). I simply think that there's a little bit of meat missing, and the tone of the article is ever-so-slightly off. Meşteşugarul - U 09:17, 16 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

We can only repeat what others report. This is what we (OK, I) found. If you find the information you feel is missing - and I agree, it would be useful - please add it. --GRuban (talk) 14:14, 16 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I know my comment was a little harsh, but I am happy your reply was at least a hundred times more polite than mine. Yes, I may do some weekend research on this soon and see if I can scrape up something useful. :) Meşteşugarul - U 16:12, 16 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The Death of Ivica Prokic[edit]

I added a clarification about the death of Braco's "mentor" Ivica Prokic. Ever since Prokic first died, there has been suspicion about the cause. There is no direct proof that Braco murdered Prokic, but the fact that the circumstances were so bizarre and that so many people believe Braco was involved should at least be acknowledged in this wiki. I think my edit was appropriate. Bzzzing (talk) 19:43, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism on this page incoming[edit]

Vandalism making fun of Braco posted on a subreddit (/r/h3h3productions) after a h3h3productions video about Braco.


Be warned, or could temporarily lock the page — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.121.128.18 (talk) 02:45, 16 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 16 May 2016[edit]

There are some facts about Braco that has been left out and I respectfully want to change it like the face of him being a suspect of a crime which is not true and yes he is accused of killing unborn children. Commentquette (talk) 17:20, 16 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done This is not the right page to request additional user rights.
If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 17:32, 16 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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