Talk:Buckskin (leather)

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Comments[edit]

Good additions. Anyone willing to talk about brain-tanning (the Native American process of conditioning buckskin with animal brains, in which the softening ingredient is lecithin)? I don't know enough about it.

But I would disagree with the change in origin; the OED defines buckskin as the "skin of a buck" with citations back to 1433.

A term bucking orbuck-washing is also very old, with OED citations to 1483, with the meaning "The operation of steeping or boiling yarn, cloth, or clothes in a lye of wood ashes, etc., in the old process of bleaching, or in buck-washing; the quantity of clothes, etc. so treated; app. also the lye used in the process. (Cf. blacking.)"

The two may have fallen together in the modern term bucking (or even more likely, bucking may be a backformation buckskin) - but I am not sure we're justified in saying the term does not derive from buck.

Will hold off a rewrite for further comments (and further digging in American dictionaries). PKM 19:35, 16 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Steps[edit]

I added what I know of the steps used in preparation of Buckskin. Please help, by correcting and expanding upon this start.

Split?[edit]

There already is a disambiguation page: Buckskin (Disambiguation). We just need to edit this page to refer to it and take the irrelevant material out. PKM 17:23, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Disagreement[edit]

I think whats on the page is wrong, but I didnt want to change it because it kind of sounds like they knew what they were talking about. I've made buckskin using both the wet-scrape and dry-scrape methods, learned at primitive skills gatherings, from friends who tan professionally and from Matt Richards book "Deerskins into Buckskins". I dont think the person who posted this method has used it, because it would result in a brittle stiff alkaline hide. I may be wrong, but I think if you tried to stretch the hide with the lye in it you'd be chemically burned (I've seen chemical burns from the bucking process). However, if you washed the lye away, the brains would be washed away also.

Heres how I've been taught using the wet-scrape method: Remove the flesh from the hide with a scraper. The "membrane" layer on the flesh side may be scraped off now or after graining. Next the "grain" layer of the epidermis is scraped off, removing the hair and follicles. This is made easier by "bucking", especially if the hide is not fresh. Soaking in the lye solution (bucking solution) swells the grain layer, making it easier to remove and see that it has been removed. The lye is then washed out with water, until the hide is neutralized. If it is not removed it can cause chemical burns. Next the hide is "brained", by soaking in warm diluted brains until it has saturated the hide. Brains are used because they are an emulsified (water soluble) fat. Any emulsified fat may be used including egg yolks. The hide is then actively stretched and worked in all directions until dry. This ensures that the oil fully lubricates all the fiber structure of the hide. The hide should now be quite soft and totally flexible like cloth. If it gets wet at this point it reverts to rawhide, and must be brained and streched again. Next, smoking the hide until the smoke has saturated the hide will lock the non water-soluble oils in the smoke into the water-soluble oil which is in the hide. It may now be washed in soap without damage.

I havent really edited Wikipedia before and dont know the ettiquite. Should I erase the parts of the article I dont think are right? If I leave it up there it will be contradictory and confusing. Please tell me what I should do. Acorneater 09:18, 7 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am posting this under "Disagreement", as that is, I think, the most appropriate place for my comment. I notice that this subject has surfaced before - but it needs to be addressed plainly and clearly, if possible. Buckskin is not the skin of a buck. It refers to bucked deer hide. Any sex deer can provide the skin to make buckskin, at least in current usage. I don't know of any source for this short of going and asking a tannery. Historically, there might have been a differentiation, as I am quite sure some novels have referred to doeskin being used for finer, softer, clothing items. I'm thinking of Cooper as the author, but I don't have a reference at hand. However, that buckskin refers to the bucking process, rather than the skin of a buck, is validated by websites offering instructions on hide tanning. I do now know how we can include an reference based on what is essentially unpublished expertise. I think most websites are more similar to the content in the past of letters, rather than published material. And how would one validate expertise in such an esoteric topic?

I will not edit at this time - this is certainly not a hot topic that demands immediate correction. I will keep it in the back of my mind for future reference, should I run across related information. However, I felt making the comment was necessary, as in this case, relying on the dictionary may lead to an incorrect definition. It would be preferable if a "current source" (i.e. current at the time of the writing of the source material) were found, something that discussed "current practice". Mbuell72 (talk) 19:03, 17 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

response to disagreement[edit]

Please edit away! I put the initial Steps section in, but I've never done this personally. I specifically request all more knowledgeable persons to correct, expand, and clarify the start I placed there. Please cut, paste, delete, overwrite, etc. Wikipedia maintains copies of the original elsewhere, so don't hesitate to remove it all and start over. The object of the exercise is simply to get the best possible information out there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.37.59.70 (talk) 00:33, 26 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Deerskin[edit]

Why does deerskin redirect to leather, not here? 202.123.130.53 (talk) 02:45, 26 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure. Possible because deer skin can be tanned into leather using other methods. But let's be honest, the terms buckskin and deerskin are synonyms in this use. I'm going to change the redirect to point to here. oknazevad (talk) 01:12, 4 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]