Talk:Caló language

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Spain

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Romani people

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Calé in Portugal[edit]

I think this article is not fully correct because "calé" is also spoken in Portugal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.241.83.148 (talk) 09:58, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Jargon or dialect?[edit]

Is this a jargon or a dialect? The article is not clear and may be incorrect.22:33, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Example[edit]

The example is not politically correct, as it suggest that a product was hidden from officers because it was stolen. I suggest it to be changed to something more neutral.

Move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Closed based on the discussion in the following section which I read as saying withdrawn and rethink the best solution. Vegaswikian (talk) 19:20, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Caló language (Spanish Romani) → Caló language – Caló language is a mixed language that encompasses Spanish Caló, Portuguese Calão, Catalan Caló, Brazilian Calão and Basque Caló (Erromintxela). Spanish Romani/Spanish Caló is just the major variety of the whole Caló language in Iberia.

I request to move Caló language (Spanish romani) to "Caló language" for the following reason:

We don't need separate pages for every Romance Caló variety, such as Portuguese Calão (short article) or Catalan Caló (which I redirected to Caló language). We certainly can cover them in separate sections, instead of having multiple individual pages with almost no info.

Erromintxela is the only Iberian Caló variety that should keep its own page (info is very dense, plus it is the only non-Romance variety of Caló language, therefore lexicon differs greatly from that of Spanish, Catalan & Portuguese Caló/Calão). Jɑυмe (xarrades) 16:53, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Merger proposal[edit]

I have redirected Catalan Caló to Caló language. I suggest to blend Portuguese Calão with Caló language. See talk:Portuguese Calão. Jɑυмe (xarrades) 16:53, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Whoa, I think I'll revert that for now. Last time I looked, at least Catalan and Spanish Caló looked different enough to me to warrant separate pages, being based on Catalan rather than Spanish. Why do you think they should be merged? Or rather, do you have a source that says they're the same? Akerbeltz (talk) 19:01, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Right it would seem there wasn't a page at Catalan Calò yet anyway so no harm done so far. I'll try and dig up my source (I have too many books...) but I don't think we should merge. Akerbeltz (talk) 19:04, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Lexically (regarding Caló roots) they are not so different, a clear difference is the pronunciation: Catalan Caló (as Portuguese Calão) has kept voiced sibilants (/z/, /ʒ/), whereas in Spanish Caló (as in Castilian language) most of these voiced consonants were lost. IMO we should merge them (at least for now), since we don't have here that much info about Catalan & Portuguese Caló/Calão (Portuguese Calão is a very short article, and we don't have yet a Catalan Caló).

Ethnologue list them all as "Caló language", with several varieties.

So, I don't really see any reason to have all Iberian Caló varietes split (besides "Erromintxela"). Another way could be to fill the Caló language article with common features to all Iberian Caló varieties (including Erromintxela), so it doesn't link only to "Spanish Caló". What do you think? Jɑυмe (xarrades) 19:29, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think Ethnologue is shaky on Romani and Para-Romani, they used to have Erromintxela and Caló under the same ISO code, remember? I want to ponder this a bit more before I decide what I think - especially since I can't locate my sources - gimme a day or two? Akerbeltz (talk) 21:00, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That's ok, shall we revert -and postpone- the renaming and the merger? Jɑυмe (xarrades) 21:04, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You're probably right, we'd be better off with a good page covering iberian/catalan/br caló for now. If we get THAT much material or if it becomes obvious the difference is much great than anticipated, we can always rethink. Akerbeltz (talk) 10:09, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Merged. — kwami (talk) 10:54, 27 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Spanish words not caló[edit]

The RAE [1] says "chusma" is of Genoese origin, bujarra/bujarrón of italian/latin origin, garito of French origin. GS3 (talk) 00:30, 1 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed potra from Spanish, since Diccionario Crítico Etimológico Hispánico links it to potro and mentions no Caló hypothesis. I am tempted to remove it from Catalan, but it is mentioned in the reference. Can anyone check a Catalan etymological dictionary? -- Error (talk) 23:24, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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External links modified[edit]

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400,000 native speakers in Brazil[edit]

Very dubious. Unless anyone disagrees I'm removing this. Cristodelosgitanos (talk) 14:13, 1 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Cristodelosgitanos: To be honest I doubt the 400,000 figure too, however, it does seem to come from a reliable source. Ethnologue is considered generally reliable and cites Stan Anonby[2] 2014 as the source of this claim. Brazil does have a Romani population of upwards of 800,000 so it may be plausible. Additionally, other sources I have come across say there are only 10,000 Caló Speakers in Brazil. The 2003 International Encyclopedia of Linguistics from Oxford University Press, 2015 Pidgins, Creoles and Mixed Languages[[3](here they cite Lewis et al. 2014 as their source) and the 2005 Elsevier Encyclopedia of Language and Linguistics [4] all say only 10,000 speakers in Brazil. I think these sources are reasonably reliable and the Lewis source comes from the same time as the Anonby source. It would probably be best to say between 10,000-400,000 or keep 10,000 in the infobox and say certain estimates cite up to 400,000 speakers in Brazil in the body.TagaworShah (talk) 01:11, 2 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

TagaworShah There is a chance Calo means something different in Brazil. This is the case in Mexico. https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cal%C3%B3_(M%C3%A9xico) Cristodelosgitanos (talk) 16:23, 2 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Amieva[edit]

I removed from the article:

Instituto Cervantes 2015, El caso del caló

since it was not actually supporting any text. It may be useful, though. --Error (talk) 23:30, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]