Talk:Caradog Jones

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles

Climbing Low‑importance

	Climbing portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Climbing, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Climbing on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ClimbingWikipedia:WikiProject ClimbingTemplate:WikiProject ClimbingClimbing articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.

Wales Mid‑importance

	Wales portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Wales, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Wales on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WalesWikipedia:WikiProject WalesTemplate:WikiProject WalesWales articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Delete? Not significant.[edit]

This is puff.... and clearly authored by the individual.

There is nothing of interest/significance. The "first welshman"??! Wales is only 3m people in a world of 7.6bn and the ascent wasn't anything new. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.99.32.87 (talk) 00:26, 5 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I am the subject of this article and this is my very first intervention whatsoever.[edit]

I did not write the original nor was the author known to me. After its creation it has been vandalized a number of times, particularly the edit of 5 March 2018. That malicious edit (large deletions) arose purely from the authors personal political disagreement with myself over the totally unrelated discussion about the reorganization of the British Mountaineering Council. The whole original article and the remaining fragments are a mess, beginning with the incorrect spelling of my name, the wrong date of birth and the assertion that we were guided on Everest when in fact we made a rare unguided ascent as part of a larger expedition. I would be most grateful if it could be restored and corrected, particularly as it is often used as a source of biographical information.

I have created a directory of background documents here hoping this may be of use

BackgroundDocs

This request for help from administrators has been answered. If you need more help or have additional questions, please reapply the {{admin help}} template, or contact the responding user(s) directly on their own user talk page.

Pleased to be of further assistance in sorting the mess out if anyone wants to take it on or someone in authority can advise me how best to proceed! Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikididit (talk • contribs)

Firstly, I am inclined to believe @Wikididit: when they say they didn't write it, given it was created 14 years ago by an editor (@Hogyn Lleol:, pinged just to see if they maintain any interest at this late date) who is still active.

Anyway, I had a look at the 2018 removals. While the edit summaries are rather simplistic - only a fraction of the removed content could legitimately claim to be removing hyperbolic language, the large majority of it was insufficiently sourced under modern requirements - using primary, or non-reliable/non-independent, sources. As such, I won't just revert it back to that form.

As a note, editors are very unlikely to follow a blind link to a google drive - and, in any case, editors are going to need secondary sources (newspapers, books, etc - a TV programme may be suitable, depending on its nature) that are reliable and independent (which also rules out interviews). if you've got details for them, especially URLs if existing, but publisher, title, date etc if not is of more use.

If there's a source that gives your correct name and DOB, that would be something I can do for you right now, but for other changes, I can instead run you through how to make edit requests and the best means of doing so, if that is of interest. Nosebagbear (talk) 14:31, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. Given that I've been pinged regarding this page, I'll state what I know. I originally created this article in November 2007 having heard Caradog Jones giving an interview on Radio Cymru, and I realised that there was no Wikipedia article on him. I knew of him, having an interest in climbing myself, but have no connection with him whatsoever, so had to research him totally from scratch. All content added by me at that time (Nov/Dec 2007) derived from existing published material, though as has been pointed out, 14 years ago there was not the same demand as today for in-line citations; nevertheless, every paragraph carried a citation. I largely moved on after that, and I don't know anything about any subsequent additions or deletions. Although I'm still active on Wikipedia, I don't spend much time at all on it these days. Hogyn Lleol (talk) 09:12, 11 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Notability[edit]

Notability is very thin here. He is listed in blogs and records as being on a team that climbed Everest, but very little evidence of any real notability (e.g. almost no WP:SIGCOV). It seems like an Editor in 2018 trimmed a lot of unreferenced material, which caused some disruption (see above), but what remains of this article is still largely unreferenced (as there is so little quality RS on this subject). His climbing career is long-over, so little evidence of this being expanded. Unfortunately being the 724th climber of Everest has not attracted notability, nor being the first Welsh person. But that is where we are. 78.18.228.191 (talk) 16:31, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also, for some reason, he was confused with D. Caradog Jones, the statistician, on Wikidata, giving the incorrect impression that he was a WP:AUTHOR. 78.18.228.191 (talk) 16:33, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, was able to find a full piece on him from the British Mountaineering Council and the BBC News. Nothing else of quality but more borderline now. 78.18.228.191 (talk) 22:09, 17 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi thanks for sorting out the Wikipedia entry about myself. I received an automatic alert. I appreciate your efforts as it has been a bit of a dog's dinner and, being the subject, something I have mixed feelings about! I have never edited it myself but note that it mentions some obscure stuff whilst leaving out more notable things and has errors. Editors also seem to be worried about verifiable sources. With those things in mind here are a few links to reliable sources covering expeditions to the greater ranges: https://www.alpinejournal.org.uk/cgi-bin/search.cgi?zoom_sort=0&zoom_xml=0&zoom_query=%22Crag+Jones%22&zoom_per_page=100&zoom_and=1

On the Everest front it was the 5th British ascent of the N.Ridge and unguided.

I also presented several television series and programs on other climbing and mountaineering expeditions for S4C in Wales. I don't know if those count as verifiable sources? I also have numerous links to magazine and newspaper articles for rock and ice climbing activities etc. If any of this is of interest you can always contact me. All the best, Caradoc 'Crag' Jones. PS It was news to me that my "climbing career was long over"! That will amuse my climbing partners. I can assure you I am still very actively climbing both in the UK and further afield. Wikididit (talk) 14:14, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]