Talk:Carnegie Mellon University/Archive 1

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Photos

Does anyone have a good picture of the stereotypical across-the-Cut view, or Hamerschlag-across-the-Mall?

Hey, I have a decent digital camera. If you can give me direction on what you'd like in a picture (e.g. where to stand, what angle you want), I'll take a few shots for the article. Improv 12:58, 10 May 2004 (UTC)

If you could take a picture of the Fence, that would be awesome. Actually, I could probably do it myself, too, although my camera isn't quite so good. Do you happen to have any Buggy pictures?
I have movies, but no buggy pictures. Argh. I'll try to take a good picture of the fence though. You'd think with all the geeks on wikipedia, there'd be more of us taking pictures of everything in sight... Improv 18:43, 10 May 2004 (UTC)

Also, more info (and pictures?) regarding CMU traditions would be nice. --FleaPlus 19:55, 8 May 2004 (UTC)

WikiProject Universities

As the Wikipedia:WikiProject Universities stabilizes, we may want to follow their template more.

Additionally, there's some random facts here which should probably be incorporated: http://www.cmu.edu/enrollment/admission/map/campus.html

Does anyone have a version of the CMU seal which isn't a grainy jpeg?

--FleaPlus 20:57, 9 May 2004 (UTC)

Well there's an ok gif in the bottom right corner of the bookstore's website, but I think that's moving in the wrong direction. The official one you've got there now is good enough.
I really like the idea of a common university template, but the preexistance of the "view down the cut" makes the top of the page look crowded. I'm going to take a run at trying to make it look better tomorrow afternoon if nobody beats me to it. --Caliper 06:03, 10 May 2004 (UTC)
Yeah, I agree about the "cut view" image making things look crowded. I think Jiang and I were both simultaneously trying to find a good place to put that image earlier, but to no avail. I won't have time to do any edits before tomorrow, so have at it, and good luck. ;) --FleaPlus 09:07, 10 May 2004 (UTC)

Alright, I think it looks a bit better now. I've moved the chart to the top of the page from where it was below the introduction. I know this isn't how it is on other university pages, but CMU's introduction is significantly longer than the others. Putting it below just looked wierd. I also took out the bolded "Carnegie Mellon University" at the top of the chart, since it appeared right beside the bolded "Carnegie Mellon University" at the beginning of the article. Finally, I moved the image of the cut down below the chart. It is no longer beside the reference to it in the "Campus" section of the article, but we can hopefully lengthen that section to bring it down to the image. Leaving the image higher up is ugly because it gets in the way of the chart and the introduction. --Caliper 22:18, 10 May 2004 (UTC)

Bagpipes

Is CMU really the only university in the world offering bagpiping as a major? I definately remember being told it was the only one in North America, but I'd be surprised if there wasn't a single university in, say, Scotland, that had babpiping majors. --User:Caliper (forgot to sign it)

Whoops! You're probably right -- I've changed it. --FleaPlus 23:36, 11 May 2004 (UTC)

Carnival

Hey folks... Just discovering the joys of Wikipedia and thought I'd chime in with some more information on Carnival. Do we need the subheadings under Midway or do you think we can get rid of them? --Bcordes 15:46, 9 June 2004 (UTC)

As long as there's so little underneath the headings, you can probably get rid of them. I'm unlinking the headings, and creating a "See also:" at the bottom of each section you've done it to in order to put it more in line with other Wikipedia articles. --Caliper 16:43, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Done, and corrected "Funnelcake" which is evidently two words. Who knew? Somebody should tell APhiO. *grin* --Bcordes 17:53, Jun 9, 2004 (UTC)

What exactly is the "dividing line" between Squirrel Hill and Oakland, anyways? --NeuronExMachina 23:32, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

According to the city of Pittsburgh website, the dividing line is along Neville Avenue/Boundary Road. In other words, the bridge on Forbes between South Craig Street and Morewood Avenue is half-way into each neighborhood. --147.72.111.58 19:22, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The mobot subsection is inexplicably dropped between the subsections on Midway and Buggy, and is also poorly written. (As is the subsection on the Robotics club; I wonder if there's a conection...) --147.72.111.58 19:22, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Student organizations

I made some cleanup on Student organizations to clean up the following things about KGB:

  • Removed contrary to public opinion, not encyclopedic.
  • Removed link to CtFwS, not encyclopedic.
  • Redirected link from non-existent Wikipedia entry to actual KGB website. Note that the link is correct, but cmukgb.org appears to be down at the moment. I imagine that this is only temporary.

-- Vesta 22:42, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

    • I wouldn't necessarily agree that Capture the Flag with Stuff isn't encyclopedic, but I certainly agree that there isn't currently an article about it. I would be interested to see it go through VfD. -- Creidieki 11:57, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • Update: Buoren recently added an external link to a web site describing Capture the Flag with Stuff, then later removed it, noting this discussion in his edit summary. This discussion related to an internal link to Capture the Flag with Stuff. I replaced the external link, because I think it is appropriate. -- Creidieki 22:58, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Carnegie Mellon in fiction

I heard that a l33t hacker dude from the movie "The Core" was supposed to be from Carnegie Mellon. He apparently asks for payment in the form of Xena tapes and Pop Tarts. Can anybody confirm this? --NeuronExMachina 21:52, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)

CMU name

Anon user, please stop removing notice of the CMU name conflict with Central Michigan. I notice you've also been tweaking their page and the disambig page with a very point of view perspective. Not that I should have to make this argument, but I'm another Carnegie-Mellon person, and it's not cool that we be seen as self-satisfied punks. In any case, it's not good for the encyclopedia to take this stuff away. --Improv 15:04, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Please don't think I'm trying to add fuel to the fire, here, but Carnegie Mellon did in fact lose a trademark court battle with Central Michigan over the use of 'CMU', and as such no longer uses it anywhere in their literature. Not that this has stopped 98% of the student body from calling it CMU anyway. I agree that the link to Central Michigan should stay, and added a note about the court battle to the introduction. --Bcordes 21:47, Oct 11, 2004 (UTC)
This is Carnegie Mellon University's official policy regarding the use of its name:
When referring to Carnegie Mellon in text, use "Carnegie Mellon University" for your first mention. All subsequent mentions should be stated as "Carnegie Mellon. ... NEVER use the acronym "CMU" (or "CM") in printed materials. It is counterproductive to use an acronym that is not recognized by audiences outside the university community. [1]

CMU is an unofficial acronym for Carnegie Mellon University. One the school has lost to Central Michigan. The article should not use CMU to describe anything about Carnegie Mellon, unless it's in the name of an organization. We need to make clear when we list CMU as something people call Carnegie Mellon that it is unofficial and unsanctioned by the college. I tried to pick the least wordy phrase I could come up with - but we can't say "Carnegie Mellon University - or CMU". I refer to it as CMU often too - but we should not on Wikipedia. [2] --Matt 11:37, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

I can't help but notice that, amusingly, the document you just linked to is on the Carnegie Mellon website — www.cmu.edu. Nandesuka 12:00, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
OK then let's just rip it out totally. That phrase doesn't really serve any purpose anyway, except to provoke debate. Qleem 19:51, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
Agreed. I also probably shouldn't have removed this from the talk page when I cleaned it up a couple months ago - this discussion should probably remain on the talk page while people still call Carnegie Mellon CMU --Matt 20:59, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
"Also referred to as CMU", is a fact, regardless of copyright or trademarks. It is referred to as CMU, and thus it belongs in this encyclopedia. When Wikipedia becomes a platform for knowledge authorized by trademark and copyright, it becomes worthless -- WP exists to keep facts, not the wishes of CMich or CMU. (period). --

List of Carnegie Mellon University people?

What do people think about moving the list of notable students, alumni, and faculty to a separate writeup as I've done for Case Western Reserve University (see List of Case Western Reserve University people)? Either way seems to be OK, just thought I'd suggest it, as many other universities are doing the same (Princeton, Harvard, MIT, etc). (forgot to sign at 2005-05-24T1828-0400) - Mark McCartney (talk) 02:02, 2005 May 25 (UTC)

  • There's a category showing similar writeups of people at Category:Lists of people by university affiliation. Not quite sure how to link to that. - Mark McCartney (talk) 02:02, 2005 May 25 (UTC)
  • Done. Let me know if there are any objections. - Mark McCartney (talk) 18:17, 2005 Jun 15 (UTC)

Carnegie Mellon School of Drama

What is the relationship between this place and the Carnegie Mellon School of Drama? Kappa 04:43, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The Drama school is part of the University. Should link off from the CMU article.


Carnegie Mellon and the School of Drama

I have a lot of juicy and practical info about Carnegie Mellon University and their drama department. I publish guidebooks for over 200 universities in the U.S., here's two quotes from actual students there...

“I believe it was Playboy who ranked CMU as one of the top ten ugliest campuses, but if you manage to get into the drama department, you’ll find many hotties awaiting your arrival.”

“In fact, the school of drama is in the top three of all theater programs in the United States and is also the oldest drama degree-granting program.”

from the College Prowler Guidebook to Carnegie Mellon University

JFC vs. Student Senate funding

The way this is written currently makes it sound like $30,000 is all student orgs get in funding. Since it is more like $700,000 from the JFC this might want to be changed.

Student groups receives almost one million dollars from JFC funding, a bit more than $700,000. --BenjaminTsai Talk 07:23, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Singapore Students' Association

There's been some revision wars with the entry about the Singapore Students' Association. To address this, is this organization notable enough to include? Personally, I'm of the opinion that it is not. There are hundreds of organizations on campus and I think only the ones with more history and perhaps bigger impact on campus merit an entry. Comments? Dan Granahan 00:10, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

I reverted the deletions because they were all done by people without usernames, IIRC. I honestly am not sure about the impact of these groups, but judging by web presence, it seems as though by the criteria to eliminate SSA, Vermillion ought to be eliminated as well - I can't easily tell how many members they have though. I would suggest that these groups be listed without a blurb, or perhaps listed just as an external link. Or, is there a link to a page with a list of student groups? Linking to that page would be helpful. - McCart42 (talk) 16:38, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
I removed SSA and Vermillion since they didn't seem notable or historic enough. A separate page with a complete list of organizations seems like the best idea if people don't want their organization left out. Anyone up for making this? I sure don't feel like it. --Dan Granahan 18:44, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

SCS "first computer science school"?

In the introductory paragraph, the article claims that "CMU houses the first computer science school and the first drama school in the nation." Is there any information to substantiate the claim that CMU does house the first computer science school? According to the computer science article, the first CS department in the US was founded at Purdue about 2 years before the formation of the CS department here at CMU, while the "first college entirely devoted to computer science" was founded at Northeastern in 1980, still before when the department was transformed into a "school". --BenjaminTsai 07:03, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

CMU is not the first CS school in the nation.
CMU - department in 1965, school in 1988 - http://www.cs.cmu.edu/about/mission/
Purdue - department in October 1962 - http://www.cs.purdue.edu/history/history.html
Boston U - school in 1982 - http://www.ccs.neu.edu/undergraduate/index.html

Removed material: Turned down offers to join Ivy League

I removed the following sentence from the article introduction. It is an unsubstantiated claim, and I have been unable to repudiate it from my research. I am highly suspicious of this claim, since it frankly sounds like gossip. Please readd this information only with reputable references noted. -- Creidieki 21:35, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

  • It is reported that the university has, on multiple occasions, turned down offers to join the Ivy League.
It is unsubstantiated gossip. Rutgers turned down an invitation. Rutgers, Army, and Navy were once rivals with the Ivy League schools before the conference was formalized. Also, CMU is a Division III school; it would have to file an application to jump to Division I, go through a probationary period and evaluations with the NCAA before it can join the Ivy League.
Rutgers never got an invitation either, obviously. It's a public mega-university that is not remotely academically compatible with the Ivy League. Omnibus 05:27, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Rutgers wasn't always a large state school. It was founded as the sister school of Columbia (Queen's and King's colleges, respectively) and remained a small private school up until the 1940s. Still has athletic rivalries with Princeton and Columbia in soccer, field hockey and some other sports. But financially, it was always in the shadow of the Ivies.

Battle of the Jaywalk All Stars / Jeopardy

Is she for real? On September 22, 2005, a History and Policy student named Stephanie appeared on the "Jaywalking All-Stars" segment of The Tonight Show with Jay Leno. She's scheduled to appear again on September 23, 2005.

Note: She, of course, was just acting. It was TV.

Also on TV, Carnegie Mellon junior ECE major Kermin Elliott Fleming won the 2004 Jeopardy College Championship.

  • Kermin's final wager was 1337. And he's from Kentucky. And he lives in Webster Hall. I only write this because I feel important, since my friend is his roommate.

Guest Speakers

Various authors, activists, scholars, politicians, business leaders, and other notable people have given speeches at Carnegie Mellon over the years. Among them:

Wireless

"The campus was the first educational institution in the world to be completely covered by a wireless network."

Probably true, but not proven. Buena Vista University and Drexel University claim to be the first completely wireless campuses. Carnegie Mellon does not make this claim. Buena Vista, Drexel, and CMU completed campus-wide coverage by the fall of 2000. However, Drexel did not make their dormitories accessible before making their claim. So CMU most likely was ahead of Drexel despite Drexel's (arguably misleading) claim. CMU's Wireless Andrew covered its campus by the time it completed a major upgrade in August 2000. Initial research and experimentation by CMU began in 1994, even before WiFi standards were developed.

Some elementary schools, high schools, private schools, etc. had complete wireless networks before Carnegie Mellon did. (Look at the wording of the original statement. It should mention "post-secondary.")

128.2.161.190

Do people feel that the changes made by 128.2.161.190 (I can confirm it's a static CMU IP, DGFTEGUOY.RES.cmu.edu, but can't link it to an individual at CMU) were reasonable?

[3]

This individual seems to have permuted bits of the introduction in apparently random ways, and removed several large organizations which they apparently felt were not "notable" enough for listing. In particular (and this is what caused me to examine hir edits in the first place), they removed the KGB from the list, even as there was discussion active on the talk page about the section's content; this leads me to believe they in no way had consensus before removing those sections. I'm not going to just revert the edits, I don't want a war, but I'd like to know what people think. Glenn Willen (Talk) 06:18, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

  • I've replaced the content. I prefer not to speculate on their motivations for removing organizations. Feel free to revert such removals in the future. Material which is too detailed for an article can be moved to a subarticle. Material which should not be in any article (nonverifiable, etc.) should be moved to the Talk page, with a clear explanation of why the material is inappropriate. -- Creidieki 01:12, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Greece campus??

Do we have a campus in Greece? [4] If we do that would be the first I've heard of it... but I was tempted to revert the Australia campus until I found out it was actually true. Edit was from a CMU IP, so I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt, for the moment. User:Glenn Willen (Talk) 00:34, 24 December 2005 (UTC)


Pittsburgh Universities template

Do we really want to put the Pittsburgh Universities template at the bottom of the the Carnegie Mellon page? It's an eyesore, contributes no information for people interested in reading about Carnegie Mellon, and does not appear on any other non-Pittsburgh major university pages I've visisted. --BenjaminTsai 20:34, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

I think it looks fairly ridiculous. Omnibus 05:23, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
I developed the Pittsburgh Universities box . . . if you wish to submit proposals for its streamlining I'm all for it, possibly just majors to majors, smallers to smallers, but I feel that the Pittsburgh box is much more neccessary then the "conference" box . . . Tartans deal more with the city of Pittsburgh and Pitt, Duquesne, and Carlow students then they do with "conference" schools. The Pittsburgh box should be visible, if not I see no need for a conference box, Carnegie Mellon is not a "sports" school on the national scene it adds nothing to people trying to read about Carnegie Mellon. Knowing that Pittsburgh has a wealth of university students and the cooperative nature between Pitt and CMU is much more relevant then a sports conference. Ideas about how to better streamline the box are welcomed but the box is much much more relevant then linking to a school that competes in lacrosse with the Tartans. Marketdiamond 06:00, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
The issue is that the template is huge, and the yellow is really glaring. Plus, Carnegie Mellon is a national university - it relates more to MIT more than Duff's Business Institute. I argue that the Carnegie Mellon article is more a destination article than one would surf through looking at Pittsburgh colleges. If we want to say Carnegie Mellon works with Pitt and Duquesne, that should be a feature in the article, instead of adding a huge Pittsburgh Universities box at the bottom --Matt 20:19, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
I recently readded it (without checking if such a discussion existed), because I found such information useful. I found it in University of Pittsburgh, when I was looking at other schools in Pittsburgh, and I would not have had to look at all (through Pittsburgh etc.) it had been here originally. But yes, the colour could be changed. -- Rmrfstar 20:05, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
Check out template:Colleges and universities in metropolitan Boston. I think it does a good job with putting 25 Universities in a small box while being smaller and more in line with the color themes of Wikipedia. I'd be alright with a box like that for major & minor schools in Pittsburgh. --Matt 06:52, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Too many Marketing Types...

Even academia seems to be infested with the smarmy creatures these days... so they've now decreed that the Corporate Image of Carnegie Mellon (which used to have a hyphen in it, by the way, until a previous corporate edict) demands that people not refer to it as CMU, like they have been doing for decades. This announcement, of course, is posted in a Web page that's within the domain name cmu.edu, by the way. *Dan T.* 20:41, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

It may be annoying, but take a look at CMU (disambiguation). Central Michigan University seems to have prior claim to use of "CMU" so I think Carnegie Mellon's use of it has more to do with legal reasons than marketing purposes. But the fact that there are other "CMUs" out there, it just makes sense anyway to not use it when promoting the school. Agerard 22:43, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

People also do get genuinely confused within the United States between Central Michigan and Carnegie Mellon. Central Michigan is five to six times bigger than Carnegie Mellon, participates in NCAA Division I-A, and uses the "CMU" acronym extensively in its own marketing and promotional material. --BenjaminTsai 23:30, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

...but Carnegie Mellon got the cmu.edu domain name anyway. *Dan T.* 23:46, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Bagpiping frequency

Eggster made a change that says bagpiping is an 'almost daily' event at Carnegie Mellon. I heard it a few times a semester at most, so I'd argue that it's frequent, not 'almost daily'. --Matt 17:36, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Maybe things have changed since I graduated in 2001, but when I was there, it was definitely an almost daily occurrence. I had a work study job in Warner and heard them practicing right outside the building almost every day I was there. --Agerard 08:01, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

I believe that the best thing to do is leave it as 'frequently' because the frequency with which one can hear them varies by location, season, etc. Also it might give the impression that one is hearing the bagpipes perform instead of practice. I believe the structure required to give it more clarity is more awkward than it is worth. --Matt 15:16, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Mascot

The official Carnegie Mellon identity page says "From the informal mascot, the Scottie dog". I would say this should be the source - though in other places, The Tartan is listed - but nothing in such an official or vetted place. I say we leave it as Scottie Dog --Matt 04:36, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

I disgree on this one, I wish I had a better link but Carnegie Mellon's Qatar admissions materials refers to the mascot as the Tartan. Given how often I've heard that during my years, I'm going to go with it. Bugg42 00:43, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
From The Word (Student Affairs' guide book to student life) "The squad also includes the Scottie Dog, Carnegie Mellon’s mascot." --Matt 01:37, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
The Tartan "Snapshots from the slopes. The ski season turned out to be challenging and unpredictable, highlighted by an appearance of the Tartans’ mascot, the Scottie Dog." (Page 11)
The Carnegie Pulse " Carnegie Mellon's mascot, the Scottie Dog, put in his two cents by grabbing a pen and paper: "
There's a difference between the team name and the mascot sometimes - and this is one of those times. --Matt 15:58, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Here's a picture of Scottie Dog at the 2005 Homecoming football game (pic). (Source: this blog entry.) - Slo-mo 07:23, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

As of right now, there is no official mascot [5], although people are definitely hard at work trying to establish one. [6] *shrug* So I added a tag of "unofficial" to the Scottie Dog entry. -Fuzzy 19:52, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Saw that the other day, meant to update the article. Thanks for doing this --Matt 23:02, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Carnegie Mellon West

There is a new west coast campus in Mountain View, CA. Is anyone planning on adding a section for this? I think at least a link should be added to their website: link

There's a mention of the Silicon Valley campus with a link to Carnegie Mellon University (West) in the article - maybe a section would be appropriate, but it is mentioned, and a stub exists. I think both should be expanded. --Matt 06:29, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Association of Independent Technological Universities template

Querying "Association of Independent Technological Universities" site:cmu.edu on Google gives no results - it seems like such a minor thing that it doesn't seem important in Carnegie Mellon's article. I move to remove it remove it - what do others think? (Actually, searching around more for this, I get almost no information on this organization. I don't think it's worth including.) --Matt 06:26, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

subtrivial trivia

I have removed a list of subtrivial trivia such as "In a 1999 episode (Lovers' Walk, Season 3, Episode 8) of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Joyce (Buffy's mother) says to Buffy, Carnegie Mellon has a wonderful design curriculum." and "In The West Wing episode "Eppur Si Muove" (Season Five), Ellie Bartlet's diplomas can be found on a wall; the bottom one is a B.S. from Carnegie Mellon." in an article about a university. To me that seems like the sort of outrageous stuff someone would make up to parody Wikipedia. Such inclusions in serious articles are completely and totally inappropriate, and they reduces the credibility of the project overall. Build a Carnegie Mellon University in popular culture if you must, but don't put material like that in the article. --Gmaxwell 18:43, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

  • I don't really care enough to revert any more, but I'd like to state for the record that I disagree with you. I ask that you consider the possibility that the Wikipedia community might not agree with you in all cases on what Wikipedia is or is not, especially given that the section you object to has been in the article for a year and a half, and you're the only person (as far as I've seen) who has seen fit to try to remove it in that time (and were immediately reverted by two diffferent people, one being me). I can cite several other examples of articles (two on prominent universities and one other) with "in fiction" sections, but frankly I'm hesitant to give you the opportunity to go remove those. User:Glenn Willen (Talk) 16:22, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
    • I have reinserted the references in popular culture. They reflect the outside world's portrayal of Carnegie Mellon and its reputation, thus inclusion is justified. A few items have been deleted. I deleted the manga reference because many can argue that manga is not "popular" (as in "popular culture"). I deleted the Chasing Amy reference because it was not included in the final cut of the film. Hopefully others will view this as a fair compromise. Any further deletions of this section may result in a request for administrative review. I assert that the section is verifiable and worthy of inclusion. - Slo-mo 23:20, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
      • Moved to its own article. Case closed. --Matt 23:33, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
        • "University X in fiction/literature or popular culture" sections are found in several university-related articles on the Wikipedia, e.g. the Harvard, Cambridge, Yale, Princeton, Berkeley, and Oxford articles. Since the wiki-community seems to think such a section does not belong in the CMU page, I wonder if the same should apply also to other university-related pages.
It might be a good idea to bring that topic up on those pages. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 01:38, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup

I think the trivia people are driving at the root issue: the article is too big, and every organization with someone who knows how to edit wikipedia has an entry on the main page. I spent a very involved 4 years at Carnegie Mellon and I haven't heard of the debate team or Awareness of Roots in Chinese Culture club.

I believe that the article should be cleaned up. Organizations should go in their own article. I don't think misc.market needs that much detail. Movies filmed at Carnegie Mellon should be in its own category or its own article.

I'll try and clean it up this weekend if I can, but the article is in serious need of help. --Matt 18:32, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

I am pretty sure the student organizations should be either heavily gutted, or split into its own article. I'm not convinced that the debate team, society of hispanic engineers, or CMU Originals are "notable" student organizations.
I also don't think that cmu.misc.market is appropriately labeled as a 'tradition' up there with Buggy, Booth, etc.
Thoughts? --Matt 16:24, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
You are right. The student organizations overwhelms the article and detracts from the overall quality. I gave it its own page with a prominent link.
The article in general has been gutted since I viewed it about six months ago. While the student orgs page creation is a good move, there's a lot that was useful that was here that is now gone. I haven't been around to watch, so I don't know what happened, but I think that a lot of things should be restored. We used to have an article that didn't require cleanup, and now we have one that does. Greyscale 13:12, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

A seemingly new article

I, Raskolnikov have just finished cleaning up the article. It still obviously needs hours and hours of work to improve. But I think I improved the article and its organization. I hope my fellow Wikipedians---and CMUers---support it.

So far, so good --Matt 00:24, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

ver

My bro goes to Carnegie Mellon. He says the history of the university involves that in the early years, every student was required to work regular shifts in the power plant shoveling coal. Also, the buildings were built on slopes such that in case the university failed, the buildings could be be converted into a gravity assisted assembly line production factory.

Can anyone verify this?

They say the thing about gravity assist on the student tour. I don't know about verification for the article though --Matt 02:48, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
I also heard the gravity assist thing on the tour, although only about one building with a huge slanting hallway. also heard about the powerplant on the tour. Qleem 02:26, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
I have heard it asserted that the gravity assist bit is bullshit. (They do say it on the tour, though.) Don't know about the coal shoveling. User:Glenn Willen (Talk) 18:38, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
KGB asserts that the gravity assist bit is BS, yes. (AFAIK, mainly because real assembly lines don't use sloping hallways. Which makes sense to me; what would you be doing, rolling things down them? What if you needed to stop the assembly line in an emergency?)  I, too, have heard that engineering students had to shovel coal for the power plant, and I think it may be true; but I don't know how it could be verified, short of finding a Carnegie Tech grad and asking him. --Quuxplusone 05:50, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
Actually only the main hallway slopes, each room off to the side is flat. Presumably the piece would be rolled down from room to room. Qleem 18:21, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
The gravity thing has to be bull, considering that the first building built with sloping hallways was Doherty Hall (1908). Porter Hall (1906) could easily have been built with the same sloping hallways, especially given its terrain. Brad
The gravity assisted assembly line can't be true. If so, why is ground leveled before factories are built on it? I'm pretty sure the real reason Baker and Doherty have sloping hallways is because they're built on sloped ground. It seems like Occam's Razor applies here. --Decrypt3 00:45, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
It is an urban legend, about as silly as rubbing Hamerschlag's nose. Greyscale 05:26, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Wow, how quickly something that was taken for granted has now become either called "gossip" or bullshit. I went to Carnegie Mellon in the early 1990s and specifically H&SS. The only building on campus that slops all the way is Baker Hall. We were told back then that because Carnegie Technical Schools was a school for the workers of Pittsburgh, all of its classes had to do with industries. The sloping hallways of Baker Hall allowed machinery to be easy transported in the building, so they say. This is what they said on the tour, and this is what we heard as H&SS students. Now, this may or may not be true. I've been thinking that the slope, while easy to transport machinery from the main entrance downwards to Porter Hall, would make it more difficult for them to be transported back UP towards the main entrance when it needs to be done. Regarding the power coal plant thing and students staffing it, I don't know about that. Never heard of that one. --69.134.26.120 (talk) 18:02, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Rankings

"Top in the fields" tends to encompass the top-10 schools. If we go by US News, http://www.cmu.edu/clips/rankings.html rankings, then public policy is among the best in the fields. Removing mention of the public policy school is vandalism.

Graduate Public Affairs -

  1. 8 overall

Criminal Justice Policy Mgmt - #1 Information and Tech Mgmt - #1

Health Policy and Mgmt - #7 Environmental Policy and Mgmt - #7 Public Policy Analysis - #4

There have been multiple times that the Public Policy has been deleted from the sentence "The public policy, computer science, computer engineering, and drama programs are considered to be among the best in their fields." Raskolnikov4138 has kept putting it back in. While one might not like it, its repeated removal is not vandalism, it is a difference of opinion. I think we need to come to concensus about what it means to be "among the best in a field". USNews ranks Public Policy departments between first and eighth in their subcategories. I would argue that "among the top in the field" should be defined as top 3 or top 5.
Even if we agree that it should be included, Public Policy should not be first in the list. It is less notable than Computer Science, for example. --Matt 02:38, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I agree. Public policy is NOT more notabale than Carnegie Mellon's other stregths. But if we want to be consistant, graduate engineering is ranked "only" number 8, while computer engineering is ranked #3. How about something like:

The computer science, computer engineering, drama, and PUBLIC POLICY ANALYSIS programs are considered to be among the best in their fields.

Minus the caps, of course.

Rodion Raskolnikov


Our school CMU is mostly famous for CS, ECE and Drama. When one mentions Carnegie Mellon, Computer Science, computers and technology generally comes to mind. Let us not joke ourselves about the eminence of say the public policy program which is far outstripped by other more notable schools such as Georgetown and some of the Ivy Leagues. But, we CMU, definitely, without doubt, are number #1 when it comes to computers (still ranked number #1 and the only program in the school that is #1)! Hence we should not clutter what we are really known for with less notable academic programs. This Wikipedia entry on CMU has consistently mentioned our CS and ECE programs as top, only Rodion Raskolnikov came by recently with his Public Policy adddition. -This previously unsigned post was added on 03:09 UTC, 13 April 2006 by User:128.2.246.196
Firstly, plz sign your comments with four tildes after it. Secondly, the article is not to tell people what they already know/ is most widely known, but rather, in encyclopedic tradition, to state what is. Come to a consensus on what cut off you would like to use, or perhaps even divide into a section for each department. Please dont try to start a flame war though. Qleem 03:38, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Top three should be it. Let's not add IS because it a fairly undistinguished field - a Business Admin version of Computer Science, if you could say; not as intellectually rigorous as the real thing.--—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.66.236.205 (talk • contribs) 04:48, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Note: logic is listed as #5 in the nation but this is not on the list. That is surely an academically rigorous field. So, by the preceeding arguement, it should be added.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.2.47.18 (talk • contribs) 18:43, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
One more comment: there is no reference on the "prestige" of the drama program. How is it justified to keep this program listed while removing the others?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.2.47.18 (talk • contribs) 18:45, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I changed the rankings paragraph to reflect general departments known for their excellence, rather than naming individual fields. All of the categories are strengths that were listed before, but my rationale for renaming the categories is that each corresponds to a division within the university; i.e. arts, business, CS, engineering, and public policy all have specific schools or colleges dedicated to them. LuoYanshan 20:31, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

CMU, Carnegie Mellon and Central Michigan University

Hopefully, I can put some of the misunderstandings about "CMU" to rest. I was a student there in 1988, when the logo first became an issue and followed the events throughout. I've done a bit of research to corroborate my old and failing memory.

First, the research. Currently, there is no registrant for the typed text "CMU" or even a stylized logo of only those letters. You can verify this by accessing the Trademark Electronic Search System (TESS) and searching for "CMU"). While there have been applications for graphic logos incorporating the letters CMU (including the currently "live" one), take a look at serial number 73699355. Carnegie Mellon filed for registration on 12/7/97 and opposition was published on 9/13/88 (presumably by Central Michigan, but it doesn't say). The application was abandoned on 5/2/1989. Note that the applications both before and after this were also published for opposition -- who knows who actually opposed them.

Suffice it to say that if anyone attempts to register only the letters "CMU", the application will most likely not be granted as either Carnegie Mellon or Central Michigan will oppose it. It's simply too ambiguous at this point.

If I understand the use of the term "Typed Drawing", as used in the documents in TESS correctly, Carnegie Mellon is the registrant of the text "Carnegie Mellon" (and Carnegie-Mellon) regardless of stylization (search for "Carnegie Mellon" in TESS). Note the ® on the Carnegie Mellon Website. So, the words "Carnegie Mellon" cannot be used together in any form without violating the trademark.

As general trademarks go, Central Michigan University has trademarked their seal, the stylized "C", stylized "cmich" and some sort of building graphic, (search for "Central Michigan University" in TESS and select "Owner Name and Address" in the Field drop-down), they do not appear to have trademarked anything else. They have attempted to trademark the stylized CMU logo that includes the underline with "Central Michigan University" spelled out beneath it -- presumably because they couldn't anyway.

So, Carnegie Mellon, Central Michigan University, California Miramar University, Central Methodist University or anyone else in the world, for that matter, could put "CMU" on hats, shirts, mugs, etc. -- they just couldn't claim that it was a registered trademark. In fact, California Miramar and Central Methodist do refer to themselves as "CMU."

This is where memory comes in. When Carnegie Mellon couldn't register "CMU", they decided to instead depart from using the letters altogether and develop a logo with "Carnegie Mellon" spelled out. Before that, everything at the university shop had "CMU" on it. They registered this without problem, of course. They could have continued to sell merchandise with "CMU" and used it on their letterhead, etc., but why would they? Central Michigan was well-entrenched with the letters and a much larger school.

Carnegie Mellon is the registrant of the cmu.edu domain. Carnegie Mellon as one of the first half-dozen or so top-level domain registrants on April 24, 1985, (see http://www.zakon.org/robert/internet/timeline/) and was known as CMU on ARPAnet even before that (note that there were fewer than 10,000 hosts on the internet in 1985 -- probably only a few thousand). The trademark change in 1990 was a few years before the World Wide Web began to become anything like what it is today, so there wouldn't have been much concern with changing "cmu.edu" to "carnegie-mellon.edu" until it was not at all feasible (if it ever really was).

So, there is nothing wrong with saying "known as CMU". There are those of us who support the name change because it accurately identifies the university. It's sort of like how YOURSTATE State" people correct you when you say "University of YOURSTATE" and vice versa. Bsrbennett (talk) 06:32, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Movies shot at CMU

I remember seeing once a really bad low-budget movie (maybe a made-for-TV movie, I'm not sure) that was shot at CMU, but is not mentioned in the Movies filmed at Carnegie Mellon University article. It was about a female Secret Service agent in charge of protecting an African-American senator who was running for POTUS and was subsequently shot and killed in a hotel room. The actual story took place several months (years ?) after the assassination when that agent (now retired from the Secret Service) was living in Pittsburgh and dating an English professor from a fictional local university whose location happens to coincide with the CMU campus. Has anybody else seen that movie or does anybody remember its name ? 200.177.2.49 03:04, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

This past fall the movie Smart People was shot on campus for several weeks in late October/early November, and again for a week in December. The story follows a widower English Professor openly stated to be a member of the CMU faculty, and his personal life as he finds a new love. Dennis Quaid plays the English professor, and Sarah Jessica Parker is the female lead, his newfound love. 76.18.209.17 03:51, 20 December 2006 (UTC)nodono01

Contemporary Carnegie Mellon

The Contemporary Carnegie Mellon section contains an entire paragraph of repeated information.

Also, the section is FAR too limited, as only a very limited spectrum of the contemporary conditions of Carnegie Mellon is accounted for. If you are going to list rankings, why not list ALL rankings, rather than focus on a selective few departments. I can list a BUNCH of other programs/departments in this university that are in the top 10:

  • Heinz School ranked 8th overall (Public Policy Analysis 4th, Environmental Policy 7th, Health Policy 7th) by US News
  • Psychology Ph.D ranked 9th (Cognitive Psych 2nd, Experimental Psych 5th, Behavioral Neuroscience 12th, Developmental Psych 12th) by US News.
  • Bachelor of Architecture ranked 9th by Design Intelligence [7].
  • MFA program ranked 10th (Multimedia/Visual Communications 2nd, Industrial Design 3rd*, Graphic Design 6th) by US News (*and Design Intelligence). And its pretty much common knowledge that the Acting, Musical Theatre and Directing programs in the School of Drama are among probably the top two or three in the country.

Beyond rankings, there is certainly much more pertinent information to add to this section. The school seems to be getting a lot of national press lately. An entire subsection could probably be written about the recent architecture and art installations that have completely veered off course from the appearance of the rest of campus. There are other items of importance too, I just can't think about them right now.

This section also seems to overlap with the Organization section (the academic units of the university may also count in this section). I think a slight overhaul is in order.

Sinisterminister 22:02, 9 September 2006 (EST)

It should be also mentioned that, in Philosophy, CMU is ranked # 1 in Mathematical Logic and, I guess, top 3 in Philosophy of Mathematics and top 5 in Philosophy of Science. 161.24.19.82 12:44, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Alumni

There is no list of famous alumni.--Gkklein 22:58, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Is there a significant gap between Category:Carnegie Mellon University alumni and List of Carnegie Mellon University people? --Matt 15:17, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
As a matter of readability, I think that there should be a short list of exceptionally notable alumni (and faculty!) on the CMU main page. The List of Carnegie Mellon University people is long, bloated and hard to get through; I know there are concerns about the main CMU article's own readability, but alumni and faculty are worthy topics to include. LuoYanshan 19:53, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

This section is rather biased towards pop culture, with rather irrelevant references to Hollywood actors, movies. How about mentioning some of the other nobel prize winners? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.94.250.139 (talk) 02:37, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I found the list of actors difficult to read, so I changed it to bullet styling. Revert it if you think it was a bad idea. -- J.Dong820 (talk) 17:13, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. Moved list of actors to the place it is better suited - Alumni list (List of Carnegie Mellon University people). -- ImmortallyTranquil (talk) 22:54, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Changes to the article recently

I checked this article a few months back, and there was a lot more information on it that I found of interest that has since been deleted, or moved and apparently not linked to. I would very much like to see the information on student organizations come back; organizations like Scotch 'n' Soda, for instance, have graduated people like Steven Schwartz and are quite well-known. I can see why we might not want all this on one page, but there *should* be a page for it. Greyscale 05:31, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Check out the discussion to delete the two articles that I remember being split out: Carnegie Mellon in popular culture and Movies Filmed at Carnegie Mellon. I don't remember what happened to the student organization article. The problem with student organizations is defining the cutoff point for which are listed in the main article. --Matt 15:12, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Carnegie Mellon in popular culture

Why has this section been deleted ? It's a standard section in all college/university articles on the Wikipedia. 200.177.31.242 13:17, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

If we followed the standard Wikipedia template, both "Carnegie Mellon in popular culture/fiction" and "notable student organizations" would have to be restored. It looks like the CMU article has been significantly downgraded.
I don't understand this logic. This section should be restored if it hasn't been already. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 18:58, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm not actually sure it should be restored. Check out WP:TRIV. I actually find the section interesting, but it seems that Carnegie Mellon in popular culture might be fairly close to a Trivia section. What's your take? --Matt 03:25, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Go ahead and delete then similar "trivia" sections in the Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Berkeley, Duke, Cambridge, Oxford, etc. articles !

Programs & Schools

My apologies to whoever made the old table of schools, but I think its purpose is better served with a concise listing of colleges as well as research institutes... notes about the college's founding and name should belong either in the college's own article or in the history section. As far as highlighting the good programs at CMU, I suggest -- although I don't have the time right now -- that we discuss the various departmental strengths in the Schools & Divisions section, instead of trying to cram noteworthy programs into the rankings section. As my note below indicates, I've already consolidated the programs mentioned in Rankings. LuoYanshan 20:58, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Unused GFDL image

Here is an orphan free image I stumbled across: Image:CarnegieMellonDownCut.jpg. --Strangerer (Talk) 22:52, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

CMU

While I know that officially CMU should never be used, wouldn't it be useful to at least mention that internally and within Pittsburgh (and sometimes outside of Pittsburgh where CMU has a lot of alumni) that the school is unofficially referred to as CMU? When you type in CMU in wikipedia it does have a link to Carnegie Mellon and I think that it is worth mentioning. Any thoughts before I put that in?Abrio82 17:22, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

When I was there in the '80s, it was always referred to as CMU (sometimes "C-MU" with a hyphen in official stuff, corresponding to the then-current style of calling it "Carnegie-Mellon University" with the hyphen, which was dropped later), and the domain name is still cmu.edu. *Dan T.* 17:25, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
When I was there in the late '90s, it was still referred to as CMU; they were starting to transition to spelling out "Carnegie Mellon" right near 2000. In fact, the alumni email address was @carnegiemellon.edu when I graduated. I believe there was a conflict with Central Michigan University. I don't know what current students use, but "CMU" is just easier to say. -- Laura S | talk to me 18:36, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

History/Civil War Industrialists

Why can't Asa Packer of Lehigh be included in the list of Civil War industrialists who founded universities? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.22.14.124 (talk) 19:36, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

  • I suppose he could, try adding it back again and posting a message to the user's talk page who removed it, asking them to explain the removal here before removing it from the CMU article page. PadreNuestro 01:30, 1 June 2007 (UTC)


Help needed to expand the Carnegie Mellon page in the Portuguese Wikipedia

I've started a new article on Carnegie Mellon University in the Portuguese-language Wikipedia. I would appreciate if any CMU student or alumni who is fluent in Portuguese could help expand it.

Please note that the article was originally written following the new spelling rules laid out in the 1990 Luso-Brazilian Orthographic Agreement. Whenever double spelling is allowed by the agreement, Brazilian variants were used (hence prêmio as opposed to European Portuguese prémio for example). Brazilian vocabulary was also used whenever it differs from European Portuguese usage (e.g. "pesquisa" instead of investigação). Please keep that in mind in order to preserve consistency in the text (see also Wikipedia conventions on avoiding the use of different varieties of the same language in the same article).

Thanks in advance for any help. Toeplitz 17:11, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Track and Field

No mention that for many, many years the cross country team held the NCAA record for consecutive dual-meet victories at any level? 68.35.62.251 (talk) 07:18, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Hunt Library and the Cut

Isn't it weird to mention the orgin of the Cut without mentioning the requirement by the Hunts when founding Hunt Library that the space between the library and the Cut remain open until 2000 -- and that the University, in one of its smarter decisions, chose to respect that even after the expiration of the original promise? 68.35.62.251 (talk) 07:18, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Hunt Library, such an ugly library. For the kind of stature that CMU has, I'm so surprised that it doesn't build a better library collection! It's library collection is really paltry. Its main library, Hunt, also is very ugly and small. By the way, I went to CMU too in the late 1980s. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.134.26.120 (talk) 18:05, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Scotch'n'Soda

I agree with the above comment for inclusion of this group. How many other universities' non-theatre population have been the genesis of Tony-award winning plays? I'm guessing none.68.35.62.251 (talk) 07:18, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Colleges and Schools

"the university had seven colleges and schools" is not accurate. There are many schools inside the colleges. The College of Fine Art has many schools in itself. Because there is a naming conflict between some of CMU's major and minor departmental divisions, it's not appropriate to use that sentence. How should we rephrase? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.237.227.231 (talk) 23:21, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Also, the BXA (Bachelor of Humanities OR CompSci OR Science and Art) program, listed as its own College or Schoool, is totally absent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.75.152.53 (talk) 23:38, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Contributions to Computer Science

I think a section such as this is warranted, similar to the one for UC Berkeley. It could talk about How CMU students founded Jumiper, Sun Microsystems, Redhat, Lycos[1] etc. How CMU projects such as Mach became part of OS X, AFS, Wireless Andrew, and Java's relationship to CMU. Other thoughts? Rootxploit (talk) 16:05, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Teaching with Wikipedia Workshop at CMU (Aug 15)

Editors interested in this article may find the Teaching with Wikipedia Workshop that will take place at CMU on Aug 15 of interest. This workshop is open to general public, and is a joint imitative of CMU and Pitt). There will be another workshop held at Pitt in the Fall as well. It will cover how to include Wikipedia in one's course (WP:SUP) and also how to become a Wikipedia:Campus Ambassadors. Pennsylvania has currently only one ambassador (myself) and it would be great if we could recruit at least several more. Ambassadors help course instructors, showing them how Wikipedia works, and interact with students. Many current ambassadors come from the body of students, faculty and university staff; it is a fun adventure, and adds to one resume/CV, to boot :) If it sounds interesting, feel free to ask me any questions, or to come to the workshop. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 20:33, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Removing front matter about Pitt

This wikipedia about CMU and therefore the intro paragraph should be about CMU rather than the relationship between Pitt and CMU. I am removing that section of the front matter, if you would like to re-post it, please find a more suitible place for it in either the CMU or Pitt entry. Additionally, there is no citation for CMU and Pitt students being allowed to cross-register with each other, so if you would like to include this, then please provide evidence for it. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.62.177.58 (talk) 00:49, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Copy/paste

—Bill Price (nyb) 17:02, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Flawed factoid to look out for in the future

CMU is promoting itself as the only top-25 university founded in the 20th century because it was founded in 1900; see here. This is actually erroneous, as the university was founded in the 19th century (1801-1900), not the 20th century (1901-2000). I see this factoid is not in the article right now, so no immediate changes are necessary; it's just something to look out for in the future. —Bill Price (nyb) 22:41, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

ARWU

The ARWU values apparently correspond with external links that are on the spam blacklist. Any reason? The values to be added are ARWU_W=55 and ARWU_NU=37. --81.100.44.233 (talk) 18:35, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

I've proposed a removal: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Spam_blacklist#www.shanghairanking. --81.100.44.233 (talk) 18:50, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Pictures of CMU

Here are some new pictures for possible inclusion in the article:--Tomwsulcer (talk) 03:40, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Urban???

Not to be picky about it but this school is presently characterized as "urban" but as far as I can determine "suburban" would be more accurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wrrsimone (talk • contribs) 01:03, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Referencedesk Discussion involving CMU.edu

Hi all, a discussion on the oldest continuous website here, CMU was not the oldest (Symbolics.com) but may be tied with Berkeley, Stanford etc. for the oldest continuous. There is some debate if DNS (1985) constitutes a "website" or if a server (1990) is needed for a "website" or if even HTML/HTTP (1993-1995) would be needed before claiming yourself as a "website". Avid historian here but not up to date on CMU technical history nor a PhD student in computer science so I am interested in what you all think join the discussion! user:MarketdiamondMarketDiamond 02:07, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Carnegie Mellon University Kiltie Band AfD

The article on the Carnegie Mellon University Kiltie Band has been nominated for deletion. If you are interested, you can participate in the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Carnegie Mellon University Kiltie Band.--Hjal (talk) 06:25, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Pictures description

In the Article, there is a picture denominated as "skyway", while as far as I know this is actually the "randy pausch memorial footbridge". As Randy Pausch is explicitly mentioned within the article, I suggest that either the picture should be labeled as such or the existence of this memorial should be mentioned in the article. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.6.11.19 (talk) 14:56, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

IDeATe paragraph

This whole paragraph reads like it is straight out of some advertising material & goes way too in-depth about the simple program. I doubt it needs more than a sentence. Anyone disagree? westin (talk) 10:10, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

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Carnegie Mellon University v. Marvell Technology Group

I didn't find anything about Carnegie Mellon University v. Marvell Technology Group in the article. Was it added and then immediately removed? The RedBurn (ϕ) 09:27, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

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College of Engineering/Carnegie Institute of Technology

At this point, Carnegie Mellon has renamed its engineering college from Carnegie Institute of Technology to the College of Engineering. Please take a look at the college's branding on its official web site (engineering.cmu.edu), CMU's official web site (www.cmu.edu), and even the 2015 commencement wherein the banner representing the College of Engineering has been modified to say "Engineering" rather than CIT. CIT is now a legacy name of both the College of Engineering as well as the University as a whole (CIT was what CMU was known as prior to the 1967 merger with the Mellon Institute of Industrial Research). Therefore, please do not reference the engineering school as the Carnegie Institute of Technology or CIT. Nor is it necessary to include that CIT was the former name of the College of Engineering in anything but detailed entries, in a same way that the Heinz College is not referred to as SUPA, the Tepper School is not referenced as GSIA, or the Dietrich College is no longer called H&SS.73.212.42.147 (talk) 13:52, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

It is still widely referred to on campus as CIT, and that continues to be its name, in addition to College of Engineering. Furthermore many people know it only as CIT and so that information is valuable and important. 98.169.116.161 (talk) 15:48, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
It may still be referred as that on campus, but the official name, per CMU's web materials is College of Engineering. The wikipedia article should reflect the official name. I added a line in the history of the college on its particular page that reflects that the name was changed, but otherwise, official terminology should be used. If you would like to provide a source that shows that the official name is still CIT, then please provide it, otherwise my sources stand and you should refrain from continued change in this regard.209.61.193.48 (talk) 16:46, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

"No results found for "brent scott" site:www.cmu.edu." - ?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.120.2.195 (talk) 09:38, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

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Verification of firsthand experiences

It seems as if many sections are only able to be informed by current or past students of the university (namely the traditions section). These are traditions that might not be as extensively or accurately documented online anywhere, but rather are passed down through the students. How do we verify this information given that there might not be much material to corroborate it available? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Webdevmajor (talk • contribs) 06:30, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Additional References in Popular Culture

I believe that the Hamerschlag Hall is the basis for one of the buildings seen in Monsters University. The name of the building in the movie is the "School of Scaring". I am unable to find a citation from the film staff confirming this homage, but CMU is aware of the resemblance and tweeted about it. WillumWillumWillum (talk) 03:07, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

You need a reference in something published, that isn't a tweet, unfortunately! Deathlibrarian (talk) 14:24, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

Criticism of the University

I have nothing against Carnegie Mellon! But I did come across two incidents in which the University was criticised, which I would think should be included in the article in terms of NPOV and WP:BAL. One includes one of its professors wishing a painful death upon the Queen of England, which then garnered responses from Britian and the British and International press, and in turn was discsussed on Television, so this in particular is hardly a minor local issue! In any case, if editors want to remove it, I think may be best discuss it here, but in terms of balance, I would think it dubious that criticism of a particular institution is removed from that page's article. Deathlibrarian (talk) 07:59, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

That is trivial news of no lasting importance. Please see WP:DUE and WP:NOT. ElKevbo (talk) 12:19, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
IN the case of Anya, she has been notable for multiple events, firstly she used the offensive word akata, which resulted in a petition for her to be removed form the UNiversity. She was then earlier this year, discussed in the press for denigrating Kevin Samuels after he died, and then on Monday, she caused controversy for what she has said about the queen. So in this case, it is multiple events. In addition, it's not just about the event, it's also the ongoing discussion about the Queens connection to colonialism, and supporters of Anya defending her on the grounds of free speech. Wiki policy is - "Unless news coverage of an individual goes beyond the context of a single event" please see WP:NOTNEWS Deathlibrarian (talk) 12:30, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
"Faculty member says something that some people don't like" is not information that is meaningful in the long term. What are readers supposed to learn from this about the institution? What is its lasting importance - are there new policies or practices? Has anything substantive been changed? ElKevbo (talk) 12:59, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
Well the university has been accused of censorship by some, and on the other side, having a staff member who is constantly using twitter to offend people, including getting responses from *international media about the leader of another nation* - and it would appear the University doesn't do anything about. There were calls to have the staff member removed because she was seen as racist, and the University didn't respond to that either. These are *multiple* situations that have appeared in the press. Deathlibrarian (talk) 14:07, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
We don't include every "accusation" and "call for action" reported in the media. This is an encyclopedia, not the National Enquirer. ElKevbo (talk) 14:12, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
Yeah, except if you check the references, you will see the incident is discussed in Deadline, the Independent, Huff Post and the New York Times, among others - and is referenced to them, and has attracted comments from TV commentary like Piers Morgan and Sonny Hostin. British Newspapers are writing responses to it. Balanced articles about a particular institution don't have all the negative content simply pulled out, that's not how Wikipedia works. Deathlibrarian (talk) 14:20, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
Per WP:CSECTION, Controversy sections should normally be avoided. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 15:17, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
  • Agreed that a controversy section should be avoided, and that the info here is undue. {{u|Sdkb}} talk 19:19, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
I wouldn't normally put in a controversy section, but at the same time, if there is valid criticism of an article, it should be included, and there didn't seem to be another easy place to fit it. Simply removing ALL criticism of a subject, makes the article biased towards the subject.Deathlibrarian (talk) 00:39, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
The Controversy section is right now mostly about a living person. It is not appropriate in this depth in an article about the university. In addition, the WP:BLP rules apply: while some version of this should probably go into any eventual article on Uju Anya, restraint is called for, and some of the sources used are not appropriate. The maps mention does not look like it has gotten the kind of coverage that is called for including into the article (WP:NOTNEWS is relevant), and the resulting section is a mash. As consensus so far is that inclusion is WP:UNDUE, and especially as there are WP:BLP issues, I will remove the section. Deathlibrarian, you are welcome to continue to seek consensus. If so, I'd recommend workshopping here a draft version that focuses more on the university role, and less on that of an individual faculty member. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 08:44, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Russ Woodroofe Thanks. I agree with your and other editors' comments, there is way too much text for this incident, and it is WP:Undue. I've cut it back. I suggest this as an alternative, simpler test, that focusses more on the university reaction. It would be good to come to a consensus/compromise point on some text to include. Please let me know if anyone has problems with this suggested text.
The University drew some negative attention in 2022 when one of its academics, Professor Uju Anya wished "excruciating pain" on Queen Elizabeth, upon her death, and that she hoped she would die “in agony". [2] The comments were criticized by Jeff Bezos, Piers Morgan, the British Press and others. Carnegie Mellon announced they didn't condone the remarks, but supported the right to free speech for their staff, and the University took no disciplinary action against the staff member. [3]
Deathlibrarian (talk) 09:06, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ http://www.cmu.edu/corporate/points_of_distinction/affiliated_companies.shtml
  2. ^ "University condemns professor's posts wishing Queen 'excruciating' death". The Independent. 2022-09-09. Retrieved 2022-09-09.
  3. ^ "Carnegie Mellon University professor's critical tweet about Queen Elizabeth II goes viral". Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. Retrieved 2022-09-09.
Once again, what lasting importance does this information have? What meaningful impact has it had on the university? ElKevbo (talk) 15:20, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Deathlibrarian, the question ElKevbo is asking is a good one. This material looks like it is not mainly about the university: a faculty member has done something that might embarrass them slightly, and which is getting some current news coverage (but which is not mainly about the university, and which appears unlikely to last). Is this something that people are going to be talking about in 5 years when they talk about the university? I don't think it is likely, which suggests that this is not the right place for this material. Some alternatives: Similar material appears to already be in Reactions to the death of Elizabeth II. You could also try to advance an article on Anya, but I am a little bit doubtful that there is enough notability for her article to survive an Articles for Deletion discussion. Perhaps a combined case between reviews for her book and the coverage of her tweets? Russ Woodroofe (talk) 18:30, 11 September 2022 (UTC)
Sorry, I must disagree that this isn't related to the institution, and isn't relevant to this article - (1) Anya is a faculty member, and in all the articles they generally refer to her as a "Carnegie Mellon Professor" or "Carnegie Mellon Faculty" (or something similiar). (2) The University was called on to fire her (3) and the media reported that they didn't {3} the University was criticised for supposedly censoring her and now (4) there is a petition that demands the university allows in this case, freedom of speech - "The petition calls the university's response unacceptable" (5) The most recent articles are now discussing the Carnegie Mellon student body, saying that they support Anya (6) Most of these particular issues are relating to how *the University* (Including the student body) has responded to the comments - so yes, it is content relevant to the University. Deathlibrarian (talk) 12:30, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
I disagree with including potentially incendiary remarks by professors or students in university articles. If the individual is notable, their remarks could be included in their article. Sandcherry (talk) 17:27, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
I don't think there is Wikipedia policy that says something should be excluded because it is incendiary, but if there is policy, could you please link to it? In my mind, that is verging on excluding content simply because it is critical of the subject, which of itself, is definitely not Wikipedia policy reasoning for exclusion. As mentioned, these articles linked above, discuss the *University's reaction*. Deathlibrarian (talk) 23:04, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Participants in this discussion may also be interested in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Uju Anya. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 10:16, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

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