Talk:Carpet bombing

Merge with Area bombing

There is an article area bombing. As here the words area bombing are bold in the intro the two articles need to be merged. Get-back-world-respect 02:08, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, they don't seem to be the same thing, quite: area bombing is specifically wide-area bombing (and always of civilian targets?), whereas carpet-bombing con be on a very small area. Will try and clarify in the article ... quota 10:20, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

On second thoughts, after re-reading the article, it is almost all about area bombing, so a merge makes sense. Just needs a section on carpet-bombing in area bombing. quota 10:22, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Carpet bombing is directly the opposite of Area Bombing. Area Bombing is bombing a City target from high altitude. The British used area night bombing to attack German Cities during World War II and measured it as accurate if the bomb fell within 5 miles of the target point, whereas Carpet Bombing is taking a relatively small box (for reference 700 yards deep by 2500 yards wide) and dropping enough bombs on precise points in the box to ensure that every single small area within the box is bombed thouroughly, it was used in Normandy during the British and Canadian attack on the city of Caen and as a prelude to the breakout from the normandy Beachhead for Operation Cobra. Please refer to any accounts of these battles for several references. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.6.197.163 (talk) 07:12, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

It's hard to see any firm definition for these terms. They certainly are not standardized in any sense, and different writers use them in different ways. Is 'bombing an area' different or the same as 'area bombing'? It depends on the context. (but I agree .. carpet bombing certainly does imply intense coverage of the target. mfc (talk) 17:31, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I can certainly understand confusion on this point. My opinion is that over time and with the huge numbers of articles written on this subject, the term has become DILUTED. I have read many accounts of many battles, mostly from the 60's and 70's and I claim that in those eras there was no duplicity of the meaning of the term Carpet Bombing. If we must now accept the diluted meaning then so be it, but I know of no superior authority to the contemporary writers of the primary reference history. To me carpet bombing is the intensive saturation bombing of a very small space. Specifically NOT the area bombing or fire bombing of a city target. Carpet Bombing is a TACTICAL warfare method, not a strategic one. It is intended to destroy enemy military forces in the field, not INTENDED to destroy civilians, although this is frequently a secondary (in the military vise political sense - in the political sense it can be viewed as extremely reckless and inhumane owing to the utter pulverising of EVERYTHING in the target area), albeit possibly even more significant, effect.

It seems to me the issue is not so much that the terms are different (because that doesn't mean that they wouldn't be described in the same article, that's par for wikipedia) but if they both need a whole separate article... Area Bombing is a small article and the subject is at least extremely near Carpet Bombing. It seems to me that merging them and giving Area Bombing a separate section, elaborating on the differences, would be the best. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 153.96.220.2 (talk) 14:42, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

Subjects to cover

This list was left in the article by a previous writer:

• The origins of bombing theory with Giulio Douhet
• First use of area bombing on a civilian target: Bombing of Gernika, April 1937
• First use of area bombing on a military target: Battle of El Mazuco, Asturias, September 1937
• The systematic destruction of German and Japanese population centers during World War II particularly: RAF Bomber Command's Battle of Berlin (air). Firestorms created by RAF Bomber Command in the bombing of Hamburg and the bombing of Dresden and USAAF in the bombing of Tokyo.
• Strategic bombing
• Carpet bombing in the Vietnam War
• The use of B52s to bomb the Iraqi Republican Guard in the Gulf War (1990–1991)

Re: Please note much of this is already covered by Strategic bombing and Aerial bombing of cities. --Kubanczyk (talk) 02:21, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

No mention of Luftwaffe carpet bombings

In Soviet Union.--Molobo (talk) 19:20, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

I'll start on this. I have some good stuff relating to Minsk, Sevastopol, Leningrad, Stalingrad, Kiev, Riga, Moscow and Smolensk. Dapi89 (talk) 20:43, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

____

[1] This addition seems completely irrelevant to the article. Tho carpet bombing in many conflicts can be added to this article, including the soviet-afghan war, dudayev was not an important figure in this war and his name does not appear in a single book on the soviet-afghan war. Machinarium (talk) 00:33, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Corresponding article in German

The corresponding article in German can be found under http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fl%C3%A4chenbombardement but when i try to add the Link it gives me a nonsensical error message (something about the site not giving page information, which makes no sense in this phrasing and most of all is highly suspect from a wikipedia page) Maybe an issue of merging articles, see the other section on this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 153.96.220.2 (talk) 14:34, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

Vietnam section

The section is poorly written, reading almost entirely as a hometown journal's report of American action, without describing any of the bombings' targets, effects, or larger impact. I do not think the number of bombers or bombermen is nearly as important to the legacy of carpet bombing as numbers related perhaps to casualties and destruction. TehAnonymous (talk) 19:42, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Carpet bombing. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20151202081911/http://www.crimesofwar.org/a-z-guide/carpet-or-area-bombing/ to http://www.crimesofwar.org/a-z-guide/carpet-or-area-bombing/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 12:39, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Crimes of war

Is the website, "crimes of war", a strong enough source for this unconditional assertion? Certainly if the statement was indisputable we could find a more reliable source? For example, how about https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v1_rul_rule13 ?---- Work permit (talk) 15:20, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

I would also add that the topic of crime is not mentioned anywhere else in the article. Per MOS:LEAD, "significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article." We should include a section, with a reference to Aerial bombardment and international law ---- Work permit (talk) 04:11, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

Korea

It appears that a variety of sources describe carpet bombing during the Korean War. I will add a few I've found here, and I'll try to start the section in the future.

Americans once carpet-bombed North Korea. It's time to remember that past . An opinion article by Bruce Cumings in The Guardian. Though an opinion piece, Cumings is a major subject-matter expert (as you can see on his Wiki page). His book Korea's Place in the Sun would be a better reference, though I don't have access to it at the moment.

Why Do North Koreans Hate Us? One Reason — They Remember the Korean War. Article from The Intercept.

How One Man Helped Burn Down North Korea. Politico article on Donald Nichols.

[2] A full Guardian article (with some quotes to Cumings).

Britannica carpet bombing entry. For what it's worth, Britannica's entry includes some details on the bombing in NK.

Politifact Brief reference which says: "Other examples [of carpet bombing during WWII] from the Korean War and the Vietnam War are sometimes cited."

Jlevi (talk) 23:05, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Hooton 2007

As far as I can tell, the Hooton 2007 source has literally never had a full citation (unless I'm blind). It got added in 2013 in this diff, and at that point it had the status as the only Hooton reference on the page.

Looking at references to Hooton 2007 in other articles, I see that in Heinkel He 111 operational history the subsequent sources are used:

• Hooton, E.R. Luftwaffe at War, Blitzkrieg in the West: Volume 2. London: Chevron/Ian Allan, 2007. ISBN 978-1-85780-272-6.
• Hooton, E.R. Luftwaffe at War, Gathering Storm 1933-39: Volume 1. London: Chevron/Ian Allan, 2007. ISBN 978-1-903223-71-0.

Seems like a good start to retrieving and validating this reference and expanding the citation in this article. Jlevi (talk) 21:56, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

I don't think Warsaw was the first city to suffer from carpet bombing

The bombing of Guernica happened at 1937, and according to Khan Academy https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/art-1010/cubism-early-abstraction/cubism/a/picasso-guernica it was a case of carpet bombing. Eduardo Carls (talk) 17:47, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Where does your quoted reference use the term "carpet bombing"? ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 09:34, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

Early history is dubious

The early history of carpet bombing, as given in this article, is dubious. The term does not appear in British English until 1943 (see OED and also searches for the term in the British Newspaper Archive). There is already one failed verification in the article on the early history, another reference relies on a translation. Either better references are needed, or the early part of the article needs revision. ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 09:32, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

Rewording Part of the WW2 Section

I think this can be rewritten. There's a part where they discuss it with close air support. Even though the battles are within the WW2 its very random to introduce this concept since its not an area bombing, its close air support. Either make this a new section or delete the part of the close air support subject.Chefs-kiss (talk) 08:17, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

King's Landing by Daenerys Targaryen

Should there be a reference to the popular depiction of medieval carpet bombing when Daenerys Targaryen targeted the streets of King's Landing on the back of a dragon? 203.46.132.214 (talk) 05:31, 3 May 2023 (UTC)