Talk:Cashis/Archive 1

Niteshift36

I'm sorry but i think what i said down below about you stands, it is obvious that you don't like this page because of something someone else has done... first off you have obviously never bothered to look and see if you could verify any of the tapes, not to mention i have never seen a reference tag on one mixtape, or discography listing. i could go right now and show you entire listings in discography section based on mixtapes that where never commercially released. and the listing will tell you it is a mixtape. like i asked below, are we now not showing mixtapes on wikipedia? then if so you need to take your crusade to remove entire listings now. but like i said remove the mixtapes if it makes you feel good. Second, the entire discography that i created for Cashis was based off of Stat Quo's Discography. He being similar in stature as well as having a similar amount of genuine published content (i.e. not mixtapes since obviously feel they should not be included in someones discography). Stat's listing shows the Collaboration 'The Re-Up' and its stats just like i displayed it here (that is where i got it). so tell me now why that can not be listed on this page, if it is good enough for that page? i will be changing it back if your response doesn't satisfy me. third, why is somebody who obviously doesn't like hiphop, taking so much interest in a page that has nothing to do with him and wouldn't interest him anyway? do you really resent Rikanatti that much, that you wouldn't want people to find information about Cashis?IP98.150.65.177 (talk) 03:05, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

• You're making this personal, I'm not. The standards for Wikipedia are simple.....read WP:PROVEIT, then go read WP:RS to find out what is a reliable source. You don't want to start threatening to edit war, especially when you are on the wrong side of the rules. Next, what made you decide you were in the position to start telling me what I like or dislike? No, I don't have a single Cashis song on my iPod, but last time I checked, Akon, Jay-Z, E40, Ludacris, The Game, DMX, T-Pain, Young Jeezy, Plies and others on my iPod are still considered hip hop artists. If none of them are, please correct me now. Otherwise, you obviously don't know what you're talking about. Hip Hop isn't what I have an issue with. What I have an issue with is people attempting to use Wikipedia as a promotional tool and cloaking it as "informing". Niteshift36 (talk) 04:02, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

your making it personal again, i am not using this as a promotional tool... you have not put up one argument to why i cant show the same graphic that is on stat quo's page on this page and i enjoy that you have expanded your mind to listen to top 40 hip hop.. hip hop needs all kinds of people, 'we have a big tent', right... like i said if you can't give me an argument to why the album can be shown on one page and not another than i will change it back... what do you want me to prove that cashis was featured on the re-up, he was... you are wrong... i have read all the pages you referenced here, and have put up ligament arguments... it has already been proven that cashis was featured on the album 'eminem presents the re-up'... now if you want to argue credible sources why don't you head over to plies page and clean that up... i would think that you would clean the pages of the artists that you like. why don't you head to the games discography and remove the unreferenced mixtapes there... if dubcnn.com isn't a good site why don't you remove it from games listing... not to mention if you don't want to use self published content anywhere. then, where allmusic.com is referenced, needs to be removed because all that is is the biography that an artist publisher sends to allmusic for promotion... address the real argument that you can not win and not the petty stuff about your music tastes, you only addressed the last argument. and i will get into an editing war that i can win. "What I have an issue with is people attempting to use Wikipedia as a promotional tool and cloaking it as "informing"." what are you trying to say that I am promoting him. i have met cashis less than you could count on two hands, through a mutual friend. i have never even met rikk that i can remember, i couldn't tell you what he looked like. i only ever heard people talk about him. i didn't like their music that much then and was critical of the mixtape that got them signed when i heard it, never thought anyone would sign either of them from that effort. for the record i don't really care for the music Cashis makes now, at all. how is that for promoting. anyone can read this. i had never even thought about editing a page on here because i didn't think that i had anything to add. i came across this page and I know it isn't what it should be. like i said before out of friendship I will make this page what it should be I got Cashis' mixtapes to give them to a friend that likes his music. period. i added only mixtapes i own and you could easily find on the internet. Don't even try to act like i work for him or something.IP98.150.65.177 (talk) 19:20, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

• Your response starts out by not making sense.

You said "your making it personal again". First, it's not personal. Second, what do you mean again? Unless you've edited under some other account, that was the first time I addressed you, so I couldn't be doing anything to you "again".

Then you say "i am not using this as a promotional tool". I never said you did. You specifically asked "do you really resent Rikanatti that much".

Then you say "you have not put up one argument to why i cant show the same graphic that is on stat quo's page on this page". Apparently you misunderstand this issue because that statement is absolutely false. I could care less what graphic you are using. My issue is with the unsourced information contained in it. Not a single bit of it was sourced with a reliable source. That is the absolute standard here on Wikipedia. Your so-called source was saying you had them. I'd suggest that you read WP:TRUTH and the policy about no original research, then you'll understand.

After that, you give me "i enjoy that you have expanded your mind to listen to top 40 hip hop." I don't know anything about you, but playing the odds says that I was probably listening to it before you. I was listening to NWA, Run DMC and others long before CD's existed, back when it was all cassettes and vinyl.

Next is "like i said if you can't give me an argument to why the album can be shown on one page and not another than i will change it back". Short answer: Sourcing. Period.

Next "what do you want me to prove that cashis was featured on the re-up, he was... you are wrong". I'm not wrong. I know he was. I never said he wasn't. It is you who is wrong. What I actually HAVE said was that you need to source it with a reliable source. Again, that is an absolute standard.

"now if you want to argue credible sources why don't you head over to plies page and clean that up". Check the edit history. I've already done editing there, including nominating Big Gates records for deletion because it's not notable an improperly sourced.

You follow with: " would think that you would clean the pages of the artists that you like. why don't you head to the games discography and remove the unreferenced mixtapes there... if dubcnn.com isn't a good site why don't you remove it from games listing... not to mention if you don't want to use self published content anywhere.". I can only think of one game article I've edited and it was very well sourced. I don't do many game articles. I can't be everywhere and do everything my friend. While you're at it, you might want to read WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS. In short, saying something exists somewhere else in violation of policy doesn't make it ok to have it here.

"to mention if you don't want to use self published content anywhere. then, where allmusic.com is referenced, needs to be removed because all that is is the biography that an artist publisher sends to allmusic for promotion"? First, this isn't Niteshift's policy not to use SPS's, it is wikipedia policy. Second, allmusic is widely considered a reliable source by the community because, although press releases are sent to them, they have a reputation for accuracy and as a third party source. Again, read WP:RS.

"address the real argument that you can not win and not the petty stuff about your music tastes, you only addressed the last argument". I've addressed the real issue all along and never made my personal music tastes (which you have magically and incorrectly assessed) part of the issue. The real issue has been RELIABLE SOURCES all along. If it can't be proven with a reliable source, it can be removed.

"and i will get into an editing war that i can win." Maybe you should read the policies before you start drawing lines in the sand. I have no intention of edit warring. I will act within the policies and seek administrative support when it becomes necessary. Perhaps you should check the edit history too and see the admins that have taken similar actions in this article. I realize you are a new editor, but you really need to read the policies I am telling you about.

"what are you trying to say that I am promoting him". I said no such thing. You asked me if my dislike of an individual was why I took an interest in this article. I addressed that question.

"like i said before out of friendship I will make this page what it should be I got Cashis' mixtapes to give them to a friend that likes his music. period. i added only mixtapes i own and you could easily find on the internet.". One more time, read WP:PROVEIT, WP:RS, WP:OR and WP:TRUTH. It's not what you can "find on the internet", it's what you can show through reliable sources. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia, not a fan site. I can photoshop a picture of me wearing 8 Olympic medals while I fuck Rihanna and post it on the internet. That doesn't make it true or accurate. Nor would it be reliably sourced. Writing articles "for" someone is bordering on WP:COI as well, which was a problem here.

"Don't even try to act like i work for him or something". That's the third time you claim I did and it's no more true now than it was the first time.

PLEASE, read the policies. Niteshift36 (talk) 23:25, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

....go back and read it "What I have an issue with is people attempting to use Wikipedia as a promotional tool and cloaking it as "informing". " those are your words.... i used the word "informing" not rikanatti... he used it as a promotional tool. i said that 'I' was informing... so what the fuck did you mean by that statement, then if not that i was trying to promote him? oh and i cussed because i figured it was cool since you did. like i said before you are obviously involved with this page because of some resentment you have against rikanatti nothing more. and thanks for seeing it my way.98.150.65.177 (talk) 21:48, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

• You go back and read....I KNOW what I said and I've explained the statement. You asked if I had some issue with Rikannatti. I was addressing that. Either accept it or don't. Makes no difference to me, I'm following policy. And no, profanity is not prohibited from WP, WP is no censored. However, uncivil conduct IS prohibited. My use of profanity was not directed AT you, it was used in a totally different context. I'd advise you against repeating conduct like that. Niteshift36 (talk) 04:01, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

like i said once again go back and read it.. rikinatti never said that he was cashis manager, you implied that... you implied that our edits where in the same nature.. they flat out were not. period... you need to go back and look at the edits that i made.. the only real change i made that was against wikipedias police was the mixtapes and i conceded that fact a while back now... i just think it needs to be consistent, that is all...the other changes where merely to make it look better and add the re-up, which we both agree should be shown...the other future albums i never added i just copied what was already shown into another format... and for the record go back and read it i was never cursing at you... if i had said f you or something or you are a f..then i understand but as i read it we both used it as color in our talk, we both could have used less offensive words.. not really directed at you per say... if i would have said 'how the hell' you probably wouldn't have been offended... if you would have said 'screwing rihanna' i probably wouldn't have used the word fuck.. so sorry for what it is worth, i am sure you are too... and you need to go back and read that sentence you never explained it and it does imply at least that our edits where in the same nature. and like i said before stands on no other rap music artists page are there any reference linked albums or mixtapes that i have seen.... you say you only did one game article well your not doing anything here but removing, what i am suggesting is go over there and remove the unreferenced info like you do here... the savior of wikipedia, your obviously really good at it.IP98.150.65.177 (talk) 00:06, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

• I'm not sure why I'm even entertaining this:

"rikinatti never said that he was cashis manager, you implied that" Actually, the admin SarekOfVulcan has said it here: [1]. Then Rikinatti, using his IP address, responded with "What does me haveing a business relationship with him have anything to do with this?" here: [2]. That is an admission. Then he erased the IP address signature here. [3]. Then he added his own name to the question here: [4]. So let's not pretend like there is no evidence of it. If you have nothing to do with him, then why are you so worried about it?

"you implied that our edits where in the same nature.. they flat out were not. period" That implication is yours, not mine. I've explained the comment. I'm done explaining it.

"and for the record go back and read it i was never cursing at you" I suspect that if I took the remark to the WQA board, they'd see it my way.

"you say you only did one game article well your not doing anything here but removing, what i am suggesting is go over there and remove the unreferenced info like you do here" Everything I've done here has been within policy. I have the freedom to choose to edit or not edit whatever article I feel like editing. This one stays on my watch list because I keep seeing people try to sneak in a bunch of unsourced material. I'm waiting a couple of days to see if that list of collaborations gets sourced with reliable sources.

"the savior of wikipedia, your obviously really good at it." Please, if you're going to be sarcastic, make it entertaining. Niteshift36 (talk) 04:08, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

like i said rik admitting that he has a business relationship with cashis isn't admitting to being cashis' manager.. but yes i believe they have a business relationship together and that is what he was asking had "anything to do with it" if you read the question... as far as i know he really isn't cashis' manager like i said before in my first post in here was that he was really asking the question and didn't understand (was my opinion after reading the whole thing afterward)... even your responses back to him are acting like he couldn't possibly not understand... lets recount 1.) i have said here that i don't like there music at all 2.) basically insulted him in my first post saying that he wasn't intelligent enough to understand... i said i have only met the guy through a mutual friend and wish him success and rather than just editing it like i see other people have done i merely asked why... here... and changed the albums that i knew about and could easily be found, i didn't add sources because like i said i had never seen sources to album before... i had only ever seen sources to future album and there release dates, like i said before i didn't add those future albums and they will probably never come out if cashis is going the way of stat quo... in other words shady records and interscope keep telling cashis that they will release his album but then don't and he looks like a fool the same as stat quo did about statlanta. like i said i didn't ever really care other than to explain what i saw in your conversations, read my first post. i don't really care to argue just explain myself.IP98.150.65.177 (talk) 00:11, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

• An editor with the same name as his manager and who admits a business relationship with him, comes in and makes nothing but promotional edits. Hmmmm, wonder why more than one admin has warned him? And he never bothered denying it until after he realized that Wikipedia actually takes that stuff seriously. As for all the rest.........I'm following wikipedia policies and guidelines. I'm not going to continue this pointless re-tracing of the same stuff over and over. Why am I wasting time talking to you about "rik"? Unless you want to tell me you are him? Niteshift36 (talk) 00:32, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Both of you are absurd, this is the most ridiculous, pointless argument I may ever have seen. That either of you care enough about either side of the issue to argue this much about it is amusing. Who knows what's happening with his album, the news will be posted when it's available. He was indeed on The Re-Up, which was successful, along with his EP, but has done little since then. There's absolutely no reason to delete the page, nor to add to it. Sheesh. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mcmuan01 (talk • contribs) 15:15, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

• What are you talking about Mcmuan? This isn't a discussion about deleting the page. This is a discussion about deleting information that isn't supported by a reliable source. Niteshift36 (talk) 17:07, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

....

I'm sorry, but the people saying this article needs to be deleted are out of their minds. Cashis was on The Re-Up. The Re-Up, according to its article, sold 400,000 copies in its first week - which means by now it has certainly earned gold status, and makes Cashis notable according to WP:MUSIC. Faseidman 00:13, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 14:25, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

spelling of his name

which is his name, ca$his or cashis?? In the article there are both. Vacanzeromane (talk) 17:37, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

The dollar sign is just decoration for "s". Wikipedia doesn't copy stylised typography - see WP:NAME#Music. That's why the Korn article isn't titled "KoЯn". Spellcast (talk) 00:24, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

This has again been moved back to "Ca$his" with no explanation. Unless someone gives a reason, I'm moving it back per WP:NAME#Music and MOS:TM. The dollar sign is obviously just decoration and if it was really official, it wouldn't be spelled as "Cashis" several times in his site. Spellcast (talk) 10:12, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

It's for the same reason Eminem's article doesn't use a backwards 'E'. TomUSA 23:02, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

COI tag

Rikanatti (talk · contribs) is a major contributor to this article, and he is also listed in the article as Cashis' producer.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 14:49, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

From the edit pattern, Rikanatti also seems to edit as 174.3.47.197 (talk · contribs)

so whats wrong with me editing this page and i dont edit as 174.3.47.197 (talk · contribs)

Wikipedia:Conflict of interest explains the pitfalls you need to look out for.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:18, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

• First, you have a business relationship with the artist. Second, Your edits have been disruptive. You removed the notice that the article was under nomination for deletion. That is a pretty serious thing on Wikipedia. Third, you kept removing the notice that the article was using self-published sources. cashisonline.com is a self-published source. Labeling the article as using self-published sources was entirely proper. Removing the notice was not. Now your actions have forced administrators to get involved and they removed all the references of cashisonline because it is a self-published source. If you read WP:COI you will see: COI editing involves contributing to Wikipedia in order to promote your own interests or those of other individuals, companies, or groups. Where advancing outside interests is more important to an editor than advancing the aims of Wikipedia, that editor stands in a conflict of interest.

COI editing is strongly discouraged. When editing causes disruption to the encyclopedia through violation of policies such as neutral point of view, what Wikipedia is not, and notability, accounts may be blocked. COI editing also risks causing public embarrassment outside of Wikipedia for the individuals and groups being promoted. I hope that clears it up for you. Niteshift36 (talk) 20:23, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

What does me haveing a business relationship with him have anything to do with this? Rikanatti (talk · contribs)

• You have a vested financial interest in seeing him succeed and have been using self-published sources as the primary information for the articles. On top of that, you removed the AfD tag from an article, which is a big deal around here. Attempting to hide the fact that the article is being considered for deletion makes the conflict of interest look even worse. Removing the tags about sepf-published sources also makes the COI look worse. Then editing under a registered account and an IP account, while denying that you are doing it......It's looking like a problem. Niteshift36 (talk) 00:07, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Rikanatti has not shown any bias towards Cashis with his edits, he has always kept the articles neutral and uses references for everything he edits. It would be unfair to block someone JUST because he knows the artist when I've seen people vandalise pages with offensive words and get off with a warning. LDNPRS (talk) 19:33, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

LDNPRS, I see you have been here at Wikipedia for all of five days, so you may not yet have a good perspective on what is considered biased editing here. Trust us, the edits by Rikanatti / 174.3.47.197 to this article have not met the standards we have established for unbiased editing. Not even close. — Satori Son 21:31, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

• the only thing i edit is songs and albums and have i ever been wrong about them "NO"

AHAHA do you have anything else to add? Rikanatti (talk · contribs)

• • Yes. You vandalized this page by removing properly placed tags about the use of self-published sources. You denied editing as two different accounts, when you have in fact done so. And you removed an AfD template from one of the articles while the AfD was still in progress....a big no-no. THAT is why the COI is being made an issue. Your editing activity has not been in keeping with the policies and have shown a pattern of trying to put the subject in a better light, which is not a neutral POV.
    • well whos with me to properly source this article? Rikanatti (talk) 23:32, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

• See below. If you have reliable sources that pass WP:RS, then bring them here and we will consider how to work them into the article. Niteshift36 (talk) 23:27, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Proper Sourcing

we need some proper sourcing please help!!! Rikanatti (talk) 23:32, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

As his manager, you probably know better than anyone if he's been written about in magazines or newspapers. If you give us links to them and they are reliable sources, we can probably figure out how to work them into the article. Niteshift36 (talk) 19:20, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Exactly right. It is disingenuous, to say the least, for the professional manager of an entertainer to come here and ask us to provide news sources in which he has received substantial coverage. Don’t be coy: If there has been such coverage, list it here. — Satori Son 13:25, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Regarding the request for page protection.

Rikanatti, I offered to assist you in working reliable sources into the page, but your request for page protection has made me lose respect for you and I withdraw the offer to assist. You actually made the request, claiming that 174.3.47.197 is vandalizing the page, when it has been shown that you are that editor. Not only is the request in bad faith, it is dishonest. Niteshift36 (talk) 05:29, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

For the last time im not 174.3.47.197 and im not cashis manager how many times do i gotta tell you this before you get it in your head??? Rikanatti (talk) 04:00, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

• You have answered as 174.3.47.197, then gone back and changed to your own signature. You also admitted you were his manager when you asked why that makes a difference. Niteshift36 (talk) 04:02, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
  • thats not true and for that manager thing i was asking your a question what does it matter if i was is manager or not? Rikanatti (talk) 05:00, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

he really doesnt understand what you mean by conflict of interest. i accually know ramone personally and would like to see him succeed. I DONT HAVE A VESTED INTEREST OTHER THAN FRIENDSHIP!!!! i use wikipedia alot, i love it, even when people tell me it is all crap because people edit it, I KNOW THEY ARE WRONG. i see the job that you editors do. so with that in mind here you go: these are just a few links that i found with cashis interviews.

www.djbooth.net/index/interviews/entry/cashis-interview/

http://www.rapbasement.com/cashis/061809-shady-records-artist-cashis-releases-new-mixtape-called-the-leak-volume-2-download-here.html

http://www.rapbasement.com/news/cashis/eminem-s-protege-ca$his-warns-the-competition.html

www.rapbasement.com/cashis/062709-shady-records-artists-cashis-talks-about-shady-records-and-his-new-projects.html

http://www.rapbasement.com/cashis/062609-shady-records-artists-cashis-responds-to-rumors-that-he-was-dropped-from-eminems-shady-record.html

http://www.rapbasement.com/news/cashis/cashis-continues-to-be-a-loose-cannon.html

www.dubcnn.com/interviews/cashis/

http://www.streethop.com/forum/street-corner/132720-cashis-talks-about-obie-trice-his-album-22s-more.html

http://www.genspot.com/video-134953/exlusive-1-hour-interview-cashis-shady-records.aspx

www.dubcnn.com/interviews/cashis-obietrice/

http://www.hiphop-elements.com/article/read/4/14010/1/

http://chronicvacation.com/2009/07/exclusive-early-review-of-cashis-euthanasia-album/

this is an interview with another artist talking about ramone and a colabortion with him

http://raptalk.net/website/content/view/1541/54/

http://raptalk.net/website/content/view/905/54/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.150.65.177 (talk) 03:21, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

• Not one of those sources you listed will pass WP:RS. They can't be used in the article. Niteshift36 (talk) 06:28, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

It seems that you just don't like this listing because obviously wikipedia was used by Rikanatti in order to promote himself or his artist which I understand why you wouldn't want that. Really though, please don't act like interviews such as these are listed as sources in almost every single music artist that you list in wikipedia. You use these when talking about "beefs" or as you say conflicts both perceived and real in the rap community, not exactly reliable and usually promotional in nature, but there they are along side early life career on almost every rappers page.

Also I listed the mixtapes that cashis has put out, just like they are listed on all the other rap artists pages and you have removed them, why? I expect that if you are removing mixtapes that you will be removing them from all artists listings. Please tell me this is not the case. I personally use wikipedia to see if an artist has put out a tape that I missed, or find other music for an artist I just came to know of. This is the only site unless the artist has one where you can find a nice list of someones mixtapes and when they came out as well as their studio albums.

Cashis has had a nationally (and maybe worldwide) distributed EP, that charted on billboard and was released by a mojor label. You have larger listings for previously signed artists who have never put out a major release, i.e. Stat Quo or Wiz Khalifa, if i wanted i could easily find more.

Stat Quo who was signed to the same label as Ramone, never put any solo project out while their. Was dropped and has only put out one digital release since then if you don't count his mixtapes, which you do. He has a page and a discography page showing all his mixtapes. Interviews are sited just like they are sited in any celebrity page to tell their background story.

Wiz Khalifa only had one charting single and put out a completely independent release in 2006. He has put out several mixtapes(which are listed), now has been dropped by his label. Allmusic.com is sited as a source for his life story as well as an INTERVIEW he did with some other website, hardly CNN.com. Now Wiz does have local news paper articles, and I understand why that is important. Anyone can make a website, but he has not done anything major in the music business to get those, the papers who wrote about him are all local papers. I will explain why this is important further down.

I don't think that anything on Stat Quo's or Wiz Khalifa listings should be changed. The two pages give you a nice background on the artist and are informative to some one who would want to know about their background and what music content the artist has out there. Especially content that was release by the artist for free on the internet (mixtapes), a free/open service should appreciate that.

What you fail to understand is that although when you look at pure record sales and releases, I think you would find that Cashis has done more than either of these artists, you would have a harder time finding his name in local newspapers (like Kahlifa). Cashis lives in Orange County. I lived in Costa Mesa for 8 years, O.C. is probably the most racist county toward blacks I have ever found in Califronia (not the worst in the country I am sure), but it is the early stomping grounds and/or safe harbor for most of the white supremacist gangs in California. Why don't you look it up on your own website. I have many black friends from Long Beach who would not visit me their for fear of being attacked. They wouldnt cross the 'Orange Curtain' as they called it. That is why their is no print about Cashis, local papers aren't interested and he is not yet big enough for national media attention. Similar to the two aforementioned artists except they don't live in a county where blacks are not popular. I am not claiming that the papers are racist, just that their readers wouldn't be interested in a story about a black rapper.

Now as for interviews: Explain to me why you will except an interview from one source, but you wont except it from another source. When both interviews are merely a transcript of questions and answers. In both instances you would be relying on the interviewee's words and nothing more to back up the story. correct? It seems that an Interview about oneself is a Third party published auto-biography. Even if other stories the website has published are baseless is the interview itself tainted even if it isn't written in article form but there is an actual transcript of the artists words?

Thank You for your time, I have never done this with Wikipedia and would only like to see a page showing the true body of Cashis' work here and I feel like Rikanatti has unfavorably swayed your opinion against that. And if not one of those sources where good enough for inclusion in an article then you have much more cleaning to do and not just on this page, but every rap artists page on your site I have ever visited unfortunately.

98.150.65.177 (talk) 19:33, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Merger of info from Cashis discography

Based on the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cashis discography, I have redirected that page to Cashis#Discography. Very little information at that article was properly verified, so no merger was warranted beyond what is already included in the "Discography" section of the main article here. The history of the redirected article is still available for those who wish to double-check. — Satori Son 19:12, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Mixtapes

Cashis is listed as having 3 mix-tapes buy I know he has at least 8 (Bogish Boy Volumes 1-5), just a heads up. LDNPRS (talk) 20:13, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

where's cashis from?

Cashis is from Orange County, according to the introduction to the album "The County Hound EP" could someone clarify? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.152.145.95 (talk) 23:27, 16 September 2007 (UTC) Yes, he's from Orange County, Eminem says so on the intro to the Re-Up as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.234.95.30 (talk) 15:37, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

• He's from Chicago. He currently lives in Orange County. Niteshift36 (talk) 16:13, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Early Life

Ramone “Ca$his” Johnson. With 10 children, his grandmother and two siblings in his care, the budding MC has 13 good reasons to succeed. Growing up in Chicago’s South Side, Ca$his got caught up in the streets at an early age and became a member of the infamous Gangster Disciples gang. After watching most of his friends die from senseless violence, Ca$h moved to Irvine, Calif. with his mother in 1997. Once there, he linked with producer Rikanatti and rappers H-Long and Monique (also the mother of his oldest daughter) to form the Renegadez. The crew enjoyed local success until tragedy struck in 1999 when Monique was murdered. Despite the loss, the Cali collective tried to carry on but were hit with another blow when Ca$his was arrested for parole violation and had to serve a short sentence. Once released, he reunited with the Renegadez and refocused on music. By 2004, Ca$his was regarded as the “rap king of Orange County” and attracted the attention of Shady Records A&R, Dart Parker, who signed the young talent after hearing his mixtape, Stars With Stripes. Ca$h’s introduction to the masses, however, wouldn’t come until 2006 when he appeared alongside Eminem, 50 Cent and Lloyd Banks on “You Don’t Know,” the first single off the platinum-selling Shady Records compilation, The Re-Up.

http://www.xxlmag.com/online/?p=9629

Please add it to the article Rikanatti (talk) 23:32, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

He has 11 children, it's already sourced on the article. TomUSA 23:04, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

• Um, Tom....you realize that request is over 2 years old, right? Niteshift36 (talk) 23:53, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

File:Cashis.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Cashis.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion for the following reason: All Wikipedia files with unknown copyright status What should I do? Don't panic; you should have time to contest the deletion (although please review deletion guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page. If the image is non-free then you may need to provide a fair use rationale If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale, then it cannot be uploaded or used. If the image has already been deleted you may want to try Deletion Review This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 13:29, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

The Art of Dying

Why does the Art of Dying keep getting removed? It's all over the internet and is released in 2 weeks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Canem02 (talk • contribs) 17:14, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

• It has been getting promised for years. Dates are given and then they pass without the album. When it actually gets released, it might be notable. "All over the internet" doesn't seem to include reliable sources or significant coverage. Amazon pages and unreliable sources don't meet the requirements. Why the hurry. Put the WP:CRYSTALball away and wait for the event to actually happen. Niteshift36 (talk) 21:09, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

the official tracklist is already on itunes, there are 3 songs produced by Eminem, and the album comes out in a week... please stop removing it!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.144.55.120 (talk) 11:35, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

• Read iTunes, it even says that the track list is subject to change. When it comes out.....put it up with a reliable source (not iTunes). Niteshift36 (talk) 12:16, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

The album already leaked — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.144.55.120 (talk) 01:42, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

• And the reliable source is? Niteshift36 (talk) 01:57, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

That myself and a lot of people already have the album, and Cashis himself on his Twitter page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.7.31.11 (talk) 11:54, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

• You aren't a reliable source, (especially when you obtained it illegally). If Cashis didn't have such a horrible record of promising things that didn't happen, his Twitter might be worth using. But history has made him a liar so many times. Niteshift36 (talk) 12:20, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

• Amazing how the fanboys have their panties in such a twist to be first to put this up.......meanwhile, Wikipedia and a few blogs seems to be the only place that cares this thing will be out next week. Most truly notable artists have plenty of significant coverage by reliable sources talking about studio albums before they come out. This guy put out a charting album once, has done little more than promise a new one for years and now is being greeted with silence by the media mere days before it releases. All the poor fanboys can come up with is links to iTunes and Best Buy (who already has it marked down before it even releases). Niteshift36 (talk) 19:32, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

So basically, the real problem is that you have some personal issues that avoids this wikipedia page to be complete120.144.55.120 (talk) 06:10, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

• Nope. Fanboys are the one with a problem. But thanks for playing. Niteshift36 (talk) 12:42, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

No one is being a "fanboy" you should maybe see WP:AGF before editing. Its on bestbuy, itunes, reliable news sources that its coming out tomorrow so theres really mo point in arguing about it. STATic message me! 19:54, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

• Yes, there is fanboy behavior and you called yourself one in your sarcastic (and incorrect) edit summary. I've read AGF, but it's not a suicide pact my friend. iTunes even states that the info is subject to change (ie: a prediction). Maybe tomorrow an actual reliable source will care enough to write about it and we will see coverage, not just sales pitches. Niteshift36 (talk) 20:01, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

What label

3 current labels? Is he actually signed to the other two, or did the small, non-notable labels just handle some distribution? Niteshift36 (talk) 19:50, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

• No opinions? Ok then. Niteshift36 (talk) 14:25, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
• He is signed to all 3. But i believe one is his own. It's sort of like Eminem with Shady, Aftermath & Interscope. Canem02 (talk) 17:32, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

• At least one of those is really an indy label. The other is his, but it doesn't do much. Niteshift36 (talk) 17:42, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Well he is on the RBC website and Boogish is his own label and I don't see a source for the other one? STATic message me! 20:51, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

• I removed the unsourced one. Niteshift36 (talk) 21:07, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Album notability

Once again........another "why do you hate him" when a guideline is properly applied. Two weeks after its release, the Art of Dying has not charted at all (big shocker). There has been little, if any, significant coverage by reliable third party sources. WP:NALBUMS says: "An album requires its own notability, and that notability is not inherited and requires independent evidence. That an album is an officially released recording by a notable musician or ensemble is not by itself reason for a standalone article." That is the case with the Art of Dying. Yes, a (barely) notable artist released it, but that doesn't make it notable. The guideline says that articles about such albums that are little more than track listings (like this one) should be merged to the artist's main article. That is what I've done. So now it got reverted with the claim that there was "coverage by reliable sources. Wrong. Selling it isn't "coverage" and it certainly isn't significant coverage. A promotional interview is dubious, especially when it is just about the only coverage found. In short, this would stand a good chance at being deleted in an AfD and would stand a better chance of being voted to redirect or merege/redirect. At least redirecting now saves it from deletion. Then there is the needless personal commentary that claims I "hate him so much" Whatever dude. Seriously, is that all you can do? Niteshift36 (talk) 21:00, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

DubCNN, HipHopDX, Aftermath website, All Music. You can't let an album gain notability over two weeks. Do what you need to do though but its still a notable album due to the coverage which is alot more then other albums. Keep in mind Wikipedia is a WP:WIP. With everything about the album from this interview added it would be sizable. STATic message me! 01:14, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

• Aftermath: 3 paragraphs; 2 about Cashis and 2 sentences saying the album is being released. You actually consider 2 sentences announcing that the album is being released in "significant coverage"? Honestly? AllMusic? There is NO COVERAGE there. It simply shows that the album exists and there is a track list. Apparently, you are confused about what significant coverage is. Nobody disputes that the album exists. Saying that it exists doesn't make it notable. Telling you where to buy it isn't coverage. The HipHopDX interview is mainly about Cashis, with some talk about the album.....and all building up to a release. The article does more to establish his notability than to establish notability for the album. After the release, what reliable source has covered it? Searching for Cashis in GNews after the date of the album release has no results. Nothing. While you are telling me that Wikipedia is a work in progress, you ignore the fact that notability is required for any article. Since you seem to think that the album will someday become notable, the redirect should be a better option. If we go to AfD and it gets deleted, recreating it is a tougher battle. Face it: The album "dropped" and the media mostly yawned. It happens. Maybe his next one won't fall flat. But this one, as of now, is not notable. Niteshift36 (talk) 03:09, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

• Regarding mixtapes.......see above. Simply sourcing that a mix tape EXISTS doesn't make it notable. Ballerstatus is questionable as a source. The link has 3 paragraphs and most of that is talking about the Art of Dying. It actually says very little about the mixtape, thus failing to be "significant coverage". Again: Notability and verifiability are not the same thing. Niteshift36 (talk) 02:03, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

If its an official mixtape released by Cashis then it deserves to be mentioned, notability is not a factor in a discography of an artist in the way it is for an article. STATic message me! 02:25, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

• These guys pump out mixtapes like crazy. A non-notable album, like the Art of Dying, belongs on the list. A notable mixtape, like one with another notable artist belongs on the list. But just another mixtape? I can't see why. Niteshift36 (talk) 03:03, 16 November 2012 (UTC)]

Actually official ones don't come out all the time and when they are they still needs to be a full discography. If he had enough material for his own discography it would be mentioned but if everyone of his guest spots is mentioned official mixtapes should be too. STATic message me! 04:05, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

• Actually, I don't think the guest spots should be there. All this "featuring" crap is a joke. Show up, say "uh huh" or "yeah" a few times and you are "featured". Additionally, half of those guest spots are on non-notable songs. Not a really persuasive argument for inclusion of mixtapesNiteshift36 (talk) 04:18, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Just see Kendrick Lamar, Gucci Mane, Obie Trice and countless other hip hop artists articles. All official mixtapes are mentioned so I am readding it to the article. All this would be on his discography page if he had more stuff to put on it. STATic message me! 04:49, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

• Other artists.....don't care. Haven't edited there, didn't discuss there. What is considered consensus there doesn't apply broadly across Wikipedia. I'll probably get another opinion on ballerstatus at RSN. Niteshift36 (talk) 12:16, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

What is done on every other hip hop article where the other wikipedians that actully edit hip hop BLPs have reached consensus on what is done so just cause YOU edit this article doesnt mean it souldn't be done here too.STATic message me! 01:19, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

• Oh, so you're stating that EVERY hip hop article lists mixtapes? First, I don't believe that. Second, I still don't give a damn because it is absolutely non-binding. WP:N, WP:RS and WP:V ARE policies. Your imaginary all-encompassing consensus is not policy. BTW, I "actually edit" hip hop BLP's too my smug friend. Should I provide you diffs from say 5 other hip hop BLP subjects? Just because I'm not some fanboy editor that spends his whole time editing them doesn't mean I don't do it. Sorry to burst your superiority bubble.Niteshift36 (talk) 12:46, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Please son i would prefer if you avoided your personal attacks. Yes every BLP that doesn't have a separate discography have them mentioned in the main artists article. This is supported by a source and it is verified so you bringing up those policys is irrelevant to the discussion. You may need to check out on WP:CIVIL because that is something you are definitely not. I also know that it has nothing to do with the article but since you make it an issue you should know I do not have a single Cashis song on my ipod and i frankly hardly ever listen to him so you shouldn't assume things and call me a "fanboy" over and over because sometimes you sure make an a** of yourself. STATic message me! 17:04, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Non-notable guest show-ups

Why are we listing guest appearances on non-notable songs by non-notable artists? We're sourcing them with dubious sources and simply showing that they exist. I mean he shows up on a Dr. Dre song, yeah, that's notable and should be on the list. But Novoa or A-wax? I see no reason for it to be on the list.Niteshift36 (talk) 16:05, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

See FLs, Eminem discography, Kanye West discography, Jay-Z discography, Dr. Dre discography, ASAP Rocky discography, Snoop Dogg discography, 50 Cent discography and any other one. They list every single one, not matter who the artist and not even sourced most of the time. The fact that you want to cut this article at any chance you get is no longer surprising. STATic message me! 17:25, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

• Ok, I tried starting a discussion and your response is to start with your sarcasm. Well, at least one of us tried. I hadn't made an edit, hoping a discussion might help. Now I've just removed what doesn't have a reliable source. So much for collaboration. Niteshift36 (talk) 17:37, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

I am trying and I did not act sarcastic. A song existing is not a huge thing that needs the most reliable source. If you can hear it on the audio of the website, it is real. Fucking Rolling Stone does not have to post every single song an Independent act makes. You are just ridiculous and baffling, just leave the content. Have you even added a single bit of content to the article or do you just think of ways to make it even more of a stub. STATic message me! 17:50, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

• You're trying? Don't make me laugh. The last sentence of your first response was pure sarcasm. This second response continues your sarcasm. It doesn't matter if the song is "real". "Being real" isn't the requirement. Ever read the essay WP:TRUTH? You should. Wikipedia requires anything be WP:Verified by a reliable source. It doesn't say "except if some FA does it" . I don't know what "baffles" you about properly applying the policies and if you find them so ridiculous, then lobby to change them. Niteshift36 (talk) 18:01, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
• Do you seriously think that WP:V and WP:RS don't apply just because this is a musician? Your revert war is on the wrong side of those policies my friend. they apply. You need to follow them. If you think those sources will pass at RSN, I invite you to open a discussion there and see. Niteshift36 (talk) 18:05, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Everything is not a war dude, I do not know why you take everything so damn personal. Insulting someone's intelligence will get you nowhere on Wikipedia and to be honest I did not even care if it had an article or not, it was the WP:POINT issue you have with this artist that bothered me. It is verified because unless you are deaf you can hear the damn songs in the sources provided. Where have these sources been proved unreliable? WP:SPS can be used for such a minor thing if there is no alternative. Why do you think verified Twitters are widely used as reliable sources nowadays. STATic message me! 18:17, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

• My friend, there was nothing personal or "warlike" in the post that started this discussion. Nothing. Then you started with the sarcasm. When I called you on it, you responded with more of it. You've reverted the changes twice while insulting me here. So don't sit there and pretend that you are in any position to lecture me about behavior. WP:SPS has limited exceptions to it. Where does this fit in those exceptions? You ask where have those sources been proven unreliable? You have is backwards. You need to establish that they are reliable sources. I've already suggested that you go to RSN if you feel they actually are reliable sources. Have you tried that? Or are you just going to keep making up ridiculous standards like "you can hear it"? There are policies. I am applying and following them. You're refusing to. It's that simple. Niteshift36 (talk) 18:29, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

I am sorry but there was none. I started with it because you got all butthurt and started complaining. HotNewHipHop is referenced by many reliable sources and is one. It has not been said not to be? So you can't hear it? I guess you are deaf, I feel bad for you, I do not know why you would edit music articles then. STATic message me! 18:41, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Arbitrary break

• Ok, if you want to actually discuss this issue, let's start with the discogs source, ok? I can see why you might find it useful as a fan, but this source has been discussed at the RSN. [5] and here [6]. Mentioned here: [7]. So at least we can see that this isn't just me having an issue with the source. Niteshift36 (talk) 19:36, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

See WP:DISCOGRAPHY style guide. It says discogs can be used on discographys, especially for something as minor as this, you act like i'm linking to damn YouTube. STATic message me! 19:44, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

• Ok, you are missing the point. The styleguide doesn't declare it a reliable source. RSN is where sources like that are discussed. I linked you to discussion that support my contention. I'm clearly not the only person who has questioned it. Niteshift36 (talk) 19:49, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Dont forget that WP:DISCOGRAPHY is only a Wikiproject style GUIDELINE and not an official one, just one that the participants of the project like to use. Also, it was a proposal that "become dormant through lack of discussion by the community". So it isnt even properly recognised. -- MisterShiney ✉ 19:51, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Conflicting claims.

This is why I keep bringing up WP:CRYSTAL with this artist. The article has conflicting claims:

1) In the lead, we have: "In 2013 he is set to release several projects such as a mixtape The Loose Cannon Vol. 2 and his second studio album The County Hound 2."

2) The 2009 to present section has: "After this release he planned to release his second studio album Euthanasia, which he claimed was 65% done in September 2012"

Which is which? When he missed the May release date, I removed it and was told that was being too strict because everyone misses dates. Problem is, now we don't just have a missed date, now we apparently have a different title/album. Did Euthanaisa get scrapped? Renamed? All of this can't be correct.Niteshift36 (talk) 17:57, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

• I think a month is a sufficient amount of time to wait. Lacking any input, I guess I'll fix it myself. Niteshift36 (talk) 22:55, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

It does say in the following sentence, "On April 30, 2013, Cashis released the first single from his newly titled second studio album County Hound 2", so that explains to the reader the album was retitled. I also tweaked the sentence in point two, so now it makes a bit more sense when reading. STATic message me! 01:07, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

That rewording didn't really work. First, it was put in front of a source that says nothing of the sort. Second we don't have a source telling us it was pushed back. Do we know it wasn't just renamed or scrapped? Niteshift36 (talk) 00:56, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Well I tried, but it was better then it read before. I like the first sentence, but the next one still looks awkward. A release date was never set, he just estimated a release period of May 2013, for it so nothing was "missed". You made it read as if he forgot about the release, we do not need a source that says it was pushed back, because it was not released so we know that it was. Album's are renamed all the time and we have no source that is was scrapped completely, so we should treat it as the same album, which makes much more sense. STATic message me! 01:27, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

• Yes, the dated was missed. He had a planned date, a goal. He announced the goal. The target date came and went. There was no release. It was missed. And yes, we DO need a source because albums get renamed or scrapped all the time too. So we can't say "pushed back" if we don't know that. Are you saying that Euthanasia and County Hound 2 are actually the same album? Niteshift36 (talk) 14:28, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

What you are missing is he said that in September 2012. May 2013 was just an estimated release, not anything concrete. Which should be obvious as we do not have a magnitude of sources, reporting that May 2013 release. He only referenced in passing in one interview, that took place nine months before May 2013. "Missed" is still an incorrect and subjective word in this sense. We have no source that it was "missed" in the same way we do not have one that says it was "pushed back". At least pushed back sounds more encyclopedic and correct. STATic message me! 16:20, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

No, I'm not missing it. I'm just not trying to make excuses for him. I love how you're downplaying this "passing" mention in a interview, yet before this was such an important source. We DO have proof it was missed. We have Cashis, saying in a reliable source, that the release date would be X. It did not happen. We can prove that. We do not have any source saying it was pushed back , renamed or scrapped. You can misrepresent the essay BLUE all you want, this only obvious thing here is that he went on record with a release date and fail to do what he said. "Pushed back" is OR. Until you can prove it, it doesn't belong. Niteshift36 (talk) 21:50, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Each and every single?

Putting a single on the discography makes sense, but why are we listing each one in the article section as they release? They're not charting and aren't notable enough for independent articles, so why are they getting so much attention? I can even buy off on listing a non-notable album in the article and discography, but each non-notable single? No, I can't see why this makes sense. Niteshift36 (talk) 22:54, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

One sentence in the article body in the section about the upcoming album in is not giving it undue attention. The discography summarizes in the article so anything in the discography should be mentioned in the article body. It is not like the releases have not been covered by reliable sources, because they all have. I mean before he never released songs for retail sale on iTunes, now that he is it is worth a mention. Implying none of them will chart is WP:CRYSTAL as neither of us know that. The article is exponentially long so we should not be hunting to eliminate any content yet. STATic message me! 01:01, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

• One sentence isn't really the point. It's one sentence each time another non-notable single gets released. A little mention isn't the significant coverage that the notability standard requires. You're telling me that implying the song won't chart is CRYSTAL, but you have it backwards. It is fact that it hasn't charted. Implying that is will ever chart is the CRYSTAL here. Article length isn't an issue here....we should always be eliminating unsourced, UNDUE or promotional material, regardless of length. Niteshift36 (talk) 00:48, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

The content is in no way UNDUE, unsourced or promotional. They are not notable for their own articles yet, but are notable enough to be mentioned in his main biography, and in no way is promotional. That is like claiming the news source is promoting the artist by posting the song. And if the whole news article is dedicated to the song, it is not a "little mention" or trivial. I also never implied they will never, you are the one with the mindset the songs will never chart or have a chance to have their own Wikipedia, which is just not the right mindset to have on wikipedia. As long as the content is sourced by reliable third party sources it is informative, and worth mentioning. When there is an article for Country Hound 2 then of course the information will be trimmed here, but until then it is just fine. Might as well delete the article if we are not going to keep it up to date. STATic message me! 01:19, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

• I do see it as promotional. We are giving specific, continuing coverage to what amount to a list of non-notable singles. It's almost like a press release each time a single gets released. Saying they're not notable "yet" is, for the most part, unrealistic. The first one has been out for 4 months. It's fairly unusual for a song to finally start charting after that long. Same with the one that has been 3.5 months. Dude hasn't really charted solo since 2007. Everything he has released since then has gone without charting, including a long promised album. There is no indication that any of these singles are going to chart. If they do, fine, they might be notable. Until then, saying "yet" just ignores the provable fact that they have not charted. No, about the matter of "whole articles". Let's look at the last entry: iTunes has no article. Complex has a short paragraph and 2 sentences. I call that a mention, not an article. It's a blurb, not an article. Third release (Imma hustler) has 2 sources, neither of which are articles or even pretend to be an article. Second release uses Complex again. The two sentences really do nothing except say 'it was released and you can buy it here'. Again, not the significant coverage that notability requires. First release uses iTunes and HipHopDX, neither of which are an article at all. So yeah.....mentions is exactly what I meant. Your mindset is off. Just because something is sourced by a reliable source doesn't make it "informative" or notable. Robert Pattinson made a surprise visit to a childrens hospital yesterday. [8] that doesn't mean it automatically belongs in his bio. Wikipedia is WP:NOTNEWSPAPER. IF there is an article for County Hound 2, those dates may belong there. Of course if County Hound 2 gets only minor mentions and fails to charts, it wouldn't merit it's own article and the search term would be redirected here, as The Art of Dying properly does.Niteshift36 (talk) 14:50, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

• Odd how we spend more time covering an album that hasn't been released and singles that have passed uncharted and largely ignored by major media than we do covering the one album he did that actually charted. Niteshift36 (talk) 21:54, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

• So now we're going to resort to sarcastic edit summaries? I thought we'd actually have a discussion where you didn't start that sort of thing. Niteshift36 (talk) 00:08, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Just the fact that you never attempt to expand, or improve the article kind of gets on my nerves sometimes. In the amount of time it takes you to write up the messages here, you could have done what I just did. My bad for not remaining completely civil. STATic message me! 00:14, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

• What I could do isn't the same as what needs done. That's where we seem to disagree. I could puff up the article, but simply adding things doesn't mean it improves it. Sometimes removing things is an improvement. But I've tried discussing it and haven't been uncivil. Niteshift36 (talk) 00:21, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

But it is still what needs to be done, and we need to work together cooperatively to meet the goals of the article, which should always be getting it to GA status (whether it is possible or not) or having the most informative article. We are not talking about puffing it up, I am not sure that is possible when without the discography the article is almost a stub. You have been uncivil in some words though, more than my edit summary was. I am fully intent on discussing it, I just wish more people edited this article so we could have more opinions on this instead of us just going back and forth. Just to reiterate my point, the discography summarizes the article, so if it is a single release covered by a reliable sources it is worth including, whether it charts or not until there is an article for the album. Then we can trim it up to the important points, which I would be fully prepared to do. Considering the amount of singles, I am sure that will be soon. And the accusations of being promotional are just unfounded, see WP:PROMO. I would remove the citations to iTunes, but the only reason I kept them from the beginning is to support the retail release date of the single. Keep in mind that these are some of his first actual singles, it is not like he has a long history of not charting with them. And the fact that two singles were released recently, they could chart, hell he does not have a "Chart history" section of Billboard so any of them could have charted on the Heatseekers Songs chart, I am sure at least one of them has. But they do not keep the whole chart on the website and they are not going to create a Chart history tab for one or two songs. STATic message me! 01:29, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

• Why are you dragging up past conversations? I have been nothing but civil in THIS discussion. Can you just get over it? If you can't, then just say so and I won't even bother trying. You keep saying that sources covered these releases, but they really haven't. The best of all the ones you were using was a paragraph blurb. Nothing significant. And no, my opinion that this is turning promotional isn't invalidated just because you say so. I'm not even going further with this until you can decide if you're going to treat this discussion on it's own basis or if you're going to insist on living in the past. Niteshift36 (talk) 01:36, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

I am refering to this discussion, so calm down. It is fact, not just because I say so, take it to the BLP noticeboard or the SPAM reports, or even the COI noticeboard if you want to, it is not going to get you anywhere, because you know you are just grabbing at straws. Blurb or not, it is a paragraph by Complex Magazine, so that equals coverage in a known reliable source. And not surprising the releases have been covered in other reliable sources, which I will gladly list if you want me to take it there. In other more positive news The Marshall Mathers LP 2 is being released on November 5, and yeah the title surprised me too lol. STATic message me! 01:59, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

• Calm down? seriously? Aside from being inappropriate and sarcastic sounding, what have I said that indicated I'm anything but calm? Fact is, I've been calm and civil and your needless "calm down" starts to look sarcastic, especially when you've already been sarcastic. Why would I go to COIN? I've never indicated you have a conflict of interest. Or SPAM? No, UNDUE material isn't necessarily spam. At this point, N+BLPN isn't really the appropriate venue for this. You keep talking about "coverage by reliable sources", but you keep ignoring that it is to be significant coverage.Niteshift36 (talk) 23:33, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

You just conflicted your own claims of being civil, while saying you had partial uncivil behavior just as I have manned up and admitted to already. I have no ill feelings to you as a person or editor, you need to understand that. And I am just trying to show you it is an insignificant issue not worth all the trouble. And you are mistaken the guidelines for having an individual article on the song, and having a passing mention of its release on the artists biography/album when it relates to the needed coverage. But just for the heck of it i'll pump up the references. I do not know why you have the mindset that no other reliable sources reported the songs releases. STATic message me! 06:36, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

I never said I had "partial uncivil behavior" during this discussion. Whatever you read that you felt said that was a misinterpretation. When you direct personal comments at me, I consider them personal. "Admitting them" while continuing to make them isn't the real goal here. Even if a reliable source covers an event, that doesn't mean it automatically gets put into an article. why is that concept lost on you? Niteshift36 (talk) 12:02, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

"Aside from being inappropriate and sarcastic sounding" what does that sound like to you? In this discussion I never directed any personal attacks against you, if anything I have been the more civil, and willing to constructively discuss one. But the difference between Robert Pattinson visiting a hospital and, an artist releasing a single from their upcoming studio album, yes it's an album not just some mixtape. In fact until now Ca$his has hardly released retail singles to iTunes, that is why in the compass of his career they are definitely notable to have the mention. You really have a nescience when it comes to music articles and music standards, and when it comes to music in general. You might want to visit WP:ALBUM, WP:MUSICIAN, and the various links within to get a better grasp at what constitutes notability. Again you are missing the point that it is one sentence each in the currently minimal biography, not a full fledged other article. Cashis has also released two more songs from the album, and I did not add that information to the article. You know why? Because they are not retail released singles. The lack of supstatuly coverage, is obviously due to Cashis being on an independent, rather than Shady Records and Major label Interscope Records, but I guess that is another thing you do not understand. STATic message me! 14:22, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

• "Aside from being inappropriate and sarcastic sounding" what does that sound like to you? That should be clear. Your "calm down" was inappropriate because nobody was getting upset or angry. It sounded sarcastic because it wasn't needed. There is nothing uncivil about telling you it wasn't needed (ie inappropriate) or how is sounded to me. Nice try though. You can state you haven't directed any personal attacks. I haven't said you did. I said you were sarcastic. Sarcasm doesn't need to be a "personal attack". You know what else is sarcastic? Stuff like "I guess that is another thing you do not understand". You act like your word is final and you know everything. You don't. I have tried to be civil with you but I don't need your condescending nonsense. If you're in capable of a discussion without your sarcasm and condescension, then I have little hope of seeing anything get worked out. Niteshift36 (talk) 15:51, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

I do not know why you keep making assumptions about my tone, or "sarcasm" when I have not tried to be at all. That is just you're opinion, I have just trying to discuss, but now that I have refuted your points, you have resorted to basing your response around my tone or assumed sarcasm. But I am sorry if you took anything as sarcasm, that was never my intention. Even if I was (which I was not) there are no rules about being sarcastic, and you should not get so bent out of shape about it. STATic message me! 01:51, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

• You're correct, there is no "rule" against it. Does that mean it's civil or appropriate? No, not really. Maybe you're not trying, but that doesn't mean it's not happening. Perhaps you're so used to doing it that you no longer recognize it. I don't know. I haven't gotten "so bent out of shape" about anything. I haven't mirrored your sarcasm, been uncivil or been anything but calm. So I'm not sure where you see this imagined response, but it's not from me. You actually haven't refuted my points. You simply declared your point of view as the correct one. The notion that just because something is in a reliable source makes it suitable for inclusion is wrong-headed. Niteshift36 (talk) 02:24, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

• The latest of these is over a month old. Still no charting, still no significant third party coverage. So again I ask, why are we listing each one individually? Niteshift36 (talk) 19:54, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Because they are not separate articles, a sentence in his biography for each one does not hurt anything. Their releases were covered by undeniable reliable sources. You have yet to provide a policy or guideline backed reason against keeping the content there. Wikipedia:WikiProject Musicians/Article guidelines does not represent an opinion against it. Releasing retail singles is notable, even more so considering they are his first singles since 2011, the previous album did not even have any retail singles released. So in the context of Cashis' career each one is notable, and there is no argument against lack of reliable sources, because they are all there. STATic message me! 20:37, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

What compromise?

Rewording the same excuse isn't a compromise. Cashis stated a release date. It didn't happen. That is fact. It is proveable. It is self-evident. You keep saying it was pushed back, but have no evidence of that. It could be pushed back, renamed or simply scrapped. 3 possibilities. You are assuming one of them without a source. Get a source to show it wasn't the other two. And there's nothing subjective about it. He made a clear statement of the due date. It did not happen. What is subjective about that? It is clear cut. Niteshift36 (talk) 17:42, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

• "Smart one"? And you already start with your sarcasm and bullshit. Then I feel no need to be civil with you. Your "brilliant" rewording still leaves out that he missed the date AGAIN. This artist has a long history of setting release dates and failing to make them. It's almost more notable than the singles you keep pimping every time he lets anouther one out, while the media ignores them. Your "compromise" is just more excuse-making and minimizing. So don't tell me to read it....I read your apology for him and it sucked. So I reverted it. Niteshift36 (talk) 17:53, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

It is subjective (WP:SUBJECTIVE), because you are changing it to have an unencyclopedic negative connotation. I did not just revert your edit, I changed it to say he projected a "May 2013" release date (May 2013 is not a "day" as you put it), which is what the source says. It says later that he changed the title and a new release date was announced later in the paragraph, so there is no reason for that extra statement. There is no mention of a "push back" now, so please read instead of blindly reverting. Also nothing was "missed" he did not set a actual DATE of release, just a release period. And misses dates all the time? Album number two is coming out in four days :). Just because IPs vandalized the page adding unsourced/unreliably sourced content in the past, does not mean you have to hold a grudge against the page. STATic message me! 17:59, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

• You revert twice, then comment, and say "oh, I already commented." Give me a break. There is no negative connotation, nor is it subjective. It makes no judgement. It says he failed to make the date. The month and year is a date...........the month and year came and went. No album. Your stupid semantics about "date" are a nothing more than smoke and mirrors. I'm sure you are all smiles about the album because you're obviously a big fan. He should be paying you for all the excuse making you do. I don't give a shit if he ever produces another album. I'm talking about history, not getting giddy about the future. Niteshift36 (talk) 18:04, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Actually I saved, but you edit conflicted me, then I got the notification that you reverted me without giving a reason surprisingly. Per Calendar date: "A calendar date is a reference to a particular day represented within a calendar system. The calendar date allows the specific day to be identified. The number of days between two dates may be calculated. For example, "24 October 2013" is ten days after "14 October 2013" in the Gregorian calendar." A date is a number, May is a month, and 2013 is a year, but I do not know why I have to explain this. As I told you before, I barley listen to him, "You Don't Know" and "Layin' in the Cut" are the only songs I ever bothered downloading. I just did that because of your constant bad-faith "fan-boy" assumptions you have about any single person that edits this article, which is ridiculous and should have resulted in a WP:ANI thread a long long time ago. Just because someone contributes to an article that they want to see improved, from the shitty condition it was in before I got here, does not make anybody a fanboy as you liked to put it before. Wow and it was worse then I remember, compare this to now, and it is basically all my hard work, without any help from you. STATic message me! 18:29, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

• I gave a reason. Don't act like I didn't. Just because you didn't like the reason doesn't change that one was given. Yes, we can play all your semantics bullshit about the word date. None of that changes that FACT that he promised it would be released by a certain month in a certain year and that didn't happen. Your edits aren't about grammar, they're about apologizing. You never mentioned the grammar bit before. You just realized that you could try hanging your pedantic excuse on a new hook. Go to ANI, I don't care. You can't level any charge about conduct or bad faith that you haven't done yourself, so go brave the WP:BOOMERANG if you want. Even your sarcastic explaination about "this is a month and this is a year", complete with pointless wikilinks, show that you abandoned civility long ago and chose to use sarcasm as your primary tool. Lastly, for you to mention grudges is a joke. We have proof on this page where I've calmly discussed and you immediately become combative, blaming it on some past discussion. Even this one, you started with your sarcasm immediately. And yeah, I did call you a fanboy and I don't have to believe your denials. Niteshift36 (talk) 19:28, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
• BTW, "all your hard work" still contains a lot of junk that doesn't belong here. You've taken this from a bio to a commercial. That's not an improvement. Niteshift36 (talk) 19:30, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

The grammar was atrocious from the beginning, as I explained "the date was missed" was never used in GoogleBooks or GoogleNews, cause anyone with a high school degree should know that does not make sense. Well you did not understand what a day was, so I thought I had to explain it to you. You again, are falsy claiming sarcasm when all my points are right. You are the one that always assumes by bad-faith and resorts to incivility from the start. Hahaha they are not denials, its the truth, and you just got caught up in a personal attack again. Just because you edit an article and want it informative, and not look like a piece of shit with ONE single reliable source, like it was a year ago. As I have told you so many times, you need to stop editing music biographies if you are not going to view the article guidelines, and policies that can be found in the WikiProjects I have linked to you many many many times before and can be found at the top of the page. I would have serious backup if you did this bullshit on an Eminem, Kanye West or 50 Cent article, but no one is going to take their time watching or editing this page besides me. You also need to see WP:PROMO and WP:SOAPBOX, as this article is not a commercial or advertisement at all. If you do not think the current article is not a EXTREME improvement from this crap, then I do not see a point in discussing with you further as you do not have any sense of comprehension, logic, or eyesight, and need to reconsider your decision of editing Wikipedia. STATic message me! 16:27, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

• There's no false claims of sarcasm. I won't even bother listing the examples because it would actually be more work than you are worth. I didn't get "caught" in anything. I'm responding to you with the same level of civility you've shown me. I don't care where you think you'd have back up. I don't care about the articles on 50 cent et al. I do care about you turning this into an excuse for the artist. Don't order me to do shit my friend. You have neither the authority, nor the grounds, to do so. I've viewed those guidelines. Just because I don't agree with your personal interpretation doesn't mean I haven't. If you want to be spoken to in a civil manner, then try taking to people in a civil manner. Otherwise, they'll probably address you like the sarcastic, egocentric fanboy that you've acted like on this page. And, BTW, since you are so pedantic about word use in a discussion, I should point out that here in the US, we don't get a "degree" from high school. We get a high school diploma. My degree came from a university. Niteshift36 (talk) 17:57, 14 October 2013 (UTC)