Talk:Catholic sisters and nuns in the United States

Parochial schools "notably" lagged public after WWII?

I switched schools in 6th grade in 1946 from a near-ghetto parochial school to a highly funded, notable public school. I sat back for a year until the rest of the kids caught up with me. The "one year" lag was well-known at that time. I realize that this needs WP:RS which I don't have. I'm not sure that a broad statement should be here anyway. The teaching credentials of the teachers is definitely on-WP:TOPIC. The condition of the schools is not, IMO. Student7 (talk) 15:49, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

I was in one of those parochial schools myself in the 1940s, and I believe none of the nuns had an advanced degree of any kind--i'm not sure they even had a college degree. The priests all had seminary educations. The facilities were much poorer than the local public schools. But the point is that Dolan makes the case and is a rS. There is much more detail available in O'Donoghue, Thomas A. (2004). Come Follow Me and Forsake Temptation: Catholic Schooling and the Recruitment and Retention of Teachers for Religious Teaching Orders, 1922-1965. p. 178. -- he argues p 178 that the orders ran the schools as a fortress with the goal or protecting the religion & also as a device to get new members for the order. on p 179 he stresses how poorly trained the teachers were ("less than satisfactory" he says). Rjensen (talk) 03:56, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

And look how you turned out!  :)

I think they may have presented material that was a year ahead of public schools, for whatever reason. It may have been by accident rather than design. They just may have found more time in the day, having skipped Art, Physical Education, etc. And, yes, they did present religion, learned as rote, which may have lost time. I still think they were ahead, untrained or not. The lack of an advanced degree at the elementary level doesn't prove a whole lot IMO. The lack of a college math degree for a high school math teacher may be a different problem, but I encountered that in public school as well! Student7 (talk) 23:19, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

I attended three Catholic high schools in different states in the 1950s, and by the 1960s I was doing a PhD about Catholic schools (and other matters). I agree with the consensus of RS that they were inferior in facilities and in training of teachers. Many of my older elementary teachers never finished high school, Rjensen (talk) 07:50, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Uneducated nuns

While I'm sure that some nuns were uneducated in teaching up to a point, all nuns I personally knew had Master's Degrees. They may have attained these after WW II, however. Advanced education doesn't seem to be covered here. Student7 (talk) 15:49, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Jay Dolan says that MOST teaching nuns 1900-1920s had never attended high school, --they were still teaching into the 1960s. Am. Catholic Experience 1985 p 287. Rjensen (talk) 17:53, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Granted, I haven't proved my point that parochial schools were one year ahead of public schools at the elementary level after World War II. But neither has the "other" editor proved his point that a poorly trained nun cannot present fifth grade material to a fourth grade class and require their mastery of that material. They were routinely doing this back then in the area where I lived. It was "common knowledge."

Also, it has been a matter of irritation to the public generally that mastery of "education" in college, per se, gives any status to a teacher. Interning might, but that is another topic. Student7 (talk) 23:02, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

The Catholics elementary schools for most of the 20c (down to the 1950s) were taught by nuns the majority of whom had not graduated from high school, and as late as 1920s a majority had never reached grade 9 (says Dolan). school. They were NOT selected for teaching ability but for religiosity. The measure of their success was NOT the academic performance of their students but how religious and well behaved they were, and how seldom they married a Protestant. There were no mechanisms for parents to change the system or even to complain about it. Parents who did not like it could and did send the kids to public schools (in the major cities I think a large fraction of the public school teachers were Catholic). The system changed radically after about 1970 and is very different today. Rjensen (talk) 08:00, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

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Hello fellow Wikipedians

I added some new information (section on Expansion before 1860) and one citation in the History section about expansion before 1860.

Please review my changes and see if I have messed anything up.

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alan T. Baumler (talk • contribs) 17:57, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

thanks for the useful addition. the casation factor I think was the huge inflow of Catholic la people (Ireland. Germany etc), and especially the decision by French orders to expand in US--for example U Notre Dame (for men). Rjensen (talk) 18:55, 20 January 2020 (UTC)