Talk:Cherokee heritage groups

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Note[edit]

Make certain any Cherokee Heritage groups are not listed if they are violating any laws, like peyote distribution or illegal casinos. Any that are engaged in illegal activities may not be practicing Cherokee Heritage and may not belong here. Jeffrey Vernon Merkey 03:02, 24 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Title, content, questions[edit]

Is this to be a list? a category? Many of the smaller groups don't need articles as WikiPedia isn't a collection of links. And the larger groups are already linked to in the Cherokee article. Why shouldn't an article like this mention all Cherokee groups, whether they see themselves as a "heritage group" or not? What exactly is this article to be, and how can we avoid an AFD? Sorry to ask all these questions, but the lead doesn't really tell us anything right now, and I'm not sure where to the article is to go? Smmurphy(Talk) 03:52, 24 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, you can fix that by editing this article. This is an article for you to write all you want about Cherokee Heritage Groups and I will help. I would list them first by state designations where they are organized. Within the body of an article titled "Kentucky Cherokee Heritage Groups" you can list them and use the name Nation, Tribe, or Band since there is a disclaimer from Mike Miller and a comment "judge these groups for yourself (They run the gammit)" or words to that affect. Just do not title any articles Tribe, Nation, or Band and these other groups have an umbrella and rightful place. There's more than just 7 -- as Mike said, there are over 200. Sooner or later they may be visiting WP to write articles or others. Write what you want, I might chime in too. Jeffrey Vernon Merkey 23:54, 24 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, then I propose to move this page to something like "List of Cherokee groups" and list all notable groups. Smmurphy(Talk) 23:59, 24 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
List of Cherokee Heritage Groups aligns with the Cherokee Nation statement by Mike Miller, and provides the WP:V endorsement (along with 200 verifiable heritage groups based on these statements). Could not be more wide open. We just keep the Federal tribes in their articles and the Heritage Groups in their articles. This same structure will work for all the other tribes as well. Jeffrey Vernon Merkey 05:33, 25 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This is the same discussion we are having at Talk:Cherokee. Please answer my question at Talk:Cherokee#Verification with Reliable Sources. Smmurphy(Talk) 05:48, 25 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Non-Federally Recognized Groups[edit]

This article is about non-Federally recognized Cherokee Heritage Groups. Please do not tag as the article is intended to provide a place on Wikipedia for non-Federally Recognized Cherokee Heritage Groups who meet the criteria for notability to be included. There is a on-going debate on the main Cherokee article. Jeffrey Vernon Merkey 23:23, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Rio Grande Cherokees in the Rio Grande Valley of southern Texas facing the Rio Grande (US-Mexican border) have demanded federal recognition as a legally "bona fide" tribe in the 1990's and early 2000's without much success. The Cherokee Nation closely examined in a geneohistorical investigation on the origins of the Rio Grande Cherokees and came to find these applicants aren't exactly in line on what they are talking about. The tribe fought to get 160-300 square acreage of land in the river facing Mexico, as well the tale of their ancestors arrived in the 1830's when the Rio Grande Valley was Mexican land until the 1840's when the U.S. officially annexed the disputed region. + 71.102.53.48 (talk) 06:55, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Heritage groups vs Non-recognized tribes[edit]

I realize this was started as a place for Non-recognized groups. I began editing without reading the talk page. However, I believe since it is named "Cherokee Heritage Groups" it should be about that. Alternatively, the name could be changed to Cherokee Non-recognized Tribes, and another page created for Cherokee Heritage Groups. I appreciate the work already done. However, there is a very clear difference between a real Cherokee Heritage Group and a Non-recognized tribe. In my opinion, it is more important than ever that people know the difference between tribes, bands, tribal groups, heritage groups, Cherokee Nation and Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma. These are often and easily blurred, which makes things easier for the imposters. There are clearly defined differences. I began my editing by attempting to explain some of these differences. If my edits to date need to be undone and another page created, I have no problem with it, as I should have read this talk page before I began. I would very much like to continue the work on this page if possible. Odestiny (talk) 02:20, 12 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The unrecognized tribes that are listed on this page as heritage groups need to be moved to the "Cherokee" article or to a separate article on "Cherokee Tribes not federally recognized" or similar. They are not heritage groups, they are tribes. The fact that they are not federally recognized as a tribe does not make them a heritage group. Calling them heritage groups adds to confusion, and is also biased. The fact is, there are some with legitimate claims that are still moving through the legal and political process. The problems associated with illegitimate tribes should not mean all currently unrecognized tribes become labeled as "heritage groups". Even the federally recognized tribal chiefs have acknowledged this. Odestiny (talk) 18:09, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cherokee American Heritage Organization, California[edit]

In California, it is thought of the state has over 600,000 persons of Cherokee ancestry, the Cherokee-American Heritage Organization speaks for the state's Cherokee community. The CNO recorded about 20,000 enrolled tribal members in the state and to be "Cherokee" has a more ethnic or cultural meaning than actually belonging to the Cherokee Nation or Eastern band tribes. Cherokee Indians began to settle in California as early as the 1850s, later came the large migration of Cherokees out of Oklahoma during the dust bowl from the early 1920's peaked in 1933-37 to end in the late 1950's. Ther Cherokees were employed in agriculture throughout the San Joaquin Valley in farm towns or in cities like Fresno and Bakersfield, while others went to find industrial employment during World War II in the Los Angeles-Long Beach, San Francisco-Oakland and San Diego areas. + 71.102.53.48 (talk) 07:00, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Update: I don't seem to find the CAHOC on Google, must been a fictious group or the chances are they folded operations. The Cherokees of Northern Central Valley of California claims to represent the Cherokee people in this part of the state. http://ncentralvalleyca.cherokee.org/ On Facebook, the Cherokee Society of the Greater Bay Area is based in San Francisco and surrounding area. 71.102.1.101 (talk) 06:32, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Removed Heritage group listing[edit]

Can anyone tell me what's wrong with this removed edit? Maybe not every single entries had lacked enough sources, although one can search the web and find anything pertaining to the edits. I don't believe it needs total removal without investigation and agreement. Here's the listing I found in the article's edit history. + Mike D 26 (talk) 13:05, 21 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(note: Everyculture.com Cherokee page has the listing for this heritage group, including mail address and phone number).

Cherokee Nation of New Jersey.

Founded in 1997. Seeks to educate people about the American Indian who is of African, Hispanic, Asian, and European mix, and to foster goodwill.

Contact: Chief C.W. Longbow.

Address: c/o C. W. Longbow, 1164 Stuyvesant Avenue, Irvington, New Jersey 071112392.

Telephone: (201) 374-1021.

  • ATO (Auniwayina Tsalagie Organization)- Cherokee Heritage Tribal Group in the Midwestern, Northeastern and West coast states.
  • Cherokee-American Heritage Organization in California.
  • California Cherokee Heritage Groups (like the Cherokee Nation of California based in Torrance near Los Angeles, the Cherokees of California (official web site: http://www.cherokeesofcalifornia.com/ ) based in Marysville and the California Band of Cherokee in Fresno).
  • Tsalagi Nvadali of New Mexico and Arizona.
  • Rio Grande Band of Cherokees based in southern Texas.
  • Mexican Cherokee Heritage Groups in 12-14 Mexican states (the Cherokees of Baja California, Chihuahua, Coahuila, Colima, Durango, Guanajuato, Jalisco, Nayarit, Nuevo Leon, Queretaro, Sinaloa, Sonora and Tamapalius).
  • New Mexico Cherokee Townships-
Albuquerque Cherokee Nation Township (Cherokee Nation).
  • Arkansas Cherokee Heritage Groups.
  • Missouri Cherokee Heritage Groups.
  • Kentucky Cherokee Heritage Groups-
Southern Cherokee Nation (Federally Unrecognized).
Kentucky Cherokee Heritage group (Henderson County, Kentucky).
  • Tennessee Cherokee Heritage Groups.
  • Texas Cherokee Heritage Groups (like the Cherokee Cultural Society based in Houston).
  • Northern Louisiana (Missouri) Cherokee Heritage Group.
  • Southern Cherokee Nation Heritage Group (across the Southeastern US) from Virginia to Florida to Louisiana.
  • Southern Cherokee Confederacy in Alabama.
  • Chickamauga Band of Cherokees in Illinois and Indiana.
  • Western US Cherokee Heritage Groups (in Colorado, Wyoming, Utah, Nevada, Arizona, Idaho, Montana, Oregon and Washington).
  • Canadian Cherokee Heritage Groups (many live in Alberta, as well in Ontario and elsewhere in Canada).
Well that's a good example of what's wrong. It is NOT a heritage group. They describe themselves as "an intertribal American Indian nation". (see http://www.standswithsong.com/Vision.html) They have a chief, David Sands, who is a singer, dancer and minister. The same is true of the others removed. They refer to themselves as tribes, not heritage groups. In addition, you'll notice in the link to the American Indian Heritage Support Center, some of these listed as "suspect tribes", not heritage groups. Odestiny (talk) 16:07, 21 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I found another Cherokee group on the everyculture.com page:

Cherokee Cultural Society.

The purpose is to build community, preserve Cherokee heritage, and perpetrate the culture. Publishes a monthly email newsletter Cherokee Messenger.

Address: P.O. Box 23187, Houston, Texas 77228.

Telephone: (713) 866-4085.

Is this a faux-Indian tribal group or a bonafide cultural organization representing the Cherokee in Texas? + Mike D 26 (talk) 19:24, 23 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Good call! In my opinion, this is a bonafide cultural organization that would fit as a heritage group. Thank you. Odestiny (talk) 03:53, 24 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I found an entry described a Cherokee heritage group based in South Carolina added in the article: Cherokee Indian Association of America - Greenville, South Carolina. It had a weblink to the heritage group's official web site to vindicate they are authentic "Cherokee" and offically recognized by the state of South Carolina. I'm not too sure on the authenticity and official recognition of the C.I.Asso. of America. + 71.102.10.169 (talk) 06:40, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Removed from list groups claiming to be tribes or nations, and those petitioning to become tribes or nations. This article is about "Cherokee Heritage groups". Odestiny (talk) 21:36, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The current number of unrecognized Cherokee tribes are over 200, and the CNO considers most but not all of them to be fraudulent, unauthentic and even criminally involved. It's becoming further complicated and difficult for the Cherokee tribes to accept them as legitimate or have any evident Cherokee heritage at all. Only 3 are federally recognized by the US government: the CNO, UKB and Eastern band of Cherokee in North Carolina. Any other Cherokee tribe can't declare themselves "federally recognized" and if they do, that is technically illegal for the CNO to take federal legal action. + 71.102.7.77 (talk) 06:31, 18 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Addition: On Facebook, an organization called the Valley of the Sun Cherokees based in Phoenix, Arizona claims to represent the Cherokee community in Arizona. http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/Valley-of-the-Sun-Cherokees/100701063355029 In Colorado a social group the Colorado Cherokee Circle represents Coloradans of Cherokee heritage.71.102.1.101 (talk) 06:30, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No Tribes[edit]

I believe this article should focus on legitimate Cherokee Heritage Groups rather than on false tribes. There can be an article on false tribes if needed, but to load this article full of discussion of that topic rather than what the title is about is misleading. As mentioned in the article and is also on the Cherokee Nation official website, "the Cherokee Nation encourages people of Cherokee heritage to take pride in their heritage and become active in heritage groups even if they are not eligible for citizenship. The Cherokee Nation does not question anyone’s claim of heritage or ancestry." All this information about tribal recognition or non-recognized tribes is irrelevant to Heritage Groups. The article clearly defines the difference between a heritage group and a tribe of any kind. It's my intention to move or remove the material on tribal citizenship and false tribes from this article unless someone has a good reason why not.Odestiny (talk) 03:36, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Original Research[edit]

We should strive especially in contentious articles to stick to the sources. Large sections of this article smell like privileged personal knowledge. I would invite others to read through and add the {{fact}} tag to a few sentences that seems suspect. Wjhonson (talk) 20:57, 1 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's becoming more and more a biased, unsourced, blog.Odestiny (talk) 21:51, 9 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Central Band of Cherokee[edit]

The Central Band of Cherokee were one type of heritage group, featured on a History Channel documentary available on Youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHNRf9H7nD4&NR=1 actually believe the theory on themselves are of ancient Israelite origins, and call themselves the "Lost Tribe of Israel". The Central Band of Cherokee are reputedly controversial in the Native American community for quite some time, due to a high porportion of its members are of mainly European descent calling themselves "Indians" or "Native Americans", but to include a philo-Semitic Christian Zionist ideology of the Cherokees should reunite with the Jewish people of the world and to reconnect with the modern-day state of Israel instead. 71.102.1.101 (talk) 07:47, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Serious Issues[edit]

Sorry I don't have time to go through this thoroughly right now, but at first look, this article seems to be inaccurately conflating heritage groups (which can be anything from CNO Satellite Communities to fake tribes trying to get a casino) with cultural and medicine societies that exist within real tribal communities. I'll come back to it, but this could use more eyes on it. - CorbieV☊ 23:28, 6 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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