Talk:Circuit theory

Deleted link[edit]

Two users introduced links to puzzles. I deleted them because they are completely off-topic. Maybe they fit better in an article about topology and math problems?

First link: Impossible Puzzle, which is nominated for deletion Second link: Water, Electricity and Gas, which is redirected to Three cottage problem - the same problem which is nominated for deletion. Cbdorsett 16:49, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Parts of a circuit[edit]

These comments are directed to electrical and electronic circuits -- I regret to admit that I do not know what the correct usages are in pneumatic or hydraulic circuits.

These comments will also not address microwave or radio communication links or emerging optical devices.

1. Source of Energy

Source of Operating Electrical Energy, such as

Electromechanical generators, storage cells, primary cells, solar cells, thermal cells, etc. These are usually not active components-- but it does occasionally occur.

2. Transmission Lines :

A very important special case for the relatively long-distance transmission of bulk electrical energy or signals typically data or audio), such as -

-- For signals - Coaxial cables, twisted-pair cables.

-- For energy transmission - Local and long-distance utility transmission lines.

3. Active Components :

Devices capable of influencing or regulating the flow of electrical energy according to externally applied signals, such as -

-- Vacuum tubes, simple, like in old-time radios and TVs and complex-cavity, such as the magnetron tubes in the domestic microwave oven.

-- Transistors, typically silicon junction, MOS, thin-film, plastic, etc as well as emerging new types of transistors recently announced involving hafnium films.

4. Passive components :

Devices complementing the regulation of the flow of electrical energy by the active components according to their intentionally exploited natural electrical characteristics, such as -

-- Resistors (Energy dissipation)

-- Capacitors (Static energy storage)

-- Inductors (Dynamic energy storage)

They also include components which receive and dissipate or transform electrical energy to other forms of energy, such as -

-- Incandescent or LED lights

-- Motors, solenoids and MagLev devices

-- Welding machines

-- Loudspeakers

5. Transformers :

Devices capable of passively altering the tension (voltage) or charge flow (current) in an electrical circuit. They may also concurrently electrically isolate one part of a circuit from another.

This distinction gets blurred in the magnetic amplifier and other "parametric" (non-linear) devices.

6. Interconnections :

Devices (usually, but not always, wire-like) used to interconnect the above, such as -

-- Ccopper traces on wiring boards

-- Aluminum traces on integrated circuit chips

-- Appliance cords

-- Point-to-point wiring in electronic assemblies

-- Cabling within larger electrical assemblies

-- Utility power-line cables

-- Telephone wiring, etc.

This commentary could go on to other parts of the article, but I think it is sufficient to say that those comments in the article dealing with electricity are weak and misleading and need a through workover by someone knowledgable in the art -- actually, someone knowlegable in ALL of the arts so as to draw distinctions, comparisons and analogs correctly.

Circuit Theory[edit]

So far as electrical/electronic circuits are concerned, the correct term for "circuit theory", that is, the behavior of electricity in "loops" is "linear network analysis"

Linear network analysis, in its fully developed form, is an extremely complicated subject to which entire careers, lives and many tens of thousands of pages have been devoted in the twentieth century. See Ernst Adolph Guillemin.

This article should NOT mention "theory" -- it is just a very short introduction to what is usually called (in electricity) "electrical circuits".

Undid unsigned revision 108258398 by 72.155.49.153 (talk) Cbdorsett 05:27, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The page called Electrical circuit is nothing but a redirect to Electrical network. My attempts to edit those two pages so that users can read about electrical circuits on a page called "Electrical circuit" have all been reverted. The page called Circuit is a redirect to about twenty different pages. I created this page so that something can be written about circuits in general without heavyhanded reversionary editing.

Wikipedia does not yet have a page entitled Ernst Adolph Guillemin. If he was in fact notable in his field, start a page. Let me know if you want some help with the technical wiki details.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Guillemin

Your proffered definition of "circuit theory" as --

"Circuit theory is the theory of accomplishing work by means of routing matter through a loop"

is incorrect, chiefly because no "work" (as defined in physics) must necessarily be accomplished as the end goal. The end goal may be the transmission or modification of signals -- data, audio, etc, where "work" is entirely a secondary matter or side-effect.

I challenge the entire article as confusing, generally misleading and as adding no useful information to the "wiki"-pot. Some diligence is required, after all, to keep the "wiki"-pot from containing mulligan stew. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.63.239.173 (talk) 01:12, 16 February 2007 (UTC).[reply]

If you would care to make any specific suggestions for improvement, we will work on them. If you think something is misleading, say what it is. Regarding the definition: I think it is accurate in so far as it goes. How exactly can we transmit information or modifying signals without causing matter to move? If the monitor does not light or the speaker does not move air molecules, you will not receive any information, right? If the circuit modifies an electromagnetic signal, the motion of photons is affected, right? The definition has nothing to do with how people use the work, and makes no value judgments as to what work is primary and what work is "secondary." I'm sorry if the article confused you, but if we work together, maybe we can clear it up so that nobody else is confused. Cbdorsett 14:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have some specific reservations and one specific suggestion.

1. The definition suggests that there is some sort of super circuit theory (SCT to coin a term just for this discussion) that includes electronic, hydraulic and pneumatic circuits (and perhaps unnamed other types). As far as I know, there is no SCT. You cannot take a college course in SCT. You cannot get a degree in SCT. There are no specialists of SCT. Knowledge of SCT is never mentioned as a requirement for a job. There are no unique insights that arise from SCT. There are no testable predictions that arise from SCT that do not arise individually in the included theories. I do not mean to say that SCT could not be created; I just mean to say that it has not (to my knowledge) been created. Instead, what we have are several types of circuit theory that share a few equations and a few analogies. Even though it would be convenient here in wikipedia to have a SCT and thus avoid duplicating effort in each type of circuit theory, I don't think that is enough to bring it into existence.

2. Sometimes the purpose of a circuit is to prevent work. For example a filter might have the purpose of rejecting energy outside a particular frequency band.

3. The word accomplish connotes, to me, that there is some human purpose to the circuit. Sometimes circuits are created accidently and have no purpose.

4. Real circuits do, inevitably, disapate energy, but the focus of electric circuit theory is more about predicting voltages and currents and sometimes using the predicted voltages and currents to predict energy usage.

5. If it has the word theory in it and it is a scientific theory then it makes testable predictions. The definition should mention what the theory predicts. For example, electronic theory predicts node voltages and branch currents (and other things).

I guess my ultimate recomendation is that this page be replaced with pages for each type of circuit theory ans a disambiguation page to the various circuit theories.Constant314 (talk) 15:01, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have boldly redirected the page. Spinning Spark 21:32, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Magnetic circuits and routing matter[edit]

The addition of magnetic circuits to this article has made an entire nonsense of the supposed definition. SpinningSpark 23:06, 5 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I suppose we mention thermal circuits too.Constant314 (talk) 01:01, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I would suppose that we should find a source that tells us that circuits should be classified in this way at all. Such a source is likely to have a definition that works and a list to go with it. SpinningSpark 06:26, 6 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]