Talk:Clamp (manga artists)/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Clamp Cluster

Clamp Cluster had 11 members. It was heavily believed that the creator of Fruits Basket was one of them.

^ Eh? Is that true?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.143.69.219 (talk) 14:11, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Mokona's name

I'll start a new topic for this one. Mokona's (former) name is written as Mokona Apapa for both her English-ized and Japanese name. I believe that it should be switched like all the others, since that would make sense?

Also, in the explanation for the name change, it says Mokona wanted to drop her surname. I believe Mokona is her surname, thus she dropped her first name--Apapa. Am I wrong? --Kyuu 05:40, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

^I'm fairly certain Appapa was her surname. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.156.67.42 (talk) 18:46, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Job descriptions and extensions

Whoever said this article needs a clean-up, I agree with. I think we should include a job description of each member, since they have specific tasks that they are akin to. Clamp also uses a wide variety of plot techiniques, symbolism, and a bunch of stuff that isn't addressed, as well as genres of manga they work on, etc.

Those are some suggestions on how to fix up the article. I'm willing to do a lot of it, but I'd like some help, if that's possible. Right now, it pretty much covers the fact they exist opposed to what they do. Does anyone else have any suggestions?

P.S. - Duklyon Cafe's address is duklyon-cafe.org, not clampgraphics.com. The latter link works, but it was always the former link that refers to that site.--Kyuu 05:27, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I also changed the name of Gohou Drug from Legal Drug to Lawful Drug in their currents section. Legal Drug is the name that TokyoPop chose to translate the series into, but if you look on any scans, Clamp has always translated it to Lawful Drug, so I think it would only be fair to respect them and label it that as well for at least the section not dealing with the English translations.

titles

Yipdw 09:20, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC): Should Japanese titles be given for all CLAMP titles present on this page, or only for those with English titles that differ substantially (i.e. not just a transliteration of kana)?

Also, what are the correct readings for 特 and 警 in 学園特警デュカリオン (Dukylon: CLAMP School Defenders)? I know that they have on-readings of トク and ケイ, but putting them together doesn't register in my mind or in any Japanese dictionary I've tried.

Blood types and astrological signs

Why are these informations given ? Unless their necessity is explained, they look really very bizarre... Rama 23:47, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I removed the birthsigns. As the birth date's are given I see no point of keeping them. Uwilldrop 13:40, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

the japanese really believe in the relevance of these. they haven't any taboos on the occult. dunno if it's relevant or not HERE, but just throwing that out there.

On their Clamp no Kiseki release, for their profiles, they had their birthdates and bloodtypes (and place of birth, I believe). I agree astrological signs are needless, but blood types shouldn't be thrown out if they're on official releases.--Kyuu 05:30, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

So what if the Japs have no Taboo for the occult? This is an Encyclopedia, not Witch Weekly. There are guidelines that state not to include irrelevant info and the blood types are completely irrelivent for this article. Can you see the page of the members of Jackass listng their bloodtypes? This is an artical about CLAMP and I do not see how the listing of their blood types is even distantly relivant for this. jeez. why dont we list their freakin lucky numbers? that is at least as relevent for this article as blood types are. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 211.28.235.44 (talk) 14:08, 11 January 2007 (UTC).

Please see Japanese blood type theory of personality for an explanation. It is extremely common for blood types to be listed among the vital facts of Japanese celebrities and even made-up characters. —pfahlstrom 00:29, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Collaborations

Should anime based on CLAMP series be put here? They haven't been included in the past, but with this last change I'm wondering if things should change... -Yipdw 20:58, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Never mind -- I did some research, and I think I see the distinction now. Sweet Valerian isn't a work based off of another CLAMP work; they really did do original character designs. -Yipdw 20:59, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

U.S. bias

And yet another U.S. biased article. Why is this article centered around the U.S. publication of CLAMP's work? For example, it says that only one volume of RG Veda has been published, while there are nine more volumes to be published. Excuse me? All ten volumes have been published in Japan. And what's worse, in the "In Progress Works" section, the number of volumes published in the U.S. comes first, while the number of volumes published in Japan is between brackets. Why?

In my opinion, a section on how many of CLAMP's works have been published in the U.S. is fine, but it is just ridiculous to make it the central part of the article. CLAMP is Japanese, their works are originally published in Japan, and the Japanese market is the one that matters to them. Other markets come second.--Pecholobo 22:00, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Those who expanded the article to include information on international publication are United States citizens; therefore, while they will know about the status of CLAMP works in Japan, they're also interested in the release of CLAMP works in their own country. I personally keep up with CLAMP releases in Japan and the United States, but nowhere else, as I just don't have the time to do so.

If you have a problem with this, feel free to expand the offending sections to include information about releases worldwide.

Nevertheless, I think it's fair and logical to suggest that the status of CLAMP works in Japan should come first, and other countries second; I'll get to work on switching that around. -Yipdw 23:54, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

My problem is not that there is only information about Japanese and American editions, but that the American editions are given more importance than the original ones. I understand that U.S. citizens are mainly interested in American editions, just like people from other countries are mainly interested in their own editions - that's not what I was complaining about. My only problem is with how the article is presented. Thanks for working on that. :) --Pecholobo 14:40, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yeah -- I think I misread your original comment. Sorry about that :) -Yipdw 18:13, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

No true anime fan or unbiased individual would consider using the Anglicized titles and releases of books using those title. Seemed fitting. --Jadenguy

Clover incomplete?

I didn't realize this, as it seemed complete to me, even if it was lacking backstory. Any information to support this? --Jadenguy

Clover is listed as an incomplete project because that's how it is listed on www.clamp-net.com which is the official website. I, however, have postulated that this is a symbolic move rather than an indication that they intend to create more. It's impossible to say though Zephyrprince 11:18, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
- CLAMP states in volume 2 of CLAMP no Kiseki that there would have been a fifth and sixth volume, but the magazine that Clover was serialized in went under and because of such a circumstance the series is thus incomplete. Soulsteelgray 22:00, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
  - Thats so freaking interesting. Was there any indication that they might ever pick it back up in that article? Zephyrprince 01:36, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
    - Ageha did say that she'd like to resume the series should she ever get the chance. Soulsteelgray 22:18, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
      - Awesome. I sure hope to read more clover some day.--JadenGuy 23:40, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
        Clamp is notorious for not finishing series. They should really stick to short-term projects.

Different numbers of volumes?

Just to make sure I'm not going crazy...

Look at the Cardcaptor Sakura entries in CLAMP#International_publishing_status_of_CLAMP_works.

The CLAMP-NET database has 24 entries for Cardcaptor Sakura, but 12 of those are reprints (marked with 新装版), which would mean that the series is really only 12 volumes long. Did JBC split the series up into 24 volumes, or is this inaccurate information? -Yipdw 07:39, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

They re published them. Authintic manga's and the different way. Dont know what that is called. A total 24 different ones. But 2 for every one. (22:27, 27 April 2006 (UTC))

Plagiarism?

Whoever keeps adding this section on plagarism on doesn't seem to have substainal proof, considering this person is noting similarities in plot and art with other stories, which seem rather obscure. To be perfectly honest, I don't think this is enough to say Clamp is plagarising just because their works are things in common with others. For example, this person says that a character in one manga resembles Sakura Kinomoto in CCS. The thing is, there are other characters in other stories who also look like Sakura (like Alice Seno in Alice19th or the main character of Dream Saga), yet nobody has been accused of plagarism in those cases.

I've tried to just hide it (with < ! -- tag)so when the person tries add it again, they would at least assert themselves in this page, but they just added it again somewhere else and totally missed the message. And just a small detail, but this person's grammar is awful.

I've commented out the section again and left a note in that user's talk page. I agree that most of these assertions sound like POV more than anything. There will always be similarities between one work and another. With all the manga, anime, or even any modern art that has been created, one is just bound by now to "accidentally plagiarize" another. This is the first time I've heard of this concerning CLAMP. (They were originally a doujinshi circle, sure, so they probably had inspirations from other series, but I wouldn't call any of their present works plagiarism.) --Crisu 13:36, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Rating

on the articles one the manga should there be their ratings such as A, Y, T, OT etc (70.244.114.211 22:30, 27 April 2006 (UTC))

Cleanup

The external links contain a lot of things that WP:EL advises against. I think a few of them should actually be references instead. Also, I think the page is getting rather long, the most prominent thing I'd suggest to split into its own article is definitely the "International Publishing Status" section. Any other suggestions? Melesse 07:47, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Since someone had already taken it upon themselves to remove the "International publishing status" section, I have now moved it to its own article. --KagamiNoMiko 15:41, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Night Head

Is anyone willing to cite where they found the information about their contribution to Night Head? Makoto Tateno seems to have done the illustrations for all 8 volumes of the series (reference). Or are we talking about another series? Because I'm confused. Kyuu 23:17, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I guess it would be more correct to call them novel illustrations; I think I'll fix that right now. I have the books, they do definitely have CLAMP illustrations. Melesse 09:59, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Capitalisation and WP:MOS-TM

CLAMP was batch renamed to Clamp once [1] "per WP:MOS-TM." I reverted this because it was unprecedented way of capitalising CLAMP. If anyone is interested, there may be something wrong with either WP:MOS-TM, the way it was interpreted, or even actually the way CLAMP has been written all along. —Tokek 02:10, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually there was nothing wrong with the way WP:MOS-TM was interpreted. Clamp is a trademark, it is officially rendered in all-uppercase, yet it is not an acronym. Hence it is akin to the REALTOR/Realtor example given in the Manual of Style. - Cyrus XIII 13:30, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

There's one in three things that could be wrong here. —Tokek 11:32, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

The realtor example in WP:MOS-TM is a rather inappropriate comparison here. REALTOR® is a trademark for an association of realtors. The article is "Realtor" because it's about realtors. CLAMP is not a trademark for a clamp. This article is not about clamps, but CLAMP. -- Buuneko 18:05, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

It's a complicated situation. I think the best solution would be to have WP:MOS-TM fixed first. The official website uses CLAMP exclusively, and the article's interwiki links are pretty much self explanatory:

[[ca:CLAMP]]
[[cs:CLAMP]]
[[de:CLAMP]]
[[es:CLAMP]]
[[eo:CLAMP]]
[[fr:CLAMP]]
[[id:CLAMP]]
[[it:CLAMP]]
[[lt:CLAMP]]
[[ms:CLAMP]]
[[ja:CLAMP]]
[[pl:CLAMP]]
[[pt:CLAMP]]
[[ru:CLAMP]]
[[fi:CLAMP]]
[[sv:CLAMP]]
[[th:แคลมป์]]
[[zh:CLAMP]]

Also, I am not aware of any published works by CLAMP that uses the "Clamp" typeset in it. The "Clamp" typeset, while a minority, is not without precedent however. For example, the NYTimes page linked near the bottom of the article uses the "Clamp" typeset.--Tokek 13:56, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

If you feel that the Manual of Style needs improvement, then by all means, suggest changes to it. But until such changes have been made, please do not work against good faith edits made by your fellow Wikipedians with the present guidelines in mind, as this is neither very productive nor in the spirit of honoring consensus. You should also note, that while the basic principles are the same, the individual Wikipedias might have different sets of rules for more specific issues, i.e. trademarks. Also, it would come as no surprise, if some indeed had rules to avoid all-uppercase capitalization and they simply had not been applied yet - see the English/biggest Wikipedia until a few weeks ago.

Finally, before you put in for any guideline or policy changes, you should ask yourself, why a general purpose encyclopedia should honor non-standard capitalization in the first place. After all, other independent publications (like the New York Times) do not do that either, in pursuit of a coherent style and with their readers in mind. - Cyrus XIII 15:20, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

"please do not work against good faith edits made by your fellow Wikipedians" I do not know which actions you are referring to in this accusation.—Tokek 04:38, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Re-introducing stylized typography to this article, as well as objecting to the move of its related categories. WP:MOS-TM clearly applies in this case and it is based on a previously established consensus. Hence it is not in the spirit of Wikipedia to disregard it based on personal preferences. - Cyrus XIII 05:00, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I just explained that the usage of the "Clamp" typeset was not without precedent, since I am seeing this from both sides. Disagreeing with any idea of going on edit wars and such before WP:MOS-TM could be changed. And the first thing you do is throw accusations.

Re: Category rename -- you introduced the category rename proposal, it was turned down by the community, and I happened to be involved in that debate. The debate already ended and I don't see how it is very relevant to discussions about any edit disputes going on for this specific article.

Re: External links -- Your edits were not "edits made by your fellow Wikipedians," it was a batch rename job done on the whole article by only a single Wikipedian (you). After your edits, I worked on the external links section because I saw a problem with that. I modified (often restored) the typeset used in the external links section so that it corresponded with the usage found in the destination of those links, mixing the two typesets "CLAMP" and "Clamp" for this section. For example, in the New York Times ext. link, I kept your "Clamp" typeset since they used that, but since all other pages that were linked used the CLAMP typeset, I used that for the ext. link description. Since Wikipedia style policy doesn't extend beyond Wikipedia, there's no need to create a sense of illusion of a standardization existing outside of Wikipedia when there isn't one. In some other articles I've seen, sometimes a Wikipedian goes so far as to swap out completely different words with the one that they want to advocate in the external links section, and I think this case is similar in nature. In general, as an information source I think Wikipedia should work on avoiding unnecessary misrepresentation or censorship of information. But I suppose it's a judement call. If after considering that portion of the WP:MOS-TM that you refer to, the External links section, and any drawbacks for the article, and you still want to change that section's typeset, by all means go ahead. After all it's easy for anyone to throw accusations and make edits to articles here at Wikipedia. —Tokek 11:19, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I must disagree that CLAMP is a trademark. It is a pseudonym. The MOS is currently silent on idiosyncratic capitalization in personal names and pseudonyms. Since MOS-TM does not apply, I suggest it be moved back until the MOS is updated by consensus. —pfahlstrom 18:09, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

And what exactly would make the four people working under the name "Clamp" any different from the four people working under the name "Kiss"? Essentially, Clamp is a band of sorts, just working with a different medium. Additionally, several Clamp works got the group's name in their title and applying title case to them (as common with published works in literature, music and film) would still break consistency with all-capital occurrences of the name. - Cyrus XIII 19:29, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Cyrus, your campaign against the spelling CLAMP does not have the support of the community or the world at large. Applying guidelines for musicians and corporations, as you are doing, is stretching things. If you want to seek consensus for a guideline that will apply, by all means do so. Do not just go ahead and change things (making them not easily reversible, by redirecting CLAMP to Clamp when WP:PRECISION does not apply (since KISS is an acronym for Keep It Simple, Stupid, the redirect is needed; CLAMP is not ambiguous)) without trying to build consensus first. —pfahlstrom 22:04, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Inōe Yuzuru, CLAMP member or not?

I often see Inōe Yuzuru listed as a twelfth CLAMP member, but on the dōjinshi in which she participated, she is credited as a guest. So, since the first part of the article is listing Yuzuru and since I am not able to change that part of the text, I was wondering if someone could do it for me. I mean, once I would find back the donjinshi in which she participated and would have scan the part with the credit to prouve my claims, of course. ^_~ - Mireime 03:48, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Oki, I found how to edit the main text, but I'll wait for the confirmation before doing anything to it. - Mireime 04:25, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was No move.--Hús ö nd 01:37, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Clamp (manga artists) → CLAMP — This article was moved from its title of nearly 3 years standing without an attempt to build consensus, and should be moved back. See below. —pfahlstrom 22:54, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Survey

Add # '''Support''' or # '''Oppose''' on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~. Please remember that this survey is not a vote, and please provide an explanation for your recommendation.

Survey - in support of the move

Support The mangaka group CLAMP always writes their name as CLAMP, never as Clamp. WP:MOS-TM does not apply because CLAMP is not a trademark; it is a group pseudonym. Search of the Google news archive does show several usages of Clamp([2] [3] etc), but CLAMP is much more common, both within([4] etc) and outside ([5] [6](USA Today) [7](Associated Press) etc) the manga community. An article's title on other language editions of Wikipedia may be irrelevant, but it is CLAMP on 17 of 17 other-language Wikipedia articles that have the title in the Roman alphabet. Furthermore, there are many articles in the Category:CLAMP and renaming it to a cumbersome, unnecessarily disambiguated title would be unsightly. —pfahlstrom 22:56, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Support It's not sure whether WP:MOS-TM applies, and since CLAMP is more widely used, the article should be where people expect it. --KagamiNoMiko 15:03, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Support I must be reading a different MOS-TM than the ones below, it certainly sounds like this is a case where all caps IS supported. Kyaa the Catlord 19:23, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
In Wikipedia, there is already precedence for this kind of a thing in Orange Range (ja:ORANGE RANGE) and Glay (band) (ja:GLAY), where the ALL-CAPS are lost when such trademarks are translated into English. Clamp (manga artists) (ja:CLAMP) is no different.--Endroit 20:19, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
MOS-TM says not to create precedent. If the name is never used in lowercase, we shouldn't be messing with it. The artist group CLAMP is nearly never printed as Clamp. And remember, precedent can be wrong. Kyaa the Catlord 12:33, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
No precedent is being created. Since the link I added below was apparently session-specific, and now timedout, go to http://catalog.loc.gov/webvoy.htm and do a basic search for CLAMP as author/creator. The first entry (with 16 hits) should be to the manga group, followed by other names. Notice that the LoC does not follow the artistic capitalization, and lists them as Clamp. Neier 13:09, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
I believe this is due to a limitation on the LoC's software. It is amazingly old school. I'll drop the Librarians an email and try to get it fixed though. Thanks! Kyaa the Catlord 09:49, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Support It is always CLAMP on all their published media, on their website, and darn near everywhere else I have seen it. CLAMP is the official way to write the name, both in Japan and in English-language media, so there is no reason to move it. Elric of Grans 21:40, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Comment I think you may have signed the wrong section, if CLAMP is where you want the article to be located. It's currently at Clamp (manga artists)—this is a proposal to move it back to CLAMP. —pfahlstrom 21:58, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks; moved. Elric of Grans 00:27, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Support I don't think it's a style issue, but one of accuracy. As Elric has stated above, CLAMP, a Japanese group, has chosen to write their name using those capital English letters and it is done so consistently in their own media (except where technical limitations preclude it, such as in URLs). Since this is an idiosyncratic decision, any outside source in conflict should be viewed as being likely an error. Arbitrarily changing it would be an incorrect representation of it; it would be comparable to capitalizing scholar bell hooks name (she has chosen to always lowercase her name).Alessar 22:55, 7 March 2007 (UTC) — Alessar (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Comment. The National Association of Realtors has chosen to write their trademarked name ("Realtor") using capital English letters and it has done so consistently in its own media (except where technical limitations preclude it, such as in URLs). Since this is an idiosyncratic decision, Wikipedia doesn't care what the National Association of Realtors prefers and applies its own Manual of Style instead. Arbitrarily changing it would be consistent with Wikipedia guidelines; it would be comparable to capitalizing television program Thirtysomething's name (it has chosen to lowercase its name). PubliusFL 23:06, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Survey - in opposition to the move

Oppose per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (capital letters)#All caps and WP:MOS-TM. While it may not be a registered trademark, their name written in all caps is a trademark, so that part of the MOS applies as well. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 23:20, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Comment Wikipedia:Manual of Style (capital letters)#All caps only applies if it is a trademark, and I do not believe it is. Has it been asserted as a trademark? I know in the U.S., trademarks not intended to be registered are asserted (by the trademark holder) by placing a ™ after them, but I do not know rules for other countries. I have never seen it asserted as a trademark on CLAMP products in the U.S., of which there are many. —pfahlstrom 23:46, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Oppose per Nihonjoe. - Cyrus XIII 23:43, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Oppose per WP:MOS-TM. You question its status as a "trademark", but let me ask you this: Don't you think if another mangaka used the name Clamp/CLAMP as their penname that the original Clamp could sue? That's what pretty much defines trademark to me.--SeizureDog 03:12, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Comment Japanese culture is generally shame-based rather than litigious. I would expect that for someone to blatantly copy someone else's name would be unthinkable for cultural reasons—they would lose so much face—rather than because of trademark protection. —pfahlstrom 20:49, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Oppose — per Nihonjoe, WP:MOS-TM, and proper English usage. In response to people claiming CLAMP is not a trademark, the English language uses all capitals only for initials such as INSEAD. That means... If it's not any kind of a trademark nor some kind of initials, then it just defaults to a regular name spelled as "Clamp" anyways (at least in English, it does).--Endroit 18:52, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Comment People using the modern English language quite often choose all-caps acronyms that don't stand for anything or stand for logically untraditional concepts, like GNU, or acronyms with a bunch of extra letters like CINCLANT. If CLAMP says their name means "a pile of potatoes," there may be some way which the letters CLAMP have that meaning which they have chosen to keep everyone in the dark about. Or it may have been originally based on a mistaken understanding of a combination of English words, and since realizing that they have chosen to just go with what they already had. There is no evidence, and I have never heard it suggested, that they chose the name CLAMP based on the concept that the English word "clamp" normally refers to. Anyway, language changes over time, and the usage of capital letters has changed over the centuries. If they chose their name as CLAMP rather than Clamp, then I don't have a problem with them pushing the boundaries of English orthography just a bit. If anything, CLAMP is less avant garde than Yoshitoshi ABe. —pfahlstrom 20:49, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
If you read the article Acronym and initialism, you will see that GNU means "GNU’s Not Unix" (which is a recursive definition). What do each of the 5 letters of "C L A M P" stand for? Nothing! And if there's no source for it, we shouldn't consider it an acronym to begin with. Trademarked names such as UNIX (Unix) commonly drop the ALL-CAPS in Wikipedia article names anyways.--Endroit 21:26, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
I already addressed both those points in the paragraph you are responding to. —pfahlstrom 05:43, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

In my Japanese class ages ago, the phrase "potato boy" had a meaning like "hillbilly" does in the U.S. Could this be a playful hidden meaning on Clamp's part? -dean

How the hell can an acronym include itself? Doesn't that end up making GNU stand for "GNU Not Unix's Not Unix's Not Unix...ad infinitum"? Whatever. Pretty stupid.--SeizureDog 09:12, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
There's more: Recursive acronym—Tokek 10:50, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Nobody who's pro-CLAMP are saying that it's an acronym, and the Unix example doesn't really apply to CLAMP. —Tokek

Actually, UNIX should be written in small-caps, not all-caps. Small-caps was the flashy new thing at the time, so they used it. Depending on which creator you ask it can be either Unix or (small-caps)UNIX, so this situation is a little different. Elric of Grans 21:44, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Oppose per NihonJoe and others. Neier 23:28, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Oppose per WP:DAB#Page naming conventions. "CLAMP" should redirect to clamp disambiguation page. --Kusunose 00:16, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Comment From that page: When a reader enters this term and pushes "Go", what article would they realistically be expecting to view as a result? In most cases, someone who enters CLAMP would expect to see the manga artists. See WP:PRECISION#Minor_spelling_variations—it's true that the CLAMP article should have a link at the top to the DAB page, for those rare cases where someone enters CLAMP without expecting to see the manga artists. —pfahlstrom 01:08, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Oppose, there are a ton of Japanese names with all caps but their articles follow the naming convention, thus this one should too. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 07:05, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Oppose. As a matter of fact, the band's name is a trademark or service mark, whether they have registered or not, so "Clamp" is appropriate per WP:MOSTM. And were it not a trademark, "Clamp" would still be appropriate per WP:MOSCAPS. Heads, it's Clamp, tails, it's Clamp. PubliusFL 00:37, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Comment You seem to think we're talking about a band here, but we're not. Anyway, as I already stated above, WP:MOSCAPS only applies if it's a trademark. Specifically, since there are 7 guidelines for avoiding all caps, and the first 6 do not apply, and the 7th says to see WP:MOS-TM, then no, it's not a heads/tails it's Clamp. MOSCAPS does not say not to use all caps. It says to avoid using all caps. There's an important difference. But whatever; it's becoming clear that the majority of people bothering to respond to the straw poll favor style over accuracy. (By this comment I mean, lest I be misunderstood, that were the article to have an accurate title, it would be CLAMP, and only adherence to your interpretation of the Manual of Style leads to a title of Clamp.) —pfahlstrom 07:01, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Response I meant "band" as in a group of people united for a common purpose. MOSCAPS does not apply only to trademarks, that's MOSTM (although that's probably what you meant). First, it's hard to "avoid using all caps" by using all caps. Second, as I said, Clamp is a trademark (it's a term used "to uniquely identify the source of its products and/or services to consumers, and to distinguish its products or services from those of other entities"), and therefore MOSTM applies and says not to use all caps (just like the REALTOR/Realtor example). PubliusFL 21:13, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Discussion

Add any additional comments:

Disagree with both I agree that CLAMP is a trademark and therefore technically the rule in WP:MOS-TM relating to misrepresenting/censorship of correct typeset information applies. However CLAMP is more commonly used, even officially, and it provides a shorter link title. There is undoubtedly a statistic that in the English speaking, non-IT world, trademarks with the "Xxxx" typeset is the most common as opposed to "xXxx" or "XXXX." But that's just a statistic and I disagree that it is considered "proper English usage" to modify the other trademarks. There are some supposedly "improper English usage" trademarks primarily related to the English speaking world such as deviantART and iPod. (Whoops, better make POV-based exception rules for those titles, quick! Oh wait, there's already an exception rule for iPod, proving my point...) The WP:MOS-TM rule on capitalization of trademarks appear to me as an edit demand based on POV unfit for Wikipedia policy. I do not agree with the Clamp (manga artists) title, however I also don't support taking action contrary to what is currently written in a policy page, even if I disagree with the policy page. I support modifying the policy page. —Tokek 10:40, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
- In short, you support keeping the article where it's at until policy can be changed.--SeizureDog 11:08, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
  - Note: It's not a policy page. It's a guideline page. —pfahlstrom 16:46, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
    - Oh whatever. The two words are virtually synonyms. --SeizureDog 20:06, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
- Perhaps the same statistics also show that strictly in Japan, the overuse of ALL CAPS is prevalent. For example, see ja:Category:日本のバンド. In Japan, ALL CAPS are used (for alphabetic names and trademarks) so frequently that, it's almost like the Germans capitalizing nouns (in the German language). Apparently in Japan, they consider it to be merely a stylistic issue. See Netiquette on why ALL CAPS is discouraged (unless it's an acronym)--it's considered to be SCREAMING--in English. Once a Japanese person decides to debut in the United States or the English speaking world, the ALL CAPS tend to be dropped anyways. (If not by themselves, editors like us do it for them.) Take for example Puffy AmiYumi, Utada, Kitaro, Tomita, Plastic Ono Band, and Pink Lady (band). I would say that the better known they are in the English speaking world, we remember them spelled without the ALL CAPS. Just as we drop the ALL CAPS when we translate names from Japanese into English, the converse (acquiring ALL CAPS when translating from English to Japanese) seems to be happening in some cases. For example, see ja:KONISHIKI (Konishiki) and ja:TOTO (バンド) (Toto (band)). I guess that's my belief on how "proper English usage" needs to be applied to Japanese trademarks, particularly here in the English Wikipedia.--Endroit 17:41, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
  - "CLAMP" is still their most common name in English, and I doubt that "Clamp" will gain much popularity, because of collision with clamp and their absolute consistency in the market. Is it a rule that WP:MOS-TM always trumps WP:NC(CN)? People looking up CLAMP in the encyclopedia will always be looking up the manga artists, not anything else found at clamp. Anyway, use of all caps is hardly a phenomenon unique to Japan, as we have NVIDIA etc. —pfahlstrom 21:52, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
    - It has NOT been established that "CLAMP" is the most common spelling. Although "CLAMP" is more prevalent in Japan, "Clamp" is more prevalent in English usage outside of Japan. For example Amazon.com and IMDB both spell it "Clamp" in their headings.--Endroit 22:48, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
      - On the contrary, "CLAMP" is still significantly more prevalent in English usage than "Clamp" is, though less lopsidedly than it is in Japan. See the Amazon link you posted—out of 168 titles there, 86 of them are listed under CLAMP, 80 of them under Clamp, and 2 of them listed under the wrong author name entirely. That's a statistical crapshoot, but all of those books say CLAMP on the covers and publication credits page inside the book. Let's take another example—Barnes & Noble's website. Out of a search for books by "clamp"[8], of the first 100 results, 72 are listed under CLAMP, a mere 4 are listed under Clamp, and 15 are listed under both Clamp and CLAMP (9 are books by other people such as Cathy Clamp and Michael Clamp). An English-language clamp+manga-wikipedia search on google[9] shows, among the first 100 hits, just in the headings, that 63 refer to CLAMP, 28 refer to Clamp, and 9 refer to both CLAMP and Clamp. (The IMDB is user-editable and much less transparently so than Wikipedia even, so there is no way to tell who submitted those entries or whether the spelling has changed anytime recently.) "CLAMP" may not have an overwhelming edge over "Clamp," but it is still significantly ahead. It is also a distinction of markedness—"CLAMP" is a marked form that you have to use on purpose, and "Clamp" is an unmarked form that you can use without thinking. It is not easy to estimate how many people using "Clamp" are doing so from conscious choice not to use "CLAMP" and how many are using it simply because of traditional capitalization habits. But it is not illogical to assume that the vast majority of people using "CLAMP" are doing so with the express reason that they believe it is more correct than "Clamp." —pfahlstrom 00:10, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
        As I have said, Amazon.com and IMDB both spell it "Clamp" in their headings. Whether the spelling in individual detail pages still use "CLAMP" (the spelling preferred by the publisher) is irrelevant, because the editorial decisions at Amazon.com and IMDB is to call it "Clamp" in their respective main page. Also, the New York Times uses "Clamp". That's 3 prominent English organizations in favor of "Clamp". And as they become more popular in the United States (and other English speaking countries), they will surely start to drop the ALL CAPS more and more. The logomarks of Sony, Nissan, Toshiba, and Toyota are telling, in that they retain the initial ALL CAPS of Japanese origin, much like the "CLAMP" name. However as they have globalized, the ALL CAPS have been dropped in common usage. In conclusion, it has NOT been established that "CLAMP" is the most common spelling in English, but the trend for using "Clamp" is already begining to be established.--Endroit 02:03, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
        In conclusion, you ignore that it has been established that CLAMP is the most common spelling in English. —pfahlstrom 03:26, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
        I concluded as follows... At this stage, it has NOT been established that "CLAMP" is the most common spelling in English, but the trend for using "Clamp" is already begining to be established. This conclusion is based on my personal belief that translating "CLAMP" in Japanese to "CLAMP" in English is a gross mistranslation. If you translate "CLAMP" in English back to Japanese, it becomes "CLAMP!!!!" in Japanese (with the multiple exclamation points), meaning that the name is being shouted. That's unless they come up with some wise acronym. If the members of Clamp recognize this problem, and nevertheless issue a statement that they still prefer this name in English, that's another story. Otherwise, "CLAMP" will continue to be perceived as a mistaken name, and be translated into "Clamp" in English. WP:MOS-TM basically supports this by saying "no shouting" (or "don't use ALL CAPS").--Endroit 03:54, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
        
        It's just their name. They're not shouting. And I already mentioned the New York Times above in my very first statement, but you choose to ignore the USA Today and Associated Press references I gave. I have shown that CLAMP is more common, and you have not shown that there is any trend of moving toward Clamp over time; you only show a snapshot of the current moment that indicates that Clamp has some usage. —pfahlstrom 04:00, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
        I have given many examples of Japanese names that have become popular in the English speaking world to different degrees: Puffy AmiYumi, Utada, Kitaro, Tomita, Plastic Ono Band, Pink Lady (band), Sony, Nissan, Toshiba, and Toyota. Where've you been? These Japanese names are all the same, in that ALL CAPS are usually preferred in Japan but the ALL CAPS are dropped in the English speaking world as they grow popular.--Endroit 04:11, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
        So you're saying that CLAMP will change their name in the US as they grow more popular? I find that highly dubious. They're already as popular worldwide as manga artists get, and they have not shown any signs of budging. —pfahlstrom 04:20, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
        If they really become popular, you will see a phenomenom where the fans will drop the ALL CAPS, even if the license holder doesn't. Witness Toto (band) and their official website, they continue to spell their name "TOTO" with ALL CAPS, even though nobody else does.--Endroit 04:34, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
        You're predicting the future now. I'm just telling things like they are. —pfahlstrom 05:46, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
        Sure. But regardless, the fact remains that there is error of English usage to begin with, when applying a Japanized ALL CAPS name, which is tantamount to SHOUTING in English. And we should correct such rude mistakes (such as SHOUTING NAMES) in the English Wikipedia.--Endroit 07:37, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
        Absolutely disagree. And I've already said all my reasons why, so there's clearly no way this discussion can progress. —pfahlstrom 17:20, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
        
        Names are not things which can be translated, only transliterated. My name is Peter; would you say that the Japanese translation of my name would be the Japanese word for "rock" since "Peter" comes from the Greek word for rock? No. CLAMP has declared, through their licensors, that the way to transliterate their name in English is as follows: CLAMP. Neither you nor anyone has the right to tell them their name is incorrect. —pfahlstrom 04:04, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
        The license holders are often ignored (in favor of proper English usage) as per WP:MOS-TM, such as is the case for "REALTOR", "TIME Magazine", "UNIX", etc.--Endroit 04:11, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
        CLAMP is a group pseudonym. They are not a faceless corporation. It's a name, not an English word that can have a proper usage. —pfahlstrom 04:20, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
        Puffy AmiYumi, Utada, Kitaro, Tomita, Plastic Ono Band, Pink Lady (band), and Toto (band) are proper names as well. So what?--Endroit 04:34, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
        So I have respect for proper names, and the fan community at large has shown respect for CLAMP's. —pfahlstrom 05:46, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
        Pfahlstrom, while you're blindly advocating the Japanized name "CLAMP" (whose correct Anglicized form becomes "Clamp"), you're showing disrespect for the English language. In the English language, ALL CAPS are supposed to be reserved for special emphasis only.--Endroit 07:37, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
        You misunderstand the flexibility of the English langauge. —pfahlstrom 17:20, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Comment If my passionate feelings for this subject are turning anyone off, I apologize. I simply believe that an encyclopedia article about CLAMP, and those about their works, should have their name written correctly. I feel it is not Wikipedia's job to correct any perceived slight of English usage norms on the part of a notable encyclopedic subject. I feel it's their name and they can write it as they choose, and Wikipedia should just describe things as they are without passing any judgment; I believe that refusing to write their name correctly is a violation of NPOV. —pfahlstrom 05:56, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
- Correction: It's "CLAMP" in Japanese and "Clamp" in English according to proper English usage. There's no "violation of NPOV" here. The only thing we have is a misunderstanding by people like you.--Endroit 07:37, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
  - Actually, Amazon.jp seems to be fairly consistent with the "Clamp" usage too. "Clamp" is also the way they are listed at the US Library of Congress. - Neier 08:00, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
    - Someone should inform the Library of Congress of their error, as Endroit has been informed of his. They've been known to make name mistakes in the past[10]. And as for Amazon.co.jp, I don't know what part of the website you're looking at; I see CLAMP [11]. —pfahlstrom 18:23, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
      - Amazon.jp has the English versions of their books under "Clamp" [12], [13], etc. while the Japanese versions are CLAMP, as you pointed out. Neier 22:06, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
        The amazon.jp page is a user created one and the mistake was on the creator's part. For the most part, I wouldn't trust an amazon page as far as I could throw it. They are notoriously mistake-ridden. (Honestly, they own my soul: Items you own (2762)). Yes, that's nearly 3000 items "owned" according to amazon. :P Kyaa the Catlord 09:48, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

WP:ATT and WP:BLP states that we must get it right. Primary sources, the group's official website and their printed material, can be referred to that the name of this group is spelled CLAMP. Policy trumps guidelines, period. There has been arguments made that secondary sources refer to this group as Clamp. These sources, when verified (oh no, there's ATT again), are shown to be incorrect and unreliable. The LoC has changed their entry when their mistake was pointed out. We should not continue to get it wrong and repair the good intentioned mistake. Kyaa the Catlord 00:36, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

The guideline says to follow standard English usage. So the relevant reliable secondary sources are guides to English usage, of which there are plenty. Do you need people to start citing them? In standard English usage, the first letter of a proper name is capitalized, and the remaining letters are in lowercase. There is no reason to find a conflict between policy and guideline here, and trying to read one into the guideline will open a huge can of worms. PubliusFL 00:46, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I've listed this at the BLP noticeboard. I have multiple, reliable primary sources that show that the manga group's name is CLAMP and that changing this name is incorrect and, potentially, a BLP vio. Jimbo's statements on BLP are "we must get it right." Bullheadedness and inflexibility to follow a rule when it is shown to GET IT WRONG is a self-stopper. Kyaa the Catlord 00:52, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Honest question -- do you believe WP:NC#Album titles and band names conflicts with WP:BLP? Because WP:NC requires band names (including bands composed of living persons) to be put in formats other than those preferred by the bands, and NC is also policy rather than mere guideline. PubliusFL 01:01, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested Move take 2

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was Speedy close. This has just been discussed. Creating a new poll will not make this article be moved. Discussions don't depend on consensus to be closed, lack of it means everything stays the same. Please allow a few months before proposing this again. Thank you. --Hús ö nd 02:04, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Since this was closed out of order by the admin, I've relisted it. The request template specifically states it can be closed when a clear consensus is reached, this has not happened. And so we return to discussion. Kyaa the Catlord 01:58, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Reply This is not a band name, we've pointed this out to you before. Can you source that Clamp is a proper spelling of CLAMP? The group NEVER uses Clamp to refer to itself. It is a symbolic representation of the individuals in the group, rather than the english word clamp. Every printing of their work in English, Japanese, Chinese, etc, reflect this symbolic representation of their name. Changing this, against consensus I might add (you have a simple majority showing, not consensus), is like renaming Ann Coulter to Ass Coulter. The fact that you continue to confuse this group with a musical band even after having it pointed out continues to show that you are not taking any arguments that we make into consideration. BLP states that we must avoid original research, claiming that the symbolic representation of a Japanese group that looks like the english word clamp is the english word clamp is OR. Kyaa the Catlord 01:59, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Reply I'm not saying Clamp is a musical band, I'm asking you if you think the argument you're making about CLP applies just as well to the naming convention for musical bands, because I can't see a distinction. Like I said, it was an honest question, and I'm still curious about your response. There's no confusion here. The difference between Clamp and CLAMP is not a matter of spelling (both contain the letters c, l, a, m, and p, in that order), it's a matter of case or capitalization. Which is the difference between this article and your "Ass Coulter" analogy. Recognizing that ordinary English usage capitalizes the initial letter - and only the initial letter - of proper names requires no original research. PubliusFL 02:11, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

To be perfectly honest, I'm not really interested in arguing over this anymore. Today. You'll have to wait for act 2. Kyaa the Catlord 17:09, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

PubliusFL is incorrect in his statement. I will be very plain and straightforward in what the correct definition is. CLAMP is a pseudonym. It does not follow plain Wikipedia rules. I would suggest to PubliusFL and others to contact CLAMP themselves and see what they say...as they are the final arbiters on their own name. Otherwise, I agree with KyaaTheCatlord and others that this argument is nothing more than wikipedia snobbery. Kagurae 19:12, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

What exactly in my statement is "incorrect"? And where in MOS:TM does it say that pseudonyms are exempt from the rules that apply to other trademarks? Once again, MOS:TM says that "what they say" should not determine what Wikipedia does. Wikipedia policies and guidelines are the final arbiters on everything that happens on Wikipedia, not the subjects of Wikipedia articles. PubliusFL 21:00, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Rules Lawyering will not get a person anywhere. CLAMP is CLAMP, not Clamp, not clamp, not CLamp. And Wikipedia guidelines will account for this change, and change their rules. Kagurae 00:52, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

??? typeset as CLAMP

It seems we have a veritable edit war on our hands, as people can't seem to agree on whether it's written "CLAMP" "often", "more often" or "officially". Instead of constantly reverting edits, maybe we can discuss this? Personally, I think "officially" is fine, or maybe "in the group's publications". I think we should definitely lose "...by the group and others", which seems very un-encyclopedic to me. --KagamiNoMiko 12:56, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

The whole sentence about typesetting seems unencyclopedic to me (especially in the opening); thus my comment when I erased it. As "officially" is a loaded word, if it remains, then it is probably only a matter of time before someone sticks the {{cite}} tag on it. Neier 14:06, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

This wouldn't be an issue if agenda pushers hadn't renamed the article. Kyaa the Catlord 14:09, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, that ship has sailed. Personally, I don't think the artists give a damn whether their name is spelled CLAMP or Clamp. But since we already have made an issue out of it, I think "typeset CLAMP on/in the group's publications" is the most neutral. --KagamiNoMiko 14:20, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

If the artists didn't give a damn, they wouldn't always present themselves as CLAMP. Kyaa the Catlord 14:24, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Except that English words in Japanese are almost always spelled with all capitals. It's not important anyhow; fact is that CLAMP is used so much that it practically has a meaning separate from Clamp, and I agree the article should reflect that. --KagamiNoMiko 14:36, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

To me, "official typeset" sounds as informative and non-problematic as, say, "official website." I did say "by the group and others." I guess this portion can be tweaked to say simply "by the group" since "and others" may be too ambiguous.—Tokek 00:37, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I only ever see it as CLAMP. I changed the article to say Clamp, also known as CLAMP. Hope that makes everyone happy. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 03:07, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, that cuts down the informativeness part. I don't really get what's wrong with the word "official." Assuming that the word "official" is for some reaosn no good but being informative is still OK, how could we present this information in the article? For example, we can drop the word "official" and simply say something along the lines of "the group uses the typeset CLAMP". In other words, first it was:

officially typeset as CLAMP by the group and others

then cutting the ambiguity, to:

officially typeset as CLAMP by the group

then cutting the word "official" (for whatever reaosn) to:

typeset as CLAMP by the group

I would prefer if someone else made this edit so as to prevent an immediate knee-jerk reaction. —Tokek 11:45, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Blood Type???

I just removed a bunch of information relating to the blood type of the members of CLAMP - I don't see what this has to do with their work as comic artists, and it could be considered personal information. Just making a note here in case there is some reason for the inclusion, but it doesn't make any sense to me. Hersfold ^(t/a/c) 01:31, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

There is a popular theory in Japan, that a person's blood type is an indicator for their personality, kinda like zodiac signs in Western culture. But that information is still random trivia and irrelevant to the work of Clamp. - Cyrus XIII 16:06, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

"Raging lesbians"

While it would obviously be awesome if CLAMP did in fact consist entirely of raging lesbians, I'm not sure a simple rumour to that effect is really Wikipedia material. In the absence of verification or a source, I move that the rumour be stricken from the record. 221.187.121.183 13:07, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I'm a Japanese, but I have never heard such a kind of rumor. I think that the possibility of fabrication is high.--Morio 15:00, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

I've heard that they're softcore yaoi fans. At LEAST 90% of lesbians have no interest in yaoi.

For some reason, male gay porn seems to be unproportionally and unexpectedly popular among lesbians. Of course, there are differences between gay porn and yaoi, anyhow and would still need sourcing). 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 12:47, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

A paragraph I can't figure out

"In 2004, as part of Clamp's 15th Anniversary, the members changed their names from Nanase Ohkawa, Mokona Apapa, Mick Nekoi, and Satsuki Igarashi (pronounced the same, but written with different characters), respectively." What does this mean? They changed their names from blah blah blah, respectively. I'm confused -OOPSIE- 15:24, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Well it’s fairly simple, Okawa Ageha originaly used the characters 大川七瀬 for her name, she now uses 大川緋芭. Mokona Apapa appears to have stopped using her given name, and is now known by her family name もこな (given in Hiragana rather than Kanji. Similarly Igarashi Satsuki (who used to use Kanji for her family name and Hiragana for her given name) now uses Kanji for her given name and Kana for her family name. From 五十嵐さつき to いがらし寒月. Nekoi Mikku (猫井みっく) became Tsubaki Nekoi (猫井椿). Not all of them changed the pronounciation of their names. Nekoi and Okawa did and Mokona (for whom a Caetain Character in a number of their series is named) now only uses one name. Igarashi still has the same name but with the Hiragana characters い (I) が (ga) ら (ra) し (shi). She is the only one whose name is pronounced the same as before. Although using different kanji doesn't necessarily change the sound as several of them will share the same sound. I know I said it was simple, but it probably wasn't (My fault.) read the articles on Kana and Kanji, with any luck that will answer any questions you may have. --Tyrfing 11:37, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Clamp as "all-female" group not important enough?

Recent changes have noted that Clamp does not need to be mentioned as "all-female" in the lead sentence. However, it is not mentioned anywhere else in the article and I believe it was one of the main points of interest about the group when they first became known. I recently reverted the "all-female" part back but have had it un-reverted so I was hoping for some clarification on if it truly needs to be removed or not. Dasmarinas71 (talk) 21:16, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Why is it of interest? 24.17.83.230 (talk) 06:17, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Honestly, when I first started reading Clamp's work, the "all-female" tag-line was everywhere which is why it stuck in my head. I'm trying to find citations of why Clamp being all-female is important but I do believe that at the time of Clamp's creation, an all-female manga-ka group was rather rare (and probably still is, in the mainly male-dominated area of anime/manga). Perhaps the description is no longer important now as it was then but it should still be of note, I think. Dasmarinas71 (talk) 03:53, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Capitalization of CLAMP—a publisher's perspective

Hello, I'm the editor of the forthcoming Dark Horse omnibus edition of CLAMP's Clover. I noticed that there was considerable debate as to whether the group's name should be rendered in all caps or not. While I realize there may be certain usage standards specific to different publications (or to Wikipedia), it is the preference of the artists themselves that CLAMP be spelled in all caps, including in such instances as their copyright notice (not just, for example, on their covers). I know that native Japanese speakers are sometimes perceived as using English in ways that look odd to native English speakers, but this has never struck me as being one of those cases—perhaps because CLAMP is a short, single word, so it's easier to think of it as a stylistic or design choice, rather than a case where someone types a whole sentence or paragraph in all caps so as to "shout" a message.Carl Horn (talk) 01:19, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Clamp universe

Would it be a good idea to include something that coordinates all the different links between the different series that clamp has, or would that be too much of a list of trivia, or does are the articles series articles themselves doing a good enough job of this? AngelFire3423 (talk) 21:15, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Contributed images

We received the following image for this article based on a request for copyright permission: File:Clamp at Anime Expo 2006.jpg – Quadell ^(talk) 13:31, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Magic Knight Rayearth's month of release

The Clamp article states that the manga Magic Knight Rayearth began serializing in Nakayoshi magazine in october 1993, but in the Wikipedia article for Magic Knight Rayearth the month of release was November. What's the correct date? --Ginta suou (talk) 04:46, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

On their official site under "1993 10月" or October 1993, it says "『魔法騎士レイアース』連載開始（講談社「なかよし」11月号～1995.2月号）", so I suppose the Wiki article is correct, though I'm not quite sure what to make of it saying "Magic Knight Rayearth began seralizing in October". I'll fix it right now. AngelFire3423 (talk) 13:08, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone know who draws what?

Do you mean exactly which manga each person is assigned to or what jobs they do? AngelFire3423 (talk) 15:20, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

I mean what jobs do they do. I hear they don't use any assistants. 74.33.174.133 (talk) 02:01, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah they don't use assistants. Other than Nanase Ohkawa, generally they don't have one specific job that they're assigned. It depends on the manga that they are drawing. In the phase after they've created an outline they decide on who does what for the manga and this usually changes between mangas, so they don't really have a specific job that's the same for every manga. However Nanse Ohkawa is the one who's always in charge of storyboarding. I wrote a bit about it under the style section. I'll write more about it once I get a hold of the Clamp North side book, which should arrive some time soon. It has interview that is really nice for this kind of information. AngelFire3423 (talk) 12:14, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Chun Hyang

This statement: "though a recent interview has stated that Clamp would like to finish the work in the future. A recent interview with Clamp had them list the work as complete." What? It can't be both something they want to finish and incomplete in recent interviews. Which one was newer and where are the sources for such statements? Kyuu (talk) 05:54, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

An interview listing it as a completed work was released just in February in a magazine named da Vinci. Other than that, CLAMP's current website also classifies it as complete at one volume. [14] I don't know about the interview mentioned in the first sentence, but CLAMP have done a lot of interviews, and also have attended plenty of conventions. As of now it seems that they classify it as complete though. Akata (talk) 08:20, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Clamp event in Paris

Just dropping ref here.

Event page Archive of that page --KrebMarkt 19:14, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Themes Section

Might it be appropriate to add in how many of their stories involve, in some fashion, a romantic relationship--or at least a perceived romantic relationship--between a male teacher and a female student, from Cardcaptor Sakura, to Man of Many Faces, to Suki? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.206.94.162 (talk) 16:01, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Only if there are reliable third-party sources directly commenting on those relationships. --Farix (Talk) 19:09, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Splitting off list of Clamp of Works

I would like to split off the 'Works' section on to its own article (or rather move it to the list International publishing status of Clamp works and then rename that article) ~~and then add the link to I guess the style section~~ because it's taking up about half the article. AngelFire3423 (talk) 14:46, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, that was stupid, I guess I was lacking sleep (though I still am). What I meant was making one of those nice lists that they often put for the filmography and discography of people. I'm not sure if there's a nice manga list already out there that I should be copying the format from though, so I'll probably end up making my own format. AngelFire3423 (talk) 02:14, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Request for help: Doujinshi period and Clamp's beginnings

Please tell me if you have any of the following by leaving a post here or on my talk page:

Apparently there was a book called the "CLAMP BOOK" that Clamp sold that is a compilation of all their doujinshi. It would be ridiciously awesome if someone could either direct me where to buy this or had actually bought this book would let me know. Included at the end of this post is list of all their doujinshi thus far (apparently they began in 1987) and this list can be foundon the Japanese wikipedia.In it, it contains Shoten #3 and Shoten #6 that were both referenced as sources for the Clamp's old group memebers in a past version of this article.

List

1987

CLAMP BOOK # 1 Shinjuku Junai Monogatari (dojinshi of Monogatari)
CLAMP BOOK # 2 Kujaku Myouou Darani (dojinshi of Kujakuou)
CLAMP BOOK # 3 Yoiko no Saint Daihyakka (dojinshi of Saint Seiya)
CLAMP BOOK Shining Star (CLAMP original artwork. Re-edited in 1990 by Kadokawa Shoten)

1988

CLAMP BOOK # 4 POTATO CLUB (dojinshi of Capitain Tsubasa)
CLAMP BOOK # 5 Ginga Eiyuu Densetsu Satsujin Jiken (dojinshi of Gin-Ei-Den Souryuuden)
CLAMP BOOK # 6 Seiden Disco Version (dojinshi of Seiden)
CLAMP BOOK # 6 Seiden Disco Version Saishuu Fukkokuban (dojinshi of Seiden)
CLAMP BOOK # 7 Hisshou! Tanaka Yoshiki Sensei Kouryakuhou (dojinshi of Ginga Eiyuu Densetsu Souryuuden)
CLAMP BOOK # 8 LET'S PLAY WITH EARTHIAN:PIN PON PAN! (dojinshi of Erthian)
CLAMP BOOK #10 Karura Bonodori! (dojinshi of Karura Mau!)
CLAMP BOOK #11 SHOTEN #1 (CLAMP original artwork)
CLAMP BOOK #12 Fuuun Samurái Trooper Jou (dojinshi of Troopers)

1989

CLAMP BOOK #13 SHOTEN #2 (CLAMP original artwork)
CLAMP BOOK #14 Seiden Kessakushuu (dojinshi of Seiden)
CLAMP BOOK #15 BREAK SHOT INSTRUCTION in CLAMP (dojinshi of Break Shot)
CLAMP BOOK #16 SHOTEN: "SPECIAL" (CLAMP original artwork)
CLAMP BOOK #17 SHOTEN #3 (CLAMP original artwork)
CLAMP BOOK #18 Watashi no Himitsu Heiki (dojinshi of Shurato)

1990

CLAMP BOOK #19 SHOTEN #5 (CLAMP original artwork)
CLAMP BOOK #20 Heart nibun no Kyojin no hoshi (dojinshi de Kyojin no Hoshi)
CLAMP BOOK #21 SHOTEN #6 (CLAMP original artwork)

1991

CLAMP BOOK #22 Shinkyoku Divina Commedia in Devilman (dojinshi of Devilman)

Apparently Kadokawa Shoten published just one of Clamp's doujinshi, Shining Stars. If you have this, please give me a shout.
Also apparently there was a book called "CLAMP NEWS" that would be also be enormously awesome to have. Please tell me if anyone knows where to find it, access it, or buy it, or if you have it. I would love to shower you with my love.
Any sort of information on this gray area for Clamp, when they were first beginning and indeed anything would more than appreciated. I can't tell how many hours I've spent milling through the internet looking for stuff on this group. AngelFire3423 (talk) 04:31, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Whaddaya mean you don't have assistants? You ARE assistants to the project-leader-person

This looks to be essentially the same as Oku Hiroya & assistants signing some Gantz volumes as authored by "Hiroya Oku Works" (vs just the main mangaka's name). Or, heck, like any other mangaka with assistants, except that this one is more generous with the credit-sharing... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.183.124.21 (talk) 19:30, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Is the capitalization of this article correct?

Every time I've seen this manga circle mentioned in the press, they've been called "CLAMP" - all-caps. The group's official website also uses the all-caps form of the name. Is there any cite for calling them "Clamp" with the first-letter only capitalized? If not, we should rename the page. --Rob Kelk 03:14, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

It's been used either way. There is no meaning behind the all-capitalization, such as an acronym, and is purely stabilization. In keeping with MOS:TM, standard English text formatting and capitalization practices is used. —Farix (t | c) 05:15, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

xxxholic rei on hiatus again

Hey folks,

Just a heads up xxxholic:rei is on hiatus again. There has been no word on when they will pick the series back up. I'm noting this on the talk page because someone reverted where I changed the status of the work on the table. Once it picks up again we can change it back just like Drug and Drop. ButterflyNebula (talk) 13:17, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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