Talk:Clan Graham

Citing sources

Could this article use inline citations? I am not a great writer and added one sentence from Robert Bain. It was hard to not copy the book. But the citation gives the article more credence. -Susanlesch 02:04, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Etymology

Could someone please elaborate on the etymology? In other articles on Graham it says that the name means "grey" something or other. Ta. Maikel (talk) 13:14, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Relationship with Ireland.

At any point did an Irish clan marry into the Graham clan? Maybe around the time of Robert the Bruce? I think there needs to be more on the relationship between Ireland and Clan Graham. Govvy (talk) 19:45, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

The tartan

I have a book here (Johnston's Clan histories, The Grahams) that shows two tartans Montrose and Mentieth. Neither look like the one in the article.

'Histories' claims that the Montrose tartan (green blue black and white) is regarded as the true Graham tartan, and that the tartan in the article (from 'Vestiarium Scoticum') has never been in general use.

Perhaps I'll update the article with this info when I'm close to a scanner.

Tsingi (talk) 20:00, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified (January 2018)

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Deletion of external link to book on WP:Clan Graham

ThaddeusSholto has removed the External Link to my book on the Graham surname simply because I added the link myself. I appreciate his concern over a potential conflict of interest, but the book is endorsed by the Clan Graham Society and is in fact hosted on their webpage at https://clangrahamsociety.org/news-resources/#links. A physical copy is archived at the prestigious Innerpeffray Library in Scotland (see WP:Innerpeffray Library for this institution). A chapter from the book (Chap. 7) is also hosted by the The First Marquis of Montrose Society at https://www.firstmarquisofmontrosesociety.co.uk/members-archive/academic-papers/. The book has been cited extensively in recent Graham research, such as Alicia M.G. Graham (2023) The Grahams of Pennsylvania and Virginia: Our Scottish History of Warriors and Saints, Lightning Source, La Vergne. I prefer to link to the PDF of the book at Academia.edu as this is a newer revision, whereas the Clan Graham Society are yet to update the PDF on their server. In either case the eBook is available free of charge.

When I provided this information to ThaddeusSholto and requested that he undo the deletion, I received an abusive message which can be read at User talk:ThaddeusSholto#Deletion of external link to book on WP:Clan Graham. As discussion with this individual has been both hurtful and unproductive I am posting the matter here and requesting that the dispute be resolved by others. LloydGraham (talk) 21:56, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

I removed your self-promotion here as well as in other articles. You have spent years adding yourself to articles ([1], [2], [3], [4], [5]) not to mention your undeclared COI in authoring Danny Malboeuf with DannyMalboeuf.

My reply to you wasn't abusive and the WP:COI guidelines are clear. ThaddeusSholto (talk) 22:10, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Response to third opinion request ("Disagreement over removal of an External Link to a book.):

I am responding to a third opinion request for this page. I have made no previous edits on Clan Graham and have no known association with the editors involved in this discussion. The third opinion process is informal and I have no special powers or authority apart from being a fresh pair of eyes.

@LloydGraham and ThaddeusSholto: According to Wikipedia's external link policy, "the [link] should not merely repeat information that is already or should be in the article". If this book is a high quality reliable source, it should be cited in the article, not linked to in the external link section. Additionally, the conflict of interest guideline provides that one should be cautious when self-citing in an article; adding external links to promote your own book goes far beyond that. If you want to include your book in articles going forward, you should make edit requests on the talk page using {{edit COI}}. voorts (talk/contributions) 04:39, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks @Voorts for providing guidance. The book goes well beyond the information in the Clan Graham article, so I sincerely thought that it qualified as an up-to-date "unique resource" suitable for the External Links section, as required by #1 in the policy section to which you pointed me. Looking at the rest of that section reveals that the admission criteria for External Links have become very much more stringent than I recall them being when I joined WP in 2008. I think I will wait for the Clan Graham Society to update the book version that they host on their website before maybe giving the {{edit COI}} process a try, using that URL. Thanks once again for your friendly and helpful feedback. LloydGraham (talk) 05:43, 18 January 2024 (UTC)