Talk:Clan Gregor

Clan ties and bloodlines

Hello. My name is Raechel Bundy, and even though my last name is Bundy, But I have blood of an Macgregor in my vains.( Mother side.) It gives me pride to know that I'm part of the clan. And a clan is a group of family. And there is a actor with the last name MacGregor like my clan. But he is not blood related. It confuses me that we have the same name and not be related. And its a clan a BLOOD relating family. I whear the MacGregor crest around my neck, that I haved ever since i could remeberd. And I have never taken it off, since it was given to me by my grand mother.(She's married to a Mac.)If anyone knows why he has the same name. Email me at S'R_5_MacGregor@yahoo.com

Hi Raechel. It would probably help to consider your Clan as more of an extended family, rather than your blood relatives. Many clans got quite large, and not everyone knew eachother. My name is Sime, which means "son of Simon." I'm descended from Scots of the Clan Fraser, on my Grandmother's side, much like you are from MacGregors. I've recently met up with many other Frasers who live in my area, and they really do treat eachother like family. However, this is widely not the case in America today.

I've never received anything other than a warm welcome from my fellow MacGregors here in America! SMaj

While the actor of whom you speak may very well be a descended from the same clan as you, not all clans have held strong through the ages. He might not care about his clan ties. Canaen 07:22, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Mac and Mc

Both names are the same clan. Perhaps link Clan McGregor to this article?

The Race is my Royal - The Royal is my Race (Underneath Crest, Lion). Which one is correct? Thanks 88.107.81.13 16:57, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Clan MacGregor tartan corrections

My name is Ian MacGregor and I edited the Clan MacGregor article to add information about our clan tartans. This information is publicly available and was written by Sir Malcolm MacGregor, Chief of Clan Gregor. Ardchoille42 05:23, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Clan Gregor vs Clan MacGregor

Greetings my fellow MacGregors! I was wondering if it might be more accurate to title the page Clan Gregor as our society is named. Clan MacGregor is redundant, isn't it? SMaj

I'm very concerned with what appeared to be a unilateral move of this page. There was no discussion here other than this one unsigned question. While I understand the concept of the question, I have always seen and heard "Clan MacGregor" or "the MacGregor clan". Not only that, I feel that MacGregor has more popular recognition than simply "Gregor", and all references to MacGregor appeared to have been removed. I'm all for Being Bold, but this seems a bit extreme (but totally Good Faith - not alleging otherwise). Can we have some discussion on this? I'm not a definitive expert by any means, but this absolutely should have been discussed at length before being done. VigilancePrime 05:00, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I moved the article to Clan Gregor because officially the clan is known as Clan Gregor. Simple as that. The clan societies in the external links are also named Clan Gregor. The chief is Sir Malcolm Gregor Charles Mac Gregor of Mac Gregor, 7th BT, of Lanrick and Balquhidder, 24th Chief of Clan Gregor. And as to the move being premature, that question was raised by someone on July 31. Sorry to have confused you, check out the links to the societies.--Celtus 05:11, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Makes sense; as I said, "concerned," not upset or anything. I think this is fine for explaining it; I was looking for this prior. I think that the opening sentence could include a parenthetical such as "(sometimes referred to as Clan MacGregor)" or similar. Later there's a line "The MacGregors..." and it could be confusing to readers if the Gregor-MacGregor synonymity isn't prior explained. I'm just a simple person and think that would help us simple people understand, ya know? I appreciate your answering so quickly (and clearly!), thanks. :-) VigilancePrime 05:39, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I should have made a post here on the talk page with the reason why i thought the article should be moved. I wasn't thinking, sorry. I think you're right about making the article clearer, adding (sometimes referred to as Clan MacGregor) or something similar would help, i'll leave it to you, and anything else that'll make the article stronger. Cheers.--Celtus 05:50, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

No problem at all, Celtus! I totally understand and myself have been accused (rightly, I might add, sometimes) of Being Bold without letting anyone know and then getting questioned on it. In the end, we all can have a good laugh about it and be happy and satisfied that the article is, in the end, better than it was beforehand, right? 'S Rioghal Mo Dhream! VigilancePrime 06:17, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

In Robert Louis Stevenson's book Catriona (granddaughter of Rob Roy), he refers to the clan as 'the Gregara'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.174.194.98 (talk) 20:10, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Hello

Hello my name is Douglas Stevenson Szyman/Hughes and I have a request of you all. I am looking for the full garb for St. Pats day so I can march with the rest of my family of various descents in St. Paul, MN. does anyone have any ideas as of where I can get the most fit gear for this? Email me please @ Intelligence385@yahoo.com please? and thank you in advance. I may have gotten somthing terminal.... and I want this pretty much as my last outting.

Douglas Stevenson. (the rest is american brother). 1/16/08

   " Man does not live by words alone, despite the fact that sometimes he has to eat them."
Adley Stevenson  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.172.212 (talk) 02:42, 17 January 2008 (UTC) 

Sects

Hello. an Orr and Nickel here, both sides with minor ties to the Gregor clan. Anyways, I edited the Septs section. Corrected some really bad usage of the columns tag that caused the rest of the article to be unreadable. Also moved extraneous reference tags to the header of each sept sup-section. What I noticed is that there seems to be an extra sub-section. The first subsection seems to be older than the second but they appear to be the same list. If someone wants to remove one and synch it up with the reference please do so, but please make sure the article is formatted well afterwards before saving. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.134.185.184 (talk) 13:20, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Someone went way overboard on the names. The list is taking up half the article. Only the septs should be listed, not every last surname possibly connected (in any way) to the clan.--Celtus (talk) 05:09, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Greer

Hello, my name is Richard Greer III. Obviously my name is Greer, i just wanted to be sure that i am elligable for membership to the clan, i need clarification on the descended from a woman with the surname thing. My name comes from my father and his mother was Greer by marriage. i have been doing a lot of research on the clan macgregor history and septs. I would LOVE to call myself a MacGregor but i need to be certain that i am what i am. Thank you all for any help you may provide. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.31.3.197 (talk) 18:29, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, what do you mean your father's "mother was Greer by marriage"? Is that some sort of round-about way of saying your grandfather was a Greer? You didn't actually say your grandfather was a Greer though, you only said your grandmother was a Greer by marriage... So that'd seem to mean that your grandfather was not a Greer, and that your grandmother only obtained the name because of marriage between her and someone other than your grandfather. So you, your father and grandfather would have no actual descent from this Greer. Right? LOL.

If you figure your part of the MacGregor extended family then that's that. Anyways, you don't have to join a clan society to a member of a clan. According to their website, the Clan Gregor Society accepts memberships from Greers. I bet they'd accept almost anyone who is willing to pay subscription fees :p--Celtus (talk) 10:07, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

I should have been more clear, yes my grandfather was a Greer. Thank you for actually responding. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.31.3.195 (talk) 16:42, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Clan MacGregor Scotch?

Under William Grant & Sons, in the listing for "Support Brands", there is a link from "Clan MacGregor Scotch" to this page…but nothing on this page about that brand of Scotch.

On a bottle of it I have, it claims to be "Distilled, aged, blended and shipped by Alexander MacGregor & Co, Glasgow, Scotland."

Was curious if this Scotch is really related to the MacGregor clan, and if so how. —Robotech_Master (talk) 09:19, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

CoA

Hallo! According Rietstap Armorial and works of sir Thomas Innes of Learney sword in Macgregors Arms should be azur not silver, I think. Steifer (talk) 09:27, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

can you point me to the reference (web link)?. Yours ever, Czar Brodie (talk) 21:34, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Mac Gregor-Smith-Jacobite uprising

Does anyone have any info regarding; MacGregors leaving Scotland after or during the Jacobite uprising, for Cornwall. Upon arriving in Cornwall they changed their surname to Smith! Then onto Liverpool by 1900. many thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.145.186.142 (talk) 11:36, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Simon Mann

Apparently the mercenary, Simon Mann has upset members of the Clan with his description of their late leader, Gregor MacGregor in his autobiography (see this article for details). Worth a mention, perhaps? Paul MacDermott (talk) 21:00, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

"Jacqueli Finley claims"

Jacqueli Finley appears to be a genealogist from California. By what authority are her claims cited as a source?JF42 (talk) 07:20, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Unpublished "research" from websites isn't supposed to be used in articles. So that means the Finley and Mackinnon material should be removed.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 09:30, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

• • • • • • • • • • • • • • PLEASE NOTE ABOUT CENSORSHIP ***************************************

Brianann MacAmhlaidh EDITS - STOP

The section in reference is well cited and with published materials in accordance to copyright laws. Internet publication with the correct copyright materials and published accordingly are consider "published materials" including but not limited to websites with historical/genealogical evidential material, manuscripts, newsletter articles, etc.,. All research should be included and should not be deleted by those who oppose what the evidence may say contrary to what one believes, but should reflect all research applicable to the subject matter. Any deletion will be considered a violation of internet censorship laws and regulations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.60.255.126 (talk) 18:16, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Personal websites aren't considered reliable sources. See Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources and Wikipedia:No original research.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 05:40, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

THESE ARE NOT PERSONAL WEBSITES BUT ORGANIZATIONAL WEBSITES - AND SOURCED WITH PUBLICATIONS AS WELL AS HISTORIC CONTENT — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.60.255.126 (talk) 16:44, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Self-published material may be acceptable when produced by an established expert on the topic of the article whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.60.255.126 (talk) 19:09, 23 July 2012 (UTC) Furthermore: In general, the most reliable sources are: peer-reviewed journals; books published by university presses; university-level textbooks; magazines, journals, and books published by respected publishing houses; and mainstream newspapers. As a rule of thumb, the more people engaged in checking facts, analyzing legal issues, and scrutinizing the writing, the more reliable the publication. Self-published material, whether on paper or online, is generally not regarded as reliable, but see self-published sources for exceptions. Information in an article must be verifiable in the references cited. In general, article statements should not rely on unclear or inconsistent passages, or on passing comments. Passages open to multiple interpretations should be precisely cited or avoided. A summary of extensive discussion should reflect the conclusions of the source. Drawing conclusions not evident in the reference is original research regardless of the type of source. It is important that references be cited in context and on topic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.60.255.126 (talk) 19:13, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Article re-write

This article is largely unsourced. Any unsourced material can be removed from Wikipedia. I intend to re-write parts of the article with references.QuintusPetillius (talk) 13:16, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

The Rules of Wikipedia - sourced and unsourced information

Lets just be perfectly clear before this becomes an edit war. All of the information thew IP user has added is completely unsourced - and there is absolutley masses of it. As it is unsourced it can be removed from Wikipedia. He/she clearly does not understand about adding inline citations/sources to each fact. The article had been tagged for months as lacking sources. I therefore re-wrote it using reliable sources + leaving in any existing sourced info. Thus you are not supposed to remove unsourced information which I have not done but the IP user has removed all of my well sourced info. The IP user has just come along and added a mass of unsourced information which can be removed. If this turns into an edit war I will contact an admin.QuintusPetillius (talk) 07:59, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Possible incoming edit war

If you check the article history, prior to the 28th Septmeber 2013, the article contained absolutley masses of unsourced information. The article had also been tagged since March 2013 as having a lack of sources/inline citations. There were some website sources that no longer worked but I'd say 90% of the article, which was quite large, was unsourced. Bearing in mind that unsourced information can be removed from Wikipeida, I re-wrote much of the article with complete inline/citations. However any existing well sourced information I left alone and did not remove. The article was brought up to a good stnadard with all the information sourced. Since then another IP user, (User talk:98.148.29.143) has come along and reverted the entire article back to its unsourced state - removing all the sourced information - without discussion. Wikipedia rules state that you should discuss before removing sourced information. I do not want to get into an edit war with IP user but at the same time I believe I have edited in accordance with the rules of Wikipedia, as explained, and that the IP user has not.QuintusPetillius (talk) 15:02, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

William Forbes Skene

The work of William Forbes Skene such as Celtic Scotland, a History of Ancient Alban, is by no means authoritative. He was 1 19th century historian, the like of which have been found to be unreliable regarding Scottish clan history. And most of which have now been surpassed by modern historians and more up to date information. The Collins Scottish Clan Encyclopedia (1994) clearly states that there is no evidence to support the theory that the MacGregors were descended from Kenneth MacAlpine - which is the history given by Skene. Skene citing a medieval manuscript is not contemporary/documentary evidence.QuintusPetillius (talk) 12:36, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Unrecognized source of information on founding lineage of Clan MacGregor

The 1989 doctoral thesis by Martin D.W. MacGregor corrects some misinformation on the lineage of the founders of Clan MacGregor. Very well researched. https://www.era.lib.ed.ac.uk/bitstream/1842/6887/1/329829.pdf

Readers might also be interested in genetic test results showing MacGregor of Glencarnaig (Chief Sir Malcolm MacGregor of MacGregor) as a terminal branch in the Scottish L1335/S530 genetic tree. L1335 is the SNP designation used FamilyTreeDNA, while S530 is the designation used by ScotlandsDNA. In March 2013 Scotlands DNA stated that S530 was Pictish, that is, native Scots. Sir Malcolm MacGregor is designated with the ID 2124 in the MacGregor YDNA Project at FTDNA according to Richard MacGregor, administrator of the project. Sir Malcolm's defining SNPs, which are not presently listed in at the project but which does indicate his broader SNP L1335, are S696 and S697 according to the S530/L1335 descendants tree released about one month ago by Dr. Jim Wilson of ScotlandsDNA. According to Richard MacGregor, Sir Malcolm MacGregor has allowed his test results to be made public.

The information above regarding genetic results has only recently been released to those in the R1b-L21 Project, which includes those in the subset having the L1335/S530 marker. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.222.121.18 (talk) 15:19, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

If you want to make changes to the article then you must quote published secondary sources only. The references must also be properly formatted (bare website URL's will not do). Also be aware that orignal research (i.e stating something that is not directly supported by the source being quoted) is not allowed. Primary sources are not allowed either. If you can find any published secondary sources to quote that actually reflect what you saying in the article then you should discuss them here before making changes in the article. In regards to the PDF you have linked above - a study by a University student for their academic qualification is by no means a reliable, authentic published source.QuintusPetillius (talk) 15:40, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Further, what I am basically saying is that in the PDF it says Presented for the degree of P.h.D. That does not necessarily mean the degree was achieved, although I dare say it was. Basically using what is in effect someone's school project I don't think is a published reliable source.QuintusPetillius (talk) 12:23, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

MacGregor is a known scholar with many publications. Google him. He's the kind of guy we should be citing. If you search for that particular thesis on Google Books you'll find it cited in recent scholarship. Editors should be strongly encouraged to hunt down scholarly sources like his. PhD theses are okay to cite - especially ones cited in recent academic publications (see WP:SCHOLARSHIP).--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 01:29, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

I have a general question concerning a lineage given in the 1989 doctoral thesis by Martin D.W. MacGregor. I read the pedigree in the poem of Mac Giolla Fhionntog thus:

It starts with Donnchadh Beag and tells that he is the blessed father of Maolcolum and grandfather to Eoin, so we have: Eoin m. Maol Colum m. Donnchadh Beag. The poem now introduces the heir Grigoir m. Donnchadh m. Eoin, which I think is the heir to Eoin m. Maol Colum m. Donnchadh Beag. Hence the 15th century MacGregor pedigree in its full reads:

Maol Colum m. Eoin Dubh m. Eoin m. Grigoir m. Donnchadh m. Eoin m. Maol Colum m. Donnchadh Beag

(I don't see why the poem would honor a different segment of the MacGregors by mentioning ancestor to a rival chieftain line to Maol Colum m. Eoin Dubh m. Eoin.)

This interpretation of the poem, if correct, would match the 16th century versions except for the omission of Donnchadh [m. Eoin m. Maol Colum]:

Eoin m. Padraig m. Maol Colum m. Eoin Dubh m. Eoin m. Grigoir m. MISSING m. Eoin m. Maol Colum m. Donnchadh Beag from Kennan (a diminutive of Cinead?) mac Alpin, High King of Scotland.

67.83.109.109 (talk) 13:33, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Siol Alpin

The Scottish Clan & Family Encyclopedia which is a reliable source states that there is no evidence to support the tradition that any clan, including Gregor, is descended from the so called Siol Alpin.QuintusPetillius (talk) 09:19, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

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