Talk:Clementine de Vere

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Move warring...[edit]

@TNelsonDowns, CambridgeBayWeather, and Nathan2055: Obviously at this point some discussion seems required. I agree with CBW that the [current, as I write] format is not the correct way to do this, per WP:DISAMBIG which favours parentheticals for disambiguation; and WP:TITLE which favours no disambiguation if it is not necessary. That leaves three options: the stage name ('Ionia' - if that is the WP:COMMONNAME, which is doubtful), or either of 'Clementine de Vere' or 'Clémentine de Vère' (arguments for the first are that English sources supposedly don't use diacritics - although as far as I see from a quick read they might just be inconsistent on the matter, arguments for the second is that it is the canonical version of a French language name for a subject born in Belgium... [and diacritics in French - and other diacritics in other languages, ex. umlauts in German - have a very meaningful impact on pronunciation and we use them when necessary, for ex. Édith Piaf; Élysée Palace). Let's discuss. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 15:05, 9 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Without a doubt this isn't the right place. I went through the references, except Ancestry.com as they require a subscription, prior to moving it to Clementine de Vere and none seem to use accents. I ignored the external links as one was a Wiki, one a video and the third was already being used as a reference. The only accent I saw was an "é" on her last name at File:Clementine de Vere 1903.jpg and that is from a German language print. The original title was "è".

Her surname name was a stage name thought up and used by her father. He may have signed his name as "De Vere". See here. Notice the poster on the right, published by his company, has no accent. One problem in searching for sources is this, ca:Clementine de Vere.

Searching for Charles de Vere isn't much better due to it being an old English name. See Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford, Charles Beauclerk (author) (Charles Francis Topham de Vere Beauclerk), Duke of St Albans and Vere Beauclerk, 1st Baron Vere. A search for Herbert Shakespeare Gardiner Williams isn't much better as there are a lot of sources on William Shakespeare. I found this which has a nice pun and spells her name Devere. There is also De Vere, Charles.

I think that the non-accented version is correct. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 17:43, 9 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Dewiki has it with the accents; but it cites a sketchy video on youtube so [1. need to fix that, and 2.] your analysis is probably correct. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 23:44, 9 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The German article also had this which I hadn't seen before and also doesn't have accents. TNelsonDowns please not we don't remove accents to make searching easier. We do it depending on the sources. See Behchokǫ̀ and Délı̨nę for examples. Also we don't just add her stage name automatically. If Ionia was used more commonly than Clementine de Vere then it would be "Ionia (something)" but not "Ionia - something". CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 19:25, 10 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@TNelsonDowns: Your view on the situation would be welcome here. @CambridgeBayWeather: So we move it back to Clementine de Vere? Not sure if the stage name is common enough. Cheers, RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 00:54, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes as I still think Clementine de Vere is the correct version. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 10:47, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@CambridgeBayWeather: Think we've waited more than enough. You should be able to use your admin bit to complete the move? Cheers, RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 21:00, 22 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

RandomCanadian and it's done. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 03:50, 23 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]