Talk:Clone Wars

Move

I think that Clone Wars (Star Wars) should be moved back to here, and this page should become Clone Wars (disambiguation). – Mipadi 11:58, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Whatever we decide, I hope it is soon- I am itching to get bot-disambiguating. --maru (talk) contribs 04:18, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

I was the one who dabbed it, and I would have done that if I thought it was appropriate. There are just too many things named "Clone Wars," though. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 03:12, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd be willing to bet that most of the links to Clone Wars were intended for the Star Wars event. – Mipadi 05:10, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

I think that's as much a factor of the overuse of in-universe descriptions of characters and events. I'd just dump it to a "(disambiguation)" title, but there are three different fictional works named "Clone Wars," so I erred on the side of less confusion. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 01:20, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Clone Wars (Star Wars) is a bit of a misnomer, though—most of the articles relate to Star Wars in some way. I think it would make more sense to move Clone Wars (Star Wars) back to Clone Wars, then set up this page at Clone Wars (disambiguation). – Mipadi 15:35, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

The comics need to be combined into one article

It doesn't make sense. We don't have three articles for the cartoon.

RfC

Rhindle The Red is claiming that the two new Wii and DS Clone Wars game are unjustified to be on the disambig. page even though the old GCN/PS2/XBox game is up. They are claiming, without sources, that these two new games are normally

What RtR have been saying is OR. The two new games are known equally by the title Clone Wars. I am reverting their edits once again and filing an RfC on the page. Google hits are relevant. They show what people mean when they search Clone wars videogame. All three video games show up. Thegreyanomaly (talk) 20:03, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Even Wookiepedia, a SW wiki, depicts the new games on its Clone Wars disambig. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Clone_Wars_(disambiguation)Thegreyanomaly (talk) 20:05, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

The older game belongs because it's title is "Star Wars: The Clone Wars", also known as "The Clone Wars". The new games were referred to by the same title when they were first announced, because their subtitles were not yet known. We now know that they are "Jedi Alliance" and "Lightsaber Duels". This added information makes including them on the "Clone Wars" disambiguation page seem unnecessary, as people (to my mind) are more likely to look for the individual subtitle, rather than "Clone Wars" in regards to these games. As I already pointed out to you, we do not include evry single item that begins with "Star Wars" on the Star Wars disambiguation page. So just becuase "Clone Wars" is in the title is not a good enough reason to include it on this page.

For an example of what I'm talking about, please see this article on IGN [1]. In it, you will note, they refer to the games again and again as "Jedi Alliance" and "Lightsaber Duels". This is the way the games are generally referred to, indicating that there is no need for them to be on this page.

I suggest you give WP:DAB a read to try to understand the point of disambiguation pages, specifically the part that reads "Do not add links that merely contain part of the page title, or links that include the page title in a longer proper name, where there is no significant risk of confusion. Only add links to articles that could use essentially the same title as the disambiguated term. Disambiguation pages are not search indices." Also, I think it would behoove you to check up on what Original Research means in the context of Wikipedia. I have done nothing that indicates that here. Rhindle The Red (talk) 00:48, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

• IGN source means nothing because the title clearly reads "Hands-on Star Wars: The Clone Wars". Both of them are titled Clone Wars so to be coherent, they must be referred to by the subtitles. The new games have subtitles because LucasArts firmly attaches them to the Clone Wars. If they weren't firmly connected the Clone Wars, their subtitles would have been their root titles. These games go along with the new Clone Wars movie and series (which belong here too). These games are not independent of the new movie and series. They are related.
  • as people (to my mind) are more likely to look for the individual subtitle see that is OR. You haven't substantiated it and if you can't substantiate it, you shouldn't be reverting. I am quite the opposite of you. I wanted to look up information on the Wii game. I knew it was in the works, I didn't know the subtitle, I searched Clone Wars, I couldn't find information because of a revert you made [2]. Please stop infecting this page with OR.

A simple search of clone-wars video-game will show you, the video gaming community associates Clone Wars with these games as much with the old one Thegreyanomaly (talk) 01:38, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Okay, on further reflection, we can leave them here for now. It may be too soon to assume people know the subtitles and leaving them here at this time is probably okay.

But on another note, please do not accuse me of things I have not done. You do not seem to have read the link I included in my comment, as you have again accused me of original research. Original Research pertains to adding content to a page without proper sources. I have not added "unpublished facts, arguments, speculation, and ideas; and any unpublished analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position". I have not, therefore, engaged in original research. And using terms such as "infecting" shows a lack of good faith. Wikipedia is a collaboration and you need to be able to discuss these kinds of disagreements without being insulting (even if unintentionally). Thanks. Rhindle The Red (talk) 03:10, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

• I did read you link. The title refers to it as "Hands-on Star Wars: The Clone Wars" "We join the Jedi Alliance." When comparing the Wii and DS games, you can only use the subtitles in such situations. Thegreyanomaly (talk) 03:21, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

I meant the link to the meaning of original research. You didn't seem to get the point that there was no indication of that here. Rhindle The Red (talk) 12:18, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Cleanup

First, as said in the article edit history, cleaning up a disambig page per the Manual of Style is in no way "drastic", and if it were I'd point you to WP:BOLD anyway.

Second, the only two links I'm removing are the two video games that would not be reasonably referred to as just "Clone Wars" or "The Clone Wars." All I did otherwise was shorten the descriptions to what's necessary to figure out which article the user is looking for (as called for by the MOS) and rearrange the entries slightly to make the list easier to scan. Propaniac (talk) 22:31, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

(Adding further comment, since the issue of whether to include those two video games seems to be a point of contention:) If I'm a user who wants to read the article about the game "Star Wars: The Clone Wars - Lightsaber Duels", it is very very unlikely that I'll enter "The Clone Wars" to find that article. If I did, and I didn't find that game listed on the page, I would guess that I should enter "Lightsaber Duels" instead, which would get me there (and I'll create a redirect to make that even simpler; I'm amazed there isn't such a redirect already). Nobody's going to think "Well, hmm, I can't find 'Star Wars: The Clone Wars - Lightsaber Duels' at 'Clone Wars', and I can't think of anywhere else it might be." Even the article for that game refers to it as "Lightsaber Duels" in the text; that's going to be the shorthand for it, not "The Clone Wars."

The page is already difficult to read because of so many articles with huge, long, nearly identical titles; there's no sense cluttering it further. Propaniac (talk) 22:38, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Read the RfC section above. Your view is not backed up. Google hits for clone wars videogame direct users to all three games equally (the old one and the two new ones). Not everyone knows the new games subtitles. I was one of the people looking for the Clone Wars - Lightsaber Duels page. I did not know the subtitle, I had to google off wikipedia, get the subtitle, and then wikisearch the subtitle. Your claims may be true for the people who know the subtitles by heart, but not the common user who doesn't. Thegreyanomaly (talk) 00:57, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

^I would also like to emphasize, Wookiepedia's clone wars disambig has the two new games on it. Thegreyanomaly (talk) 03:52, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

First, I apologize for not noticing that the RFC, which I skimmed over initially, was in regard to this issue. I should have taken that into account.

Second, that being said, I don't find a discussion between you and one other editor, in which that editor agreed to "leave them here for now," to represent an overwhelming consensus in favor of your opinion.

Third, my view is completely backed-up by the Wikipedia guidelines at MOS:DP and WP:Disambiguation (specifically WP:DAB#Lists). You are arguing (whether you realize it or not, since you don't appear to have read or acknowledged either guideline) that this is a case where those guidelines should be ignored for practical reasons that people may not know the precise title of the game. I disagree; if that situation does occur, it's simple enough for the user to go the article about the film, click on the "Merchandise" section, and follow the links there to the articles about the games. A disambiguation page should not list every article related to every article actually referred to by the disambiguated term.

Fourth, if there is any guideline suggesting that what Wookiepedia does has the slightest relevance to what Wikipedia should do in this case, please direct me to it, because I'm totally at a loss as to why you keep bringing that up. I don't know if Wookiepedia has its own Manual of Style, or any guidelines about disambiguation at all. On Wikipedia, I'm sure there are dozens of disambiguation pages that include excessive entries along the same lines as these, in violation of Wikipedia guidelines, but even that wouldn't justify ignoring the guidelines in this case.

Fifth, I Googled "star wars movie" and half the results on the first page were about Clone Wars. That doesn't mean anybody's calling Clone Wars "Star Wars." Propaniac (talk) 19:50, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

A disambig page is meant to help users find their way. To assume most users are savvy enough to know the exact subtitles of the games is an assumption that is not (perhaps cannot) be backed up. Here is wookipedia's disambiguation page. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Clone_Wars_(disambiguation). It is operated by Wikia so I would assume they have policies on disambiguation pages. If a Star Wars wiki puts these two games up on their disambiguation, why should it be removed from a disambiguation page on Wikipedia? Thegreyanomaly (talk) 20:44, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

if you search "clone wars videogame", you will see that many of the references are for this game. Thegreyanomaly (talk) 20:53, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Seriously, what Wookiepedia does has nothing to do with what Wikipedia should do. Wikipedia guidelines are developed and enforced by Wikipedia editors who discuss (relentlessly) what is best for Wikipedia articles. The creators of Wookiepedia or any other wiki are under no obligation to follow any Wikipedia formatting guideline. Do you really think it's logical to say, "Well, Wookiepedia does X, and I'm sure they must have some sort of policy at Wookiepedia or Wikia that says it's correct to do X, therefore Wikipedia should follow what Wookiepedia does instead of following the guidelines developed at, for and by Wikipedia?" Wikipedia editors do not need to consult other, entirely independent wikis to figure out how to handle matters that are explicitly addressed in Wikipedia guidelines!

And yes, I'm sure Googling "clone wars videogame" brings up a lot of references to these games, because these are videogames associated with Clone Wars. Like I said, Googling "star wars movie" brings up a lot of results about Clone Wars; that doesn't mean anybody's referring to Clone Wars AS Star Wars. Propaniac (talk) 20:56, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

WP:DAB#Lists Do not add links that merely contain part of the page title, or links that include the page title in a longer proper name, where there is no significant risk of confusion.

To assume that people all know the subtitle does not allocate for a significant risk of confusion and causes much redirection for users. Thegreyanomaly (talk) 23:25, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Referring to those parts of the titles as "subtitles" is, I think, misleading since those are the only parts of the title that distinguish the two games and thus will be used much more often than subtitles in other cases (in the same way that "Return of the Jedi" could be called a subtitle). But honestly, although I still don't agree with any of your arguments, I've stopped caring about the issue enough to continue its discussion. Propaniac (talk) 22:02, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Star Wars: Clone Wars (2003 TV series) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 16:18, 18 April 2024 (UTC)