Talk:Cornell University/GA2

GA Review[edit]

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Reviewer: –MuZemike 03:32, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

General prose issues[edit]

Try and "fill out" the short paragraphs; good prose entails full paragraphs of a decent length, which is normally somewhere between 4 and 8 sentences. Many of the sections are summaries from sub-articles, so it should not be terribly difficult to cull some more material from those articles to "fill them out". - done

Not quite. If you could expand a little more on the "Cornell football" one-sentence paragraph and that 2nd paragraph in the "Activities" subsection, I think we'll be good here. –MuZemike 03:38, 10 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Try and maintain some consistency in paragraphing, though I understand this is not always possible. One-sentence or otherwise short paragraphs should be merged into other paragraphs where possible. For instance, the paragraph structure "Research" section is done fairly well. - done

I would like to see a little more done in the "Organization and administration" if you can; it also seems like you could plausibly combine a couple in the "Corneliana" section. I tried to help out with the remainder of the article as far as paragraphing is concerned. –MuZemike 03:38, 10 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

MoS issues[edit]

Some non-breaking spaces are still missing. Add   between numbers and units of measurement, between months and dates (i.e. July 4), months and years (i.e. November 2010), large dollar amounts (i.e. $20 million), between the address number and street name in physical addresses, and before roman numerals (i.e. World War II)
Some of the endashes are not used correctly; for instance, 350 – bed should be 350-bed with a regular hyphen, and Maine – New Hampshire coast should be Maine–New Hampshire coast without spaces as you're dealing with one location to another.
3 trustees are appointed by the Governor of New York ... should be Three trustees, as you should start sentences with small numbers by writing them out (unless they're large, then you can get away with it); also, that will maintain consistency with the rest of that sentence.
I think 4-1-4 academic calendar should be 4–1–4 academic calendar with endashes as this is a classic disjunction (i.e. going from a "4-month semester" to a "1-month session" to another "4-month semester").

Layout issues[edit]

You may wish to consider moving around or even removing some images which are not necessarily needed. In a few parts of the article, you have text that is sandwiched between two images, which is not desirable.
- ~~For instance, I would consider removing File:Cornell Beanies at Schoelkopf Field.jpg as there is nothing much in the prose that is supporting this event.~~ - 2006 picture selection was historically balanced, 2010 selection favored gothic and early 20th century. Racepacket (talk) 04:59, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm fine with the layout as-is. I do indeed like how the images were grouped, especially with Cornell's and White's pictures as well as those of the alumni. –MuZemike 03:38, 10 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I would consider switching the "Campuses" and "History" sections; I think readers would rather want to read about the Cornell campus first before going into the history of Cornell.

We did that order to comply with the WP:UNI suggested article structure for all university articles.

OK, that's not a terribly big deal there. –MuZemike 19:33, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Section-specific issues[edit]

History section:

~~Expand just a little more, since History of Cornell University is rather large and comprehensive on its own part. - added med school~~

Good. Note that there may be verifiability issues as noted above in the "Verifiability issues" section, so please take a look. –MuZemike 20:45, 14 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Replace File:CentralAvenueCornell2.jpg with File:Ezra Cornell.jpg (as well as File:Andrew Dickson White 1885.jpg, which could be displayed alongside Cornell's picture), as the former is not displayed in context of the section, whereas Ezra Cornell's picture certainly does. - done

Verifiability issues[edit]

General notes

I placed 27 {{citation needed}} tags throughout the article where I saw content that was not sourced. As with anything regarding verifiability please include the source or alternatively remove the content. Nearly all of them are the last sentences in paragraphs; that said, it is possible (as I saw regarding Bill Nye) that the source may be in the previous citation, which in that case it should be moved to the end of the paragraph.
- Are you sure they should be moved? If the sentence is "A,[1] B,[2] and C[3] are letters of the alphabet", with separate sources for each letter, there should not be a footnote at the end of the sentence or paragraph. "Material may be referenced mid-sentence or at the end of a sentence or paragraph." WP:FN Racepacket (talk) 04:45, 15 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that makes sense when there is a series there, but when you only have one single entity, as with the Bill Nye example, it doesn't make sense to place the citation mid-sentence like that. However, you can also avoid that altogether and say something like "Other letters of the alphabet include A,[1], B[2], and C.[3]" which I think would work well with stuff that you are referring to. –MuZemike 05:06, 15 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I note a couple of deadlinks already in the list of references; those need to be taken care of.
- I took care of [1] (currently Ref #15) for you, as I was able to find a previous version on web.archive.org, which I also included in the citation. –MuZemike 20:19, 14 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Your first and fourth "Notes" are unsourced and need to be verified.

"History" section

The book reference Cornell University: Founders and the Founding can use a page number(s) in there so we know what to look for. (As an interesting aside, I was surprised to see that the book was endorsed by then Cornell provost Carolyn "Biddy" Martin, who is currently Chancellor of my alma mater, the University of Wisconsin–Madison.) - I was very pleased with Martin's work as Provost. The book was actually first printed long before she came to Cornell.
The school opened on October 4, 1898 in the Loomis Laboratory facilities. Since that time, Cornell's medical school has operated in Manhattan. (source: [2]) → Has no mention in the source that it opened on October 4, nor does it mention the location or that it has operated in Manhattan ever since. - backed up with NYH history page. Addresses are well-known to refer to NYC streets in Manhatan. I will check further.
Since 1894, Cornell has included state-funded statutory colleges and has also administered research and extension activities that have been jointly funded by state and federal matching funds. → is unsourced, as far as I can tell; I cannot verify that from "note 3".
With regards to "note 3", I would feel it be better to merge that note into the article body and back and use the sources given in that note as the citations. I think that would be a little easier to follow and understand. - I'll look at it further, but it would break the flow of the main text.
Cornell expanded significantly, particularly since World War II, with its student population in Ithaca growing to its current count of about 20,000 students. The faculty also expanded, and by the century's end, the university had more than 3,400 faculty members. → is unsourced, along with all of "note 4".
The crisis resulted in the resignation of President James A. Perkins and the restructuring of university governance. → Looks like it's in there, but there should be a page number(s) in there so that readers can more quickly verify this.
In 2001, the university founded the Weill Cornell Medical College in Qatar, the first American medical school outside of the United States. (source: [3]) → Not in the citation given, neither about the school's founding nor the fact that it's the first American med school outside the U.S. Moreover, the source says: "... that established academic operations in 2002 as a historic partnership between Qatar Foundation and Cornell University." - do we use the date of the agreement, or the date of commence of operations?

"Campuses" section

When the university was founded in 1865, the campus consisted of 209.5 acres (0.85 km²) of Ezra Cornell's roughly 300 acre (1.2 km²) farm. (source: [4]) → not the citation given, though the rest of the information in the paragraph is.
Some 260 university buildings are divided primarily between Central and North Campuses on the plateau of the Hill, West Campus on its slope, and Collegetown immediately south of Central Campus. (source: [5]) → again, not the citation given, except the "260 buildings" part. Compare with what is in the source: "There are more than 260 major buildings on the 745 contiguous acres that comprise Cornell's flagship campus atop East Hill overlooking the city of Ithaca and the southern basin of Cayuga Lake."
The only remaining residential facility on Central Campus ... and an additional 25 fraternity and sorority houses. → not in the citation given, which is just a map. While it can be argued that one should "look at the map" for much of the information that citation covers, you cannot for describing that the only residential dorm remaining. Moreover, I argue it's fairly unreasonable to expect someone who wishes to verify this information to have to physically count buildings on this map,
The Ithaca Campus is among the rolling valleys ... (although the university discourages their use). → no source given, since the only citation in that paragraph is supposed to be a search result for the university's botanical gardens, which nothing can be found there, either. Clicking on that link, it says they have "dismantled" the Explore Cornell website.
Cornell has adopted a comprehensive sustainability action plan, and has a number of Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) certified buildings on the Ithaca campus. (source: [6]) → not in citation given. Compare with the relevant quote in the source: "Weill Hall features a striking four-story atrium, walls of windows and gleaming white tile, abundant open spaces and an expected gold rating in Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) -- which would be the university's first."
In 2009, a new gas-fired combined heat and power facility replaced a coal-fired steam plant, resulting in a reduction in carbon emissions to 7% below 1990 levels. → no source given, and the following source does not support that sentence; please note the discrepancy in the dates (i.e. the source is from 2006, but the gas-fired plant was built in 2009). However, the link given on the sidebar there, [7], may help a little more, but that still doesn't cover what is currently written in the article. There is also [8] and [9] which I think would further help.
...and a university-run, on-campus hydroelectric plant in the Fall Creek Gorge provides an additional 2%. (source: [10]) → this is a deadlink, but I was able to find a replacement source [11], but it does not include the "additional 2%" fact.
Although their faculty and academic divisions are separate, the Medical Center shares its administrative and teaching hospital functions with the Columbia University Medical Center. → no source given, and there is nothing in the following citation ([12]) that mentions anything about this.
Weill Cornell Medical College is also affiliated ... offer the Tri-Institutional MD–PhD Program to selected entering Cornell medical students. → no source given, and there is nothing in the following citation ([13]) that mentions anything about this.
The Cornell Urban Scholars Program encourages students to pursue public service careers with organizations working with New York City's poorest children, families, and communities. → This is now out-of-date, as the program has now moved to Washington D.C. to work with the poor over there, as noted [14] and [15]. This needs to be changed as well as moved out of the "New York City campus" section. (Alternatively, you could mention that the program was in NYC from 2002 to 2009.)
The NYS College of Human Ecology and the NYS College of Agriculture and Life Sciences ... with the Cornell Cooperative Extension. → this is borderline original research. The only place the two colleges are listed are in the "Related Resources" section of that web page.
The College of Engineering's Operations Research Manhattan, ... and public sector collaboration. (source: [16]) → not in the citation given, and I couldn't find any information on any of its subpages, unless I missed something.
The facility comprises 20 major buildings on 130 acres (0.5 km²) of land as well as more than 700 acres (2.8 km²) of test plots and other lands devoted to horticultural research. (source: [17]) → Not in citation given. Moreover, those figures are off when I looked further on the following URL: [18]. I see "870 acres" instead of 700, and I see no mention about the "130 acres of land".
The Arnot Teaching and Research Forest ... training and research related to professional forestry. (source: [19]) → Not in citation given. You may wish to look [20] and [21] for relevant information which may more match what is given there.
The Cornell in Washington is a program that allows students to study for a semester in Washington, D.C., holding research and internship positions while earning credit toward a degree. (source: [22]) → Not in citation given. Moreover, the "About Us" page here mentions nothing about what is said in the article.
As well, the Capital Semester program allows students to intern in the New York state legislature. (source: [23]) → Not in citation given; however, the preceding sentence is in the citation given.

"Academics" section, up to the "Financial aid" subsection

The Weill Cornell Medical School accepted 4.3%. (source: [24]) → not in citation given. The URL goes to the main US News site, but I couldn't even find after searching of figures of admissions of the Weill School.
At the time of its founding,... regardless of economic circumstance. → This is a significant enough of a fact in which a reference is required.
For the 2008–2009 school year,...received grant aid. (source: [25]) → not in citation given. It think that site updates itself annually.
In 2009, 1,246 of the 3,139 full-time freshmen ... indebtedness at graduation is $23,485. (source: [26]) → not in citation given. I think this is the same situation as above where it updates annually. Moreover, this is Howard University and not Cornell.
- This will all take a bit of detective work. I think that the source web pages have "drifted" in content since the time the article was first written. I appreciate all of your work. Racepacket (talk) 05:01, 15 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Stability issues[edit]

Talk:Cornell University#Misleading photo → Try and get closure on this ASAP. We need to be free of any ongoing content disputes before passing.
- This has been resolved —Eustress ^talk 23:20, 11 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Lead issues[edit]

With an article of almost 150KB size and with 60KB of readable prose, you can afford to have a longer lead. I strongly recommend filling out those four paragraphs with as complete an overview of all of the content in the article body as you can.

The current lead appears to adhere to WP:LEAD precisely. What content do you feel is lacking? —Eustress ^talk 23:38, 11 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

My concern is that the lead as it is right now is not adequately covering (briefly) all the main points of the article. –MuZemike 23:55, 11 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Again, which points does it not adequately cover? Please be specific. —Eustress ^talk 02:56, 12 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Let me take a look at it myself and see what else could be added after I complete my verification sweep of the entire article. –MuZemike 20:19, 14 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(This is a non-GA issue but would likely be an FAC issue) You may want to go over WP:LEADCITE and reconsider removing citations in the lead (with the exception of the reference of the quote from Ezra Cornell, which must stay there no matter what), provided they're already mentioned and cited in the article body. The big thing with the lead is (1) to avoid redundancy (i.e. if you have it cited in one place, common sense says it doesn't need to be cited again) and (2) avoid cluttering up the lead too much so that readers aren't put off by the complexity and so that they are more encouraged to read on.

The lead provides inline citations to support four phrases of text: (1) Cornell being private and land-grand at the same time, (2) Ezra Cornell quotation, (3) number of Rhodes Scholars and Nobel laureates, and (4) student body demographics. I believe WP:LEADCITE supports the inclusion/duplication of inline citations here, as 1 is "complex," 2 is a quotation, and 3 and 4 are both "complex" and "current." Which ones do you suggest removing and why? —Eustress ^talk 23:38, 11 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As I pointed out above, the lead is basically a summary and slight repetition of what is in the article body. Since everything in the article body is already supposed to be cited, and to cut down clutter for readers, in many articles do not include citations. The exception is the quotation, which I mentioned must be cited regardless. –MuZemike 23:55, 11 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Plagiarism[edit]

"Financial aid" subsection, 4th paragraph, from the article:

In the first year, 2008–09, Cornell replaced need-based loans with scholarships for undergraduate students from families with incomes under $75,000 and capped such loans annually at $3,000 for students from families with incomes between $75,000 and $120,000.

The following year, 2009–10, the program took full effect by eliminating need-based loans for students from families with incomes up to $75,000, and capped annual loans at $3,000 for students from families with income between $75,000 and $120,000. The initiative costs an additional $14 million per year to fully implement.

From the source (http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/Jan08/finAid.html):

In the first year, 2008-09, the university will eliminate need-based loans going forward for undergraduate students from families with incomes under $60,000, and cap them annually at $3,000 for students from families with incomes between $60,000 and $120,000.

The following year, 2009-10, the program will take full effect by eliminating need-based loans for students from families with incomes up to $75,000, and capping annual loans at $3,000 for students from families with income between $75,000 and $120,000.

[six paragraphs later]

The annual cost of the initiative is expected to increase the university's total annual financial aid expenditure by an additional $14 million when fully implemented.

This is straight-up plagiarism; there was no effort made to paraphrase anything here.

The paragraph has been rewritten. Racepacket (talk) 21:22, 15 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Conclusions[edit]

In progress – basically, this is a start for this review, and I still need to go over the prose and references in detail. This may take a while due to the size of the article, but the above is a starting point for some of the things that need to be improved. –MuZemike 03:32, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for any lack of update; I have been busy with other stuff at the moment. Hopefully, I can get back to the review sometime at the beginning of next week. –MuZemike 07:36, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Update (December 10) – I went through all the prose and made some copyediting, mostly in the part of adding non-breaking spaces where needed, combination of a couple paragraphs, and minor corrections in punctuation, grammar, and usage. I also went through and added {{citation needed}} tags on stuff that was unsourced (see "Verifiability issues" above). Overall, the prose is very good and definitely passable for GA.

Next I plan to check the sources to make sure everything in the article are in the citations given. With regards to deadlinks, I also plan to check through all those and see if any of them no longer work. Again, apologies for the slow progress on the review, as I was busy IRL and with other stuff, and that this is a rather long article to review; I appreciate the patience throughout this. –MuZemike 03:38, 10 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The sentence, " Contemporary architects Richard Meier ('57),[288] designer of the Getty Center, and Peter Eisenman ('55),[289] designer of the Wexner Center for the Arts, are also Cornellians.[citation needed]' is properly cited. Fn 288 was added to prove that Meier is a Cornellian and Fn 289 was added to prove that Eisenman is a Cornellian, so I don't understand why the [citation needed] was added. Please explain what you needed cited. Racepacket (talk) 13:32, 12 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

OK, then that later citation should be moved to the end of the sentence; I can do that for you. –MuZemike 16:15, 12 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

failed – I'm sorry, but I have to fail this GA nomination on verifiability issues alone plus the plagiarism I have found above. From what I have checked so far, at least 1/3 of the content is either not sourced or are not in the references given; most of the references are sorely out-of-date. It is clear that nobody has gone through and verified any of the content here before nominating for GA. The plagiarism I have found above is particularly inexcusable.

Before even attempting to renominate for GA or anything, check the content again the sources given, and get rid of anything else that looks like plagiarism. –MuZemike 01:50, 15 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]