Talk:Cougar

Send to Featured Article Review?

This article no longer meets the FA criteria. I corrected an error in the Lead today that had been there for over two years. There are statements that need citations and the Sports section is an absolute mess.Graham Beards (talk) 09:38, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

I can confirm that the sports section remains a big, uncited mess of trivia. The hybrids section is solely supported by a geocities ref (this is not a high-quality source), and there is a lot of trivia going on concerning individual sightings reported by the media. The article needs a lot of work and I'm updating this to a notice on WP:URFA/2020. RetiredDuke (talk) 14:04, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

I removed the sports section. LittleJerry (talk) 21:33, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

@Graham Beards, RetiredDuke, and LittleJerry: this has been noticed since 2020, and I am hoping to make some progress on this. I see that the sports section has been removed as uncited, but there's a "Hybrid" section that is uncited. I also see some very large sections like "Distribution and habitat" and the beginning of "Behavior and ecology" that I would like to see split with level 3 headings or reduced/summarised. The "Naming and etymology" also contains many small paragraphs, and I think it can be structured more effectively. Is anyone still willing to address these concerns? Have the sourcing concerns above been resolved? If not, should this be brought to FAR? Thanks. Z1720 (talk) 18:19, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

I'll fix this up soon, if no one else does it. I'm busy with red panda at FAC, which is getting close to passing. LittleJerry (talk) 21:41, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

I can help too. – BhagyaMani (talk) 07:03, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

BhagyaMani can you replace the united text with cited text? LittleJerry (talk) 12:05, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Z1720 how about now? LittleJerry (talk) 00:02, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

@LittleJerry: Sorry for the delay in looking at this. It has been massively improved, and I only have a few thoughts below:

• The naming and etymology section mentions the numerous names that the cougar has, but only gives the etymology of "cougar". Is there information on the etymology of other widely-used names?

Added. LittleJerry (talk) 00:27, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

• The distribution and habitat sections seems to focus on Canada and the US. What about its distribution in other countries? Is the cougar present in only the western parts of those countries or throughout their land? Z1720 (talk) 23:13, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

There's more to talk about in NA because it was extricated from the east but there is the possibly of recolonization. BhagyaMani? LittleJerry (talk) 23:59, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

I'll update this and also conservation section. Hope this finds your consent that I removed all this staff based on outdated websites. —

BhagyaMani (talk) 05:37, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

• The conservation section also focuses on Canada and the US. Are there any conservation efforts in other countries?

BhagyaMani, can you take care of this? LittleJerry (talk) 23:49, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Those are my thoughts on the article. Z1720 (talk) 23:13, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

I have no clue how much it was in there “!! 208.67.7.148 (talk) 20:58, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

LittleJerry : what do you think of removing the entire section *Further reading*? Unless you think that any of the listed books are worthwhile to be referenced? – BhagyaMani (talk) 08:20, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Sure, remove it. LittleJerry (talk) 11:56, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Z1720 done. LittleJerry (talk) 12:25, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

I think my concerns above have been addressed. @Graham Beards: would you feel comfortable removing the FAR notice, or do you have concerns with this article? Z1720 (talk) 14:12, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

Since @Graham Beards: has not responded above, I am going to remove Cougar from WP:FARGIVEN. If GB or anyone else has concerns, they can choose to re-notice the article. Z1720 (talk) 16:59, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request

• What I think should be changed: Please change "Cougars are territorial and lives at low population densities." to "Cougars are territorial and live at low population densities.

• What I think should be changed: Because "lives" is grammatically incorrect here

• References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button): N/A208.67.7.148 (talk) 20:54, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Coolmanjack25 (talk) 18:36, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Nice catch. - UtherSRG (talk) 19:00, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Cougars

Cat 208.67.7.148 (talk) 20:55, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

"This wide range has brought it many common names, including puma, mountain lion, catamount and panther". Puma is not in a Panthera family, and is not and shall not be referred as panther. Very misleading naming in this level article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.156.244.251 (talk) 09:14, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying here, but those are names used for the animal (whether they should be or not) so I don't see a problem. We can only state what is, per reliable sources, not what we think "should be". Anaxial (talk) 16:13, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Cougars are closer to small and medium sized wildcats (Servals, Caracals, African Wildcats, Ocelots, etc) than they are to panthers. They can't roar and are even able to breed with ocelots (via artificial methods). Panthers roar, members of the felinae purr. [Special:Contributions/47.197.29.147|47.197.29.147]] (talk) 04:11, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

That doesn't address the question as to whether or not the name is commonly used for the animal. You need to prove that (almost) nobody uses the word, not that, in your personal opinion, they "should not" use the word. Anaxial (talk) 05:39, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

WP:NOTAFORUM--Mr Fink (talk) 16:42, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 March 2024

My request concerns the section: relationships with humans, with recorded attacks in California reaching now to 2024, as there was a fatality due to a couguar a day ago

change "The heavily populated state of California saw a dozen attacks 1986 to 2004 (after just three from 1890 to 1985), including three fatalities." to "The heavily populated state of California saw a dozen attacks 1986 to 2024 (after just three from 1890 to 1985), including four fatalities." <https://news.sky.com/story/mountain-lion-attacks-two-brothers-killing-one-and-injuring-the-other-13100858> </ref> <https://www.ctvnews.ca/climate-and-environment/first-fatal-mountain-lion-attack-in-california-in-20-years-leaves-one-man-dead-brother-injured-authorities-say-1.6821205></ref> MathieuSkyk (talk) 17:43, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Done. But I chose different wording because I don't know if "dozen" would still accurately describe the number of attacks up to 2024. pillowcrow 22:14, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Nocturnal/crepuscular/diurnal

The cougar is largely solitary by nature and considered both nocturnal and crepuscular, but it was also sighted during the day, says the current version of this article. This seems to suggest daytime appearances are rare indeed, which is not true.

Although Puma concolor prefers to hunt by night, it varies according to the locality, and the predator may operate quite extensively in daytime. Harmsen, Bart (2010). "Jaguar and puma activity patterns in relation to their main prey" (PDF). Mammalian Biology., see Discussion. For example in Venezuela pumas are active for 30-50% of daylight hours.

In short, that pumas rarely hunt by day is unsourced, and dubious. Ttocserp 02:08, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

The Harmsen et al paper is behind a paywall but a relevant extract is:

In this study, activity of jaguars and pumas coincided with periods when their main prey species forage above ground [emphasis supplied], as has been found for feline predators of rodents and lagomorphs (e.g. Fedriana et al., 1999; Roth and Lima, 2007). In other parts of the neotropics, jaguars and pumas rely more on diurnal [emphasis supplied] ungulate species as prey (e.g. Crawshaw and Quigley, 2002; Núñez et al., 2000; Scognamillo et al., 2003; Taber et al., 1997). For example, in the Pantanal jaguars are mostly diurnal and feed mainly on domestic and wild ungulates, and capybaras (Hydrochaeris hydrochaeris) (Crawshaw and Quigley, 1991, 2002). In Venezuela, jaguars and pumas were active for 30–50% of the daylight hours [emphasis supplied]...

In other words, it varies geographically; but if their prey come out during the day, pumas will hunt them by day. According to this reputable paper at least, it is an invalid generalisation to say pumas are nocturnal and crepuscular. They are whatever they need to be, including diurnal; nor is this unusual.

This is supposed to be a Featured Article, and in my opinion it is quite remarkable that it asserts, as a fact, something that is probably wrong and (at best) is not supported by the cited sources.Ttocserp 12:40, 20 April 2024 (UTC)