Talk:Cowra breakout

earlier comments

The article claims that "relations were poor". Maybe this is just myth, but it was my understanding (which is also the view of this guide to the region) that it was only the Japanese POWs. The Italians apparently got on well with the guards (so would I; 1940's Cowra might be a little boring and the food uninspired but compared to being shot at in North Africa I know which I'd prefer...). --Robert Merkel 15:47, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It was my understanding too; I just worded that sentence poorly.Grant65 (Talk) 16:26, Jun 18, 2005 (UTC)

On second thoughts, obviously the Japanese did not get on well with the guards, but we don't know about the others and the Australian sources may be regarded as biased.Grant65 (Talk) 22:26, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

I read that Privates Benjamin Hardy and Ralph Jones were awarded the George Cross, which is fantastic, especially for the locking of the machine gun - but from my memory the George Cross is only awarded to civilians, or to soldiers for acts of bravery not in the face of an enemy. Does being a POW, despite being somewhat armed and intent on killing, not count as "enemy"? Just wondering if anyone had any more information on this? Wampusaust 01:34, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, under the circumstances it does seem odd. POWs are legally defined as "combatants". Jones might even have qualified for the Victoria Cross, although you usually had to do something like destroy two machine gun positions, under fire, to receive it. They certainly would have qualified for the Military Medal. But I haven't been able to find out the answer. I will bear it in mind. Grant | Talk 03:25, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

The citation for their medals is here. The GC is awarded for "however the George Cross may be awarded to military personnel for gallant conduct which is not in the face of the enemy". There must be some technicality about why escaped PoWs are not classed as enemy. --jmb 23:20, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Indonesians

"The prisoners at Cowra also included Italians, Koreans who had served in the Japanese military, and Indonesian civilians detained at the request of the Dutch East Indies government."

This is weird. The Dutch East Indies government ended in Indonesia since 8 March 1942, a week after the Japenese troops landed in Java. During 1942-1945 Indonesia was under Japanese ruler. LeylaSharif (talk) 15:04, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Could be the government in exile? Ironholds 15:08, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Rather oddly, the NEI government shipped political prisoners to Australia in 1942. These were a major embarrassment for the Australian Government. --Nick Dowling (talk) 07:58, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Japanese movie

FYI, I watched a Japanese made-for-TV movie two nights ago that dramatized this event from the Japanese POV. The movie is called, ""Ano Hi Bokura no Inochi wa Toiretto Pepa yori mo Karukatta (That Day Our Lives Were Lighter Than Toilet Paper)" and was broadcast on Nihon TV on July 8, 2008 [1]. This movie doesn't yet have an entry in IMDB. The movie included footage of the actual location of the POW camp how it looks today. The title comes from the fact that the prisoners voted whether to attack the guards by voting "yes" or "no" on pieces of toilet paper. Cla68 (talk) 00:52, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Possible histtory mis-write?

I've heard stories from my grandfather, and from another couple of people who were alive around that time. That rather than being a break-out, some of the Maori Battalion actually released them for "fun". It was then apparently covered up and such, and was made that the Japanese escaped. Is there anyone who might know if there is any other knowledge of this? It certainly sounds like something that they would do, with all this PC rubbish happening. Hint, before you start blasting me about this, I'm a 32nd Maori, which is more than most people can account for :| 203.97.119.134 (talk) 11:46, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Absolute rubbish. Why would a Maori Battalion (who was fighting in Italy at the time) be guarding Japanese prisoners in rural NSW, Australia?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.242.242.211 (talk) 02:55, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Right, let's put that one up there with the Battle of Rockhampton/Cairns/Albury (which railway station was it in, again? and the Brits dinking tea on Suvla Beach, shall we? "It certainly sounds like something they would do, with all this PC rubbish happening." is supposed to mean what, exactly?KhProd1 (talk) 05:54, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

"Fictional" accounts

The mini-series may have been slightly "fictionalised" as most "based on true events" tellings are (certainly there was controversy at the time over the depiction of an officer murdered by POWs being protrayed as a coward while in PNG), but Die Like the Carp is in no way a fictional account of the breakout, it is a well-researched history based on documents and many interviews.KhProd1 (talk) 05:10, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Contentious cultural views

I think this paragraph certainly needs a citation, or at least be cut off at the colon.

"Although the POWs were treated in accordance with the Geneva Conventions, relations between the Japanese POWs and the guards were poor, due largely to significant cultural differences: Japanese culture at the time regarded capture and detention as shameful and expected soldiers to die rather than accept capture."

Fleeting generalisations about cultural views are difficult to support with evidence. The Japanese certainly kept internment camps of their own (List_of_Japanese_POW_camps_during_World_War_II).

--Carbon Rodney 11:42, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Cowra breakout/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Needs much better sourcing--Grahamec 04:29, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 04:29, 22 January 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 12:22, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Cowra breakout. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050901171134/http://www.naa.gov.au/Publications/fact_sheets/fs198.html to http://www.naa.gov.au/Publications/fact_sheets/fs198.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:07, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Reasons for a break-up

I heard stories that the Australian guards were treating the Japanese POWs very badly - beating, abusing, killing, torturing - against any POW conventions. I heard the Australian government didn't want to give the Japanese soldiers the status of POW etc - so they could do whatever they like with them. Similar to the way they treated the Aboriginal people at that time (as no humans, without any citizenship and rights etc). This is more a racial issue rather than cultural. Need to remember: the Australians are well-known for 1. racism 2. mistreatment of non Anglosaxons (see Boer War or the present detention centres for the refugees). Hope this helps. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.12.188.154 (talk) 12:26, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Not really unless you have references to reliable sources rather than just stories you heard. Pls see WP:V as one of the relevant policies that apply here. Anotherclown (talk) 23:45, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Cowra breakout. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://archive.is/20120805114520/http://www.migrationheritage.nsw.gov.au/exhibition/objectsthroughtime/bugle/ to http://www.migrationheritage.nsw.gov.au/exhibition/objectsthroughtime/bugle/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070404055311/http://anzacday.org.au/history/ww2/anecdotes/cowra.html to http://www.anzacday.org.au/history/ww2/anecdotes/cowra.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20051223100830/http://www.teachingheritage.nsw.edu.au/b_expressing/wb2_mckenzie.html to http://www.teachingheritage.nsw.edu.au/b_expressing/wb2_mckenzie.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 00:03, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Taken from Australian Army unit colour patches

Hi. The following, completely out of the scope of the mentioned article; seems to be already mentioned here. I'm putting it here in case there's anything of use or if some of these sources contain further information - feel free, if you have the time, to investigate this.

Extended content

The Cowra Breakout On 5 August 1944 there was an attempted escape by 1,104 Japanese prisoners from the prisoner of war camp at Cowra, in New South Wales. It was the largest prison escape of World War II, as well as one of the bloodiest. During the escape and ensuing manhunt, four Australian soldiers and 231 Japanese soldiers were killed. Three Australians of the 22nd Australian Garrison Battalion were killed during the breakout – Privates Benjamin Gower Hardy GC, Ralph Jones GC, and Charles Henry Shepherd. Lieutenant Harry Doncaster of the 19th Australian Infantry Training Battalion was killed later when he was ambushed during the recapture of the prisoners. Hardy and Jones were posthumously awarded the George Cross for manning a Vickers machine gun during the breakout and for disabling the weapon and denying the escaping prisoners use of the weapon before they were overwhelmed. All remaining escapees were re-captured and imprisoned within ten days. References

Thanks, RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 15:11, 25 May 2020 (UTC)