Talk:Crystal Castles/Archive 1

This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Intro

Hi! Personally, I really love the intro, very well written, but it sounds a little like advertising/a review. Can someone clean it up a little? I'm not really sure where to go on it.
--Seraphim Whipp 14:15, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah. I'm new in wikipedia editing, and now that i read it: sounds like advertising. Since your corrections came out great and it's quite good at the moment, you should watch out my modifications because my english fails a bit. right now i'm going to polish some things.

iwakami 0:15(GMT), 10 March 2007

ok, now that i polished... maybe it should shortened. There is to much description about their music and should be moved to another topic... hum... maybe "sound description" or "style" or something. Dunno what would be best from now.

iwakami 9:15(GMT), 10 March 2007

That seems like a great idea! It maybe needs a little more sourcing and referencing? It's tough, they're still quite new. They've grabbed the attention of a number of people but googling doesn't provide great numbers of stuff because of the name confusion with Crystal Castles the game. I'll see what I can find.

Seraphim Whipp 12:48, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

The information regarding the band's style- was this from a website or was it handwritten? Don't want it to be copyvio...

Seraphim Whipp 13:17, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, i wrote that while listening to their music. About the lack of info… not only they are new, also they don’t talk much. Now they’re touring with a lot of songs that are asking for a recording. We may see an EP soon and then we might get more answers. I think we should wait while juicing those interviews to an "history" or "band name" topic. They are short-worded and that requires drastic interpretative methods.

iwakami 21:09, 10 March 2007

Hey, I was wondering if Bitpop should be listed as one of this band's genres. Judging by the wiki entry for bitpop and what I've heard of the band it seems appropriate, but, as I don't know that much about either, I thought it best to ask someone who is slightly better informed than me to make the call.

82.10.101.241 18:49, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

yeah. i think your correct about that bitpop definition... either bitpop or gamewave. In essence they're a Pop band that mixes a lot of stuff so i don't know if it would be correct to roll down an enourmous list of genres either... dunno what would be best either.

Iwakami 01:24, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Bitpop pretty much sums em up! Yay! Lol.

Seraphim Whipp 08:53, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I would say that they also incorporate (at least in style, if not music) electroclash elements. But as it is more a style thing and an arguable one at that, i don't know whether or not it would be worth mentioning.

70.54.8.237 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 03:52, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Not really Electroclash, thats kinda retro synth rock dance. Genre is genre, and how they dress and stuff isn't really genre. Also, that bitpop thing, there are so many genres that mean exactly the same thing like chiptune, 8bit and bitpop. So i doesn't really matter I guess. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.106.195.198 (talk) 13:46, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

recent protection for 1 week

The site claims the page was vandalized, but reviewing the recent page changes, all the new information was sourced, including quotes from the band's management, articles form magazines, etc.. and was formateed properly. So how was it vandalism? Check the revision history and see what is supposed to be vandalism? The claims made by the changes are corroborated and sourced, including the reaction of the band's management. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.95.148.98 (talk) 23:53, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

I concur that all this information was verified and should in no way be considered vandalism. None of the changes contained biased information - all of this is completely true, happened, and had sources to confirm. 990master (talk) 00:43, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

One of the changes removed irrelevant information actually. In the discography it mentioned that one album sold out in 4 days or whatever. That's not relevant to a discography section, that is relevant to another section, perhaps history. Discography is titles, release dates, etc.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.95.148.98 (talk) 01:02, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Sorry I think that was me. I have accidentally deleted all the references. I dont know how i did it :S —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.159.120.166 (talk) 21:51, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

It wasn't you. That protection had long since passed; that's how you were able to edit the article :). Don't worry, fixed now :). Seraphim♥Whipp 21:58, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

A link

I would like to find a way to add this into the article as part of the touring section although I don't know anything about this particular tour. [10]
Seraphim Whipp 23:15, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Am I overdoing it with the referencing? :-)

Seraphim Whipp 01:18, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

well... no, if we consider the cop surveillance (MUT****, he just chopped all the text out). you're really doing an excellent job with this - really cool references. i can see here "http://www.nowtoronto.com/issues/2007-01-18/music_vibes.php" a reference to "Claudio Schiffer". i begin to wonder, ain't the name ethin incorrect?... or... he might just be Claudio Ethin Schiffer... or something... i'll try to check that out.

Iwakami 08:14, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Releases

Uhmmm, They didn't release on Kitsune... This is a mistake! I don't know how to fix it myself, so I just post that info here!! Cheers, Philipp 22-04-2007 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.245.123.233 (talk) 12:02, 22 April 2007 (UTC).

Their future releases will be on Young Cubs; Forcefield; Summer Lovers Unlimited; Trouble; and also Kitsune (http://www.myspace.com/crystalcastles). Alice Practice on Merok was their only release to date. Insecticon on Forcefield is in pre-order mode (http://www.myspace.com/forcefieldrecords). Maybe all the other labels should be included.

Iwakami 15:24, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

To the person who claims to be friends with the band

On wikipedia, we deal with verifiability. All the statements used are verified by reliable sources.

If the band want the page any different, they should do more interviews. I, like all the other editors, am only working from what there is available.

Seraphim Whipp 01:10, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Remixes

I think the recent change to the remixes paragraph is a negative change, as all there is now, is just a list. Lists are sloppy and they are mostly avoided on wikipedia. I'm going to re-format the article back the the original way and I'll include all the recent additions made. If anyone disagrees, post back here- revert wars aren't constructive, discussion is.

Seraphim Whipp 17:45, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

EDIT: Scrap that, the original looked sloppy too. I'm going to change the remixes list into a paragraph...I think it will look better than a list.

Seraphim Whipp 17:52, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Cleaned up the list. I removed entries from the list by including them in a new passage of prose called "Remixes". Though it needs to have more prose about background and reaction...

Seraphim Whipp 23:19, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

POV

I think that there was a strong POV in this article. I love the group as much as the rest, but I have made some changes to make the language a little more neutral. Also, my most recent edit has removed some information which I consider a little over-kill at the moment... sometimes less is more.24.68.249.197 22:18, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

I have reverted the changes you made. To my knowledge, there is no opinion or bias in the article. Your changes just removed valid information. If the "less is more" principle applied to wikipedia then no one would bother expanding the articles. The mention of remixes in the lead section was reduced already. The information you removed detracted from the notability which does derive from the fact that they remix songs. Also, I apologise if I sound curt.

Seraphim Whipp 22:44, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

I accept your assertion that the POV is not as strong as I orignally thought. The part of the introdution I removed seemed to be valid, in my eyes, as the aticle is about Crystal Castles, the duo, and the remixes are credited solely to Ethen. I don't know enough about the remixes to say with certainty who they should be credited to, but I accept the articles word on it as it states they are Ethen's remixes. If that is the case, they would be better served in an article dedicated to him (wether that is warranted or not is another question)... but I don't feel they really belong in a Crystal Castles article, unless they are a Crystal Castles production. Also, I have made some slight grammer changes, as Crystal Castles is plural (ie: a duo) the use of 'are' instead of 'is' is proper. I have left the remixes in the introduction for now, and welcome more feedback to resolve the issue. 24.68.249.197 23:52, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Concerning who the remixes should be credited to, from all that I've read, the remixes should be credited to the band as a duo as opposed to just Ethen. I'm not entirely sure when it crept into the article that they were produced solely by Ethen- that must be fixed. I'm guessing someone else or myself must have wrote that based on the fact that he is the instrumentalist...I would check in the history but I am chronically lazy about that sort of thing...I'll fix the article now.

Seraphim Whipp 00:01, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying that... that is what I thought as well. Sorry for the hassle over this, which in retrospect, may have been largely unneccessary. I still think there is a POV in the intro, in particular the quote that describes the band as 'a perfect blend of spontaneity and inspiration'. The word 'perfect' is just to subjective to me to be valid in an encylopaedia. This may be too nit picky for now though, and it is sourced so maybe it should stand. If I ever find a quote stating the band as 'a blend of spontaneity and inspiration' I may be tempted to look for support in using it in the intro instead of the aforementioned one. Short of me writing that quote, and crediting myself though, I don't think it's gonna happen. :)24.68.249.197 00:23, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

No problem. Although...we can just remove the word "perfect"... :P...the quote will still be correct...Whaddya think?

Seraphim Whipp 00:28, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

I like your style... I think the intro gives due justice. Cheers. 24.68.249.197 02:28, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

New Rave??

I think classifing CC as new rave is a bit of a stretch in the classic sense. Any objections to removing this classifier? 24.68.249.197 22:21, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

I have thought this over, and they are definately not New Rave. I have removed this label accordingly. 24.68.249.197 22:31, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Deleted

Last change, Crystal Castles have not cancelled their Australian tour.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.209.20.162 (talk • contribs)

album

My friend got info from the band itself, that the release of what they refered to as album is set to february 2008. However, I'm not sure whether this is a complete new release or Untrust Us EP. Krzyyy 18:40, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

New source; misquote?

Personally, I find Kieron Gillen to be a very respected journalist. This makes it very difficult for me to believe that a whole paragraph was misquoted, especially when it says, as clear as day, "We’re not meant to be a band. Crystal Castles is an accident." I have incorporated the new source and tried to create a neutral portrayal of the situation. Seraphim ^Whipp 16:22, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

I am going to re-write the controversy section, so the reader can decide for themself. Both quotes can be placed in the article. It's neutral and unbiased, offering all sides of the information to the reader. It doesn't "prove" anything. As I wrote above, I find the very idea that a whole paragraph, that was a clear as the one in that article, to have been fully misquoted, unusual and personally, I remain sceptical about the reliability of that particular source.

Seraphim ^Whipp 01:44, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Touring details

For such an underground band, all the information provided is used because it establishes notability. This band fail part of our notability guideline anyway because they haven't released two albums, however, all the information used in this article establishes notability, as do the multiple sources. Some people might argue that Crystal Castles are not a "credible band". At wikipedia, credibility and notability is established through sources. These bands have multiple mentions in the media but in different types of publications. I may improve the Metric article tomorrow.

Seraphim ^Whipp 21:29, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

The Metric tour has not been cancelled and there is no proof of this. There is however, proof that they have done a concert with Metric...I think the photographs sufficiently prove this http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/news/45826-photos-metric-crystal-castles-new-york-ny-092107 .

I have already made it specifically clear the reasons why tour information is so important. Recently, one specific IP insists on removing chunks of content with no references. The link provided in the edit summary did not specifically link to the article they were referring to. I use the blog's search bar, which provided nothing. Regardless, the IP was also insisting that CMJ had been cancelled when it hadn't, only Crystal Castles date. I'm not sure the IP will get my message if I post to their talk page since it changes, so I will say here, that rudeness is unwarranted and persistent incivilty can be met with short blocks.

Seraphim ^Whipp 12:54, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

I think the new recent additions are much better. I'm glad that you (99.233.36.106) have such a new positive attitude; this article is improving.

Seraphim ^Whipp 11:23, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Crystal Castles.jpg

Image:Crystal Castles.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 18:46, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Ataricore? Bitpunk?

Do these genres even exsist or is someone mucking around? Thundermaster367 15:40, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

There are many many genres out there and genres like those are floating about, so yes I guess they do exist. Personally, I prefer the genres that were listed in the article before as they didn't pigoeon hole the band too much.

Seraphim ^Whipp 16:05, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Still, we have no sources for them, they sound stupid and they are only used on this article. So I say we get rid of them. ''I Am The Master Of All Thunder'' (talk) 12:11, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Bitpunk Ataricore

They have no sources and are only on this article. Therefore, I will remove them now. Please don't bring them back without a source. Thundermaster^{Thundermaster's Talk} 16:32, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Sound / general question

I've removed the trivia section and I notice that a lot of the information there is uncited. If anyone can come along and add citations, it would be a great help.

Also, the Sound section currently only consists of a single quote from a review and should probably be either bulked up or integrated into another section of the article. Ams1230 (talk) 00:59, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure if you are only referring to the trivia section but the article, as a whole, has 28 sources. I noticed you removed a quote which described the sound; if I add that back in, the style section may be a little more fleshed out. I can sort through the sources and find many varied quotes about their music though. The trivia section was mostly unreferenced. I did add two sourced, pieces of trivia to that list a while back, which I was planning on intergrating into the article, but someone removed them both. I'll go through the history and see if I can intergrate any of it. I'll give the article some love at the weekend :). Seraphim ^Whipp 02:34, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I was referring to the trivia section as well as the line that you ended up taking out because I didn't have any sources for it. It probably doesn't even need all 28 sources because tour dates aren't contested information. Thanks! Ams1230 (talk) 18:04, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Re: Location

Crystal Castles is a Toronto based band. You can check pretty much any interview/article on them for citation of this (including the one that is already there.) Not to mention video interviews show them to NOT have any variation of an English accent. Maybe they both live in St. Helena now, but they were definitly not based there. I'll leave the name issue because it's pretty clear they aren't comfortable with having their real names floating about, so any name is as good as the next until we get like... birth certificates or whatever. But regarding location, Myspace is a website where people say they're 99 years old. Hardly a worthy citation source. 74.12.180.65 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 02:36, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I hope that 5 reliable news sources settle this; they are Canadian and from Toronto. Seraphim ^Whipp 00:44, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Atari 5200 sound chip?

Isn't that a POKEY chip? (used in many Atari system & Arcade machines, not just the 5200) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.203.80.83 (talk) 00:50, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

yes it is a POKEY chip 990master (talk) 00:51, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

but they also don't actually USE a pokey chip. That's just a fabricated story. It would be impossible to desolder a pokey chip and just slap it into a broken keyboard and make any sound. It would take a few weeks of going through the dev docs for the pokey and creating a microcontroller to translate the keyboard matrix of the keyboard into signals that are identifiable to the pokey as programming instructions to create audio. This has since been acomplished via midi with a midi controlled pokey design, but it does not involve "slapping a chip into a keyboard", which any engineer would tell you is nonsense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.95.148.98 (talk) 01:25, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes it is impossible to "slap" a pokey chip into a keyboard.Where exactly would they replace it?

Only way possible is through a midi sync to the chip, being controlled by a midi keyboard. All of it is loops and samples done in sony acid, and baselines done on a microkorg. Please correct this. Also When i say sampling , i mean heavy, heavy sampling of a full song, without due notification to artist , as in the case of lo-bat. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.246.56.126 (talk) 00:00, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I suggest that this bit about putting a POKEY chip into a keyboard is re-written to be worded as a claim. It is obviously not fact.Moforex (talk) 21:06, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. and you can't just pull a POKEY out of a 5200 and then plug it into a midi keyboard. This story is the equivalent of Claudio Palmieri claiming "I found a dead bird in my garbage, so i put honey on its wings, and the bird came back from the dead, and then it granted me one wish". To someone who is not an engineer or familiar with electronics, it might not sound preposterous, but to someone who is, its PREPOSTEROUS. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.229.30.66 (talk) 08:40, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

OK. I reworded the sentence; I hope no one minds. It was kind of a run-on sentence anyway...Moforex (talk) 18:21, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Good job! Seraphim♥Whipp 23:35, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

"“I found a keyboard in the garbage next to my building,” says Claudio, the group’s defacto producer. “I tried getting it to work, but it wouldn’t. A week before, though, I had found an Atari 5200. So I ripped the soundchip out of that thing and put it in the keyboard, and I started being able to control the sounds.” He gave a dozen or so makeshift beats to Alice, a local Toronto girl he knew only by virtue of a friend’s crush."
This is from the FADER artice, and it ties in quite a bit with the controversy of the band stealing other's work. You can't take a chip from there and "plug and play" with a keyboard.
The mp3 files from the band have been under spectral analysis, which showed the beats are identical to another song licenced under the Creative Commons license. The CC license states that if a song under a CC song is sampled/used, the result must be published under a CC licence.
I suggest you all read this article: http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/05/05/chiptune-music-theft-continues-crystal-castles-abuses-creative-commons-license/
trevor brown's blog( warning, Not safe for work): http://www.pileup.com/babyart/blog/?p=81
Also, the 8-bit collective site, where the music "samples" were taken from: http://8bitcollective.com/
An 8-bit collective thread on the matter: http://8bitcollective.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=4417&p=1
CC license: http://creativecommons.org/
I'll sign this once I login.

Album artwork and various changes

This section is as neutral and encyclopedic as it should be.

It was Trevor Brown's original artwork used, not a "popular photo" and that wording dilutes the explanation of why this was covered by the media.
The external link is from a reliable music website, not a spam link.
The source used says that the remixes were by Crystal Castles and nowhere says they were explicitly done by Ethan Kath.

There is nothing in that content that isn't backed up against sources, so please don't misrepresent them by placing false information in front of them. Seraphim♥ ^Whipp 15:13, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Also, let's try to keep this neutral. We can't have things skewed one way to make CC "look good" or Brown "look good". We're not passing judgement on the band or Trevor Brown, we're just representing things that have been printed by reliable sources. Seraphim♥ ^Whipp 11:55, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

My copy of the crystal castles album did not include trevor brown's artwork. however it did say "cover illustration: trevor brown" on it, despite the fact it wasnt his drawing it did have a photo on it —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.8.86.203 (talk) 17:01, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Claudio Palmieri - there is no such person as Ethan Kath

Why is the name Ethan Kath being used. The band members names are Alice and Claudio. Who the hell is ethan? He's a made up, fictional person, created as a joke by the band, a joke they ran with.

This has been sourced and changed many times, but wikipedia keeps putting the name back to ethan kath..

http://www.thefader.com/articles/2006/12/12/walking-on-glass http://www.exclaim.ca/articles/generalarticlesynopsfullart.aspx?csid1=119&csid2=844&fid1=30182

For real, Claudio Palmieri —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.95.148.98 (talk) 01:11, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Ever heard the word "stagename"? I fail to see how the nickname "Ethan" is a fictional person. There is a line of distinction between the artists' real name, or a stage name. Ethan Deth has since long been his stagename while playing with Kill Cheerleader. Stage names are very common in rock, metal or punk. I doubt this has anything to do with jokes - Alice Glass also calls him "Ethan", and not Claudio, I just read a new interview today. For example, Dee Dee Ramone is really called Douglas Glenn Colvin, but does that make him a fictional person? No. --Sg121212 (talk) 14:55, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Plagiarism

While the Trevor Brown section is completely relevant, I don't think it's fair to include the "8-bit group" section for the following reasons: 1) If you listen to the clips provided on the cited website, it is not a clear cut case of plagiarism (unlike the Madonna image and Ayo Technology). It's highly subjective. 2) Even if it was a direct rip, neither one of the listed CC songs was sold on an album/LP/etc... Both were posted as demos on myspace with no direct claim of originality. These are the same two people who posted a practice session on myspace. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Underdog000 (talk • contribs) 07:09, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

that's untrue. posting on myspace is a direct claim of originality. The user agreement and the upload process both state you must own the music or have the right to upload it. Also, having music on a page with the name "crystal castles" indicates the music is 'crystal castles'". The case with Bitter Hearts is more clearcut, but the case with insecticon is not. While its not simply stealing the tune etc... its misuse of copyrighted work for commercial purposes (marketing and advertising are commercial activies and myspace is Crystal Castle's most successful marketing tool so far.). Anyhow, this is what is being debated, but it is established now independantly in the media that crystal castles have violated at least Lo-bat's Creative Commons liscence (demonstrated fact). That could be included neutrally as "Crystal Castles did use Lo-Bat's song (fact, verified by the manager Mikey Apples on 8bc.org) without following the creative commons liscence requirements". established in the big real internet called the world ans multifariously verified and sourced. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.229.30.66 (talk) 08:24, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Exclaim.ca and blogto.com have now reported on this controversy, so I think we are on solid ground to include it. It needs to be presented neutrally of course, meaning that we should not actually state that they copied without permission or did anything improper, only that the allegation has been made by members of the chiptune community and reported on by Canadian music news sites. See [11], [12].<eleland/talkedits> 15:32, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Underdog000 - I suggest you read up on your law. Also, Crystal Castles, through a representitive, has admitted they did this. Moforex (talk) 21:12, 6 May 2008 (UTC) [13]

it is neutral to state they did do something improper, if they did do something improper. It isn't neutrality to take a demonstrated fact and say 'it has been alleged that". The neutral truth is "it has been demonstrated that" crystal castles used Covox - Sunday and Lo-bat - my little droid needs a hand. It has been authenticated, verified by the manager, demonstrated scientificially with spectral analysis verifying artifacts of the original work in the crystal castles songs etc... It would be like saying "it has been alleged that the earth revolves around the sun" or "it has been claimed that the sky may be blue". That's not neutrality. Neutrlaity means that the facts be put in, without additions. Without commentary. Without judgement. So no diatribes about copyright, or what dinks you think Crystal Castles may be etc.. just the FACT that they illegally sampled these two songs. Without any coloring. No "these ruthless brutal inhuman ingrates have stolen the precious chiptunes!" and no "these two innocent dupes accidentally hit "steal" on their macbook pro"... just NEUTRAL. the fact. Also, seriously, how long do we have to see the name of the non existant person "ethan kath" (despite numerous articles and interviews in which he uses different names, ethan fowls for instance, ethin elsewhere). Claudio Palmieri. that's the man's name who makes the music. Claudio Palmieri (also established objectively in the real world of published journalism and canadian birth certificates and drivers liscences and so on). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.229.30.66 (talk) 08:31, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Citation conflicts with article data

The article names Ethan Kath and Alice whatever as members of the band, and then cites an article in "thefader" (citation 7) The article clearly states the names of the band members are "claudio and alice". CLEARLY in the article which is used to cite the names "Ethan and Alice" The word "ethan" does not even appear once in thefader article... click the link used for citation 7 (http://www.thefader.com/blog/articles/2006/12/12/walking-on-glass) and hit CTRL+F in your browser. Then type "ethan" or "kath".

The real-world objective fact is about Claudio Palmieri. BUT, the wikiepedia information is about Ethan Kath..

Please, this is rediculous. Will i be seeing articles about Borris Dawin and Frank Shakespeare soon? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.229.30.66 (talk) 08:35, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Chiptune genre?

Chiptune is defined on Wikipedia as 'music written in sound formats where all the sounds are synthesized in realtime by a computer or video game console sound chip, instead of using sample-based synthesis'. Isn't this something Crystal Castles definitely does not do? I sincerely think the claim that Crystal Castles belongs in the chiptune genre should be removed from this article. Any opinions? Moforex (talk) 18:27, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia might define it that way, but many chiptune musicians do not use original video game synthesizers. They use sample based trackers, for instance (The amiga had no synthesizers, but the amiga is popular chiptunes platform nonetheless, due to its interesting DACs on the Paula chip (itself not a synthesis chip)). SNES music is made entirely by samples. VIRT, and other well known exponents of chiptunes, use samples. The idea is that chiptunes are in some way limited to basic waveforms (or sometimes FM) and samples in some way matching the limitations of a synthesis chip. Not necessarily music made ON that synthesis chip. virt talks about it on his site. http://virt.vgmix.com/ i think virt's authority on what is or is not a chiptune is fairly authoritative. But since on sites like, for instance, 8bc.org, many chiptune artists (Self identifying and identified by the community) use VSTs which use basic waveforms (square, triangle, pulse, saw, white noise), or sample trackers like Milkytracker, we can move past the "no samples, exclusive on a synthesis chip" deffinition. How could you make a .mod or a .s3m, or a .it or .xm WITHOUT samples? those popular chiptunes formats are 100% sample based (and have been since those trackers were written, and always will be sample based.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.48.205.46 (talk) 21:38, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I do believe that you are wrong. The Amiga had sound chips as did the SNES. ...to claim that those computers/video game systems didn't have 'synthesizers'... jeez. You mean that they didn't have oscillators (a better word in this situation is operators). Your logic and word use on that front pretty much implies that in your view the DX7 isn't a synth. Milkytracker, by the way, is capable of producing tones without samples. Read the tutorial on chiptunes (or you could watch it on youtube)... right there, however, we may get into semantics as to what constitutes 'samples'. Furthermore, Sample based synthesis is PCM synthesis, which nothing you mention use. Chiptunes are made with PHASEDISTORTION/FREQUENCY MODULATION SYNTHESIS. There is a growing trend, i might add, that those that use emulators are not to be taken seriously (i've seen this on the prophet64 forums). Anyway, this is a total digression... do you think Crystal Castles are chiptune? Moforex (talk) 21:55, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Well in the case of Crystal Castles, Just because you steal from chiptune artists ,doesnt mean you make chiptunes.Since when does copy and paste = chiptunes? And dont you dare tell me that theft is unverified, Its on Create Digital Music. I should say once again, that Crystal Castles are NOT Chiptunes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.253.42.79 (talk) 05:22, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

They're definitely not chiptune, they're far better than chiptune. They've evolved the genre into something more. They did "sample" the whole song, but they stole nothing. They made zero profit off of Insecticon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.56.172.90 (talk) 22:34, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Are you stupid? They steal from real artists and suddenly they are better?So They Steal from that genre, add vocals, and it becomes better? Well if thats true im off to go sing over a few metallica tracks, and make metal better. Actually Far better, its not even going to be metal anymore.Think before you talk , you moron —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.129.183.1 (talk) 04:38, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Crystal Castles are at the top because they have a talent a mixing and adding vocals that these little artists don't. Get over it —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.241.188.24 (talk) 19:19, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Winge, winge, winge. If you like them cool, you dont have to say anything. If you dont like them then you can protest in a constructive way about their sampling (thats perfectly respectable). Whats stupid is just complaining. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.106.195.198 (talk) 13:53, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Reorganising the article

I think it'd be a good idea to merge the plagiarism controversies into the history section - right now the article is really disorganised. Sceptre ^(talk) 23:45, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree. However, if the section on plagiarism was expanded, it should be it's own section. I, personally, believe it should be expanded. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.119.39.236 (talk) 23:03, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

very sorry - this should be under a 'remixes' section but i do not understand wikipedia. i removed the section on health remixing crystal castlse which has no verifiable sources and appears to be a complete fabrication. I also removed the refernce to some bedroom producer making bootleg remixes of their songs. however, i thin k it could be noteworthy that i think they did have a remix competition of air war and CFCF and Pictureplane both made some fairly noteworthy remixes which might have got some blog attention. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.8.86.203 (talk) 17:12, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Live Review

As an editor at Crawdaddy!, and to comply with COI guidelines, I am not posting the link to this review. But if anyone needs a live review source to cite from, please go ahead. I appreciate your time. 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by FenderRhodesScholar (talk • contribs) 22:31, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Ethan's Name

Ethan's name is "Ethan" not Claudio Barbieri. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Freakishmedia (talk • contribs) 01:43, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

ALICE SMITH?! WTF?!

Who the hell is Alice Smith? Theres no sources or evidance that "Alice Smith" in Crystal Castles exists. As far as we all know it is most definatly Alice GLASS not Smith, and Ethan's name IS ETHAN KATH —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.198.96.34 (talk) 00:52, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Suggestion

I suggest this article gets locked or unable to edit the members section because it states on the official CRYSTAL CASTLES myspace that members are ETHAN KATH and ALICE GLASS and that is how it should stand as what it says there. Thanks. (90.192.168.86 (talk) 23:29, 17 July 2008 (UTC))

Annoyed

I'm sick of people changing the Band members part ITS ETHAN AND KATH AND ALICE GLASS^[1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.192.168.135 (talk) 21:24, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Remix Album source?

Could whoever put in 'Remix Album TBC' into the discography give a source on this? Can't find anything about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.229.20.219 (talk) 14:10, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

"real" names.

Okay, please put a reliable source up for those "real" names, because I doubt they are true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.192.168.156 (talk) 23:40, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

real name claudio? link is below from exclaim.ca

Real Names

her real name is vicky and his is dan i know them

 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.58.253.57 (talk) 11:10, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

RE: Real Names

Yes but on their official MySpace it says Alice Glass & Ethan Kath. It may be the case that they are their real names but those on the MySpace are the monikers they are going under for this band and therefore are the names they wish to be known as. Also as Alice Glass isn't even on the track Crimewave in any way it is not a source that should be credited.

Freakishmedia

Freakishmedia (talk · contribs) is apparently affiliated with http://www.freakishmedia.co.uk, who seems to be doing promotion for the band. I've only looked at their last dozen edits, and most seem to be constructive and free of COI (not all though).
Anyway, they have released this image into the public domain, which was recently removed from the article as an apparent unfree image. Based on the above I see no reason to doubt that they are the copyright holder of it which is why I will readd it to the article (or rather a cropped version of it, per WP:IUP#User-created images). --Amalthea^Talk 21:06, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

This issue is currently raised at WP:AN. Please wait for that to be resolved by admins first. Just because he works for Freakishmedia (there is a slim chance he just likes the company), that does not necessarily mean he has the right to give away the companies images. — Realist² 21:08, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Oh, alright. Feel free to mark my image on commons as speedy-deletable if it turns out he hasn't, or notify me and I'll do it. Cheers, Amalthea^Talk 21:28, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

OK, I made a link to this discussion on the AN report. Lets just wait and see what props up, better to be safe than sorry. — Realist² 21:30, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't see any proof that they hold copyrights to the image? Seems to be simply a poorly edited image. Something that any fan would be able to do. Could have been taken from anywhere off the internet such as on last.fm, where the *original unmodified* image is currently up: http://www.last.fm/music/Crystal+Castles/+images —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ticktockcock (talk • contribs) 01:53, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, it's not exactly the original image, there's slightly more material at the top and the right in [14] compared to [15]. But I agree, the two heads have been layered into the image very sloppily, with a very visible and jagged boundary. Curious. Let's wait what he has to say. --Amalthea^Talk 02:31, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

External Links

I think the 3 links (MySpace, Official Forum and Remix MySpace) are enough the rest are just fansites trying to get linked on here and more popular. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.198.96.182 (talk) 12:01, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

I believe one more link should be added: http://crystalcastles.org serves as a news gathering site for all Crystal Castles related news to report and inform the public, in a unbiased fashion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ticking (talk • contribs) 23:04, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, if you really need a fourth opinion about this: I don't, per the external link guidelines.
By the way, your page is duplicating this article without proper attribution, which is a violation of the GFDL.
Amalthea^Talk 23:22, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Ok, why is the Remix Myspace included? It clearly states: [THIS IS A FAN PAGE] on it's myspace page. This is an irrelevant page. And the Official forum link holds no proof that it, in fact, is the official forum for Crystal Castles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ticktockcock (talk • contribs) 00:51, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, you are right, I hadn't looked at the remix myspace page before. I'll remove it, too. I see no reason to doubt however that the forum hosted by freakishmedia isn't the official forum – as discussed below, they seems to be doing the PR for the band.
Oh, and please note that you absolutely *can* use the article on your page, I didn't say you had to remove it. If you look at WP:COPYRIGHT, it is considered quite sufficient if you include a small note and backlink at the bottom saying that the content was based on this article. That what I meant with "proper attribution".
Cheers, Amalthea^Talk 01:14, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Got it. Speaking in PR terms though, couldn't CrystalCastles.org be considered doing the same as well? They are promoting the band too: Just recently a remix/cover compilation by fans was announced to be distributed amongst fans freely. Link: free fan cover/remix compilation That is promotion for the band, as well.

Band articles should typically contain a link to the bands homepage, if they have one. In this case, the band's homepage is at http://CrystalCastles.cc which redirects to their rather contentless myspace page. Since they also (seem) to have an official forum that isn't linked from their myspace page it makes sense to include that, too.
There are two problems with links to fan pages. First, there is the axiomatic reason that an encyclopaedic page shouldn't have links to unofficial fan pages (and only very rarely to official ones). They aren't usually of encyclopaedic value, and Wikipedia articles don't want to be a list of weblinks or a directory of related pages. They can be OK if the article is still very small and there is useful, encyclopaedic information to be found at the link targets, but the better an article becomes, the less external links it should have (see e.g. Metallica#External_links). Second, there's the practical problem deciding which fansites should be included, and which shouldn't. What's usually happening is that if one gets added to an article, others will naturally be added quite rapidly after that.
Amalthea^Talk 02:57, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Ah, ok, fair enough. That makes absolute sense. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ticktockcock (talk • contribs) 04:07, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

New music

Someone needs to put up their forthcoming album and ep containing their older tracks. Both of these were mantioned in NME magazine frm 7/10/08 (with CC on the cover.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abs6392 (talk • contribs) 15:44, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Alice Glass

Hey. I've made a page specifically for Alice Glass which you can access if you go the crystal castles page and then click on alice glass. However if you type alice glass into the search it just redirects you to the general Crystal Castles page. Someone needs to delete this redirect bit but I don't know how to do it. You'll notice that on the page I mention the NME interviews but don't give references. This is because they were printed in the magazinne and did not appear online. If you really want to know they come from the NMEs on 26th April 2008 and 11th OPctober 2008 (the two times that Crystal Castles have appeared on the cover.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.78.203.146 (talk) 14:00, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

toshiba ad features crystal castle

the ad features some "Air War"-remix starting at ~2:10 see: http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=de&q=toshiba+crystal+castles&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 84.188.226.102 (talk) 22:15, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

More info on this commercial can be found here: http://www.crystalcastles.org/2008/11/611/

Videography

Why are several listed as "Banned"? This needs a likn or citation or some kind of explanationa s "banned" is a fairly meaningless term without explanation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.112.94.71 (talk) 21:33, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Removed, agree with you. — Realist² 21:46, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

The term "banned" has been used by the band/management in the past, as it's videos which they do not approve of, usually videos which have been leaked or later pulled due to discontent with the overall final product etc. In cases, the videos were faked for various reasons shown here: http://www.crystalcastles.org/2008/10/crimewave-video-explained/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 13:39, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Dallas Controversy

Crystal Castles was scheduled to perform a sold-out show at the Granada Theater in Dallas on April 14, 2009 with local band, Vega, as its opening act. The two groups already had performed together the previous night at La Zona Rosa in Austin, TX. The Dallas show was scheduled to begin at 9:00 PM, but as of 10:00 PM, only a small number of people had been let into the venue, while the majority remained outside in a massive line which stretched beyond the back parking lot. Finally, at approximately 10:30 PM, Granada management informed the crowd that the show was canceled. Ethan Kath came out of the back door of the venue and confirmed the cancellation with those farther back in line, blaming the Granada management and stating that the Granada management canceled the show because they feared Crystal Castles would "blow their sound system."

This was supposedly confirmed the next day by Crystal Castles' management, who, in a statement released to a Dallas blog inquiring about the incident, said, "The people at Granada pulled the plug on CC during CC's soundcheck, claiming they feared CC would 'blow the soundsystem.' ... The blame goes to whoever booked this band at this ill-equipped venue." Additionally, it was claimed in this statement that "Vega stole an FX-Pedal from CC."^[2]^[3]^[4] Vega categorically denied the accusation, stating that it stemmed from a misunderstanding. According to Vega's Alan Palomo, Crystal Castles asked to borrow one of Vega's guitars. Following Crystal Castles' set, one of their FX-pedals was mistakenly placed in the guitar case along with the borrowed guitar. Vega realized what had happened and called Crystal Castles, informing them of the mistake.^[5]^[6]

Upon the release of the above statement by Crystal Castles, Mike Schoder, owner of the Granada Theater, replied, intending to set the record straight. According to Schoder, the above statement was false. Crystal Castles called the Granada earlier in the day and demanded that Vega be removed as an opening act. When Crystal Castles arrived at the Granada Theater, they then refused to enter the venue and prepare for a sound check until Vega had completely vacated the premises. Crystal Castles then performed their sound check at 6 PM, which was originally scheduled for 4 PM. Crystal Castles did not like the sound of their kick drum and insisted that more subwoofers be brought in. By this time, all electronics rental stores were closed, so the Granada management offered to dismantle the subwoofer stacks and place them in different positions for Crystal Castles. Crystal Castles had informed the Granada that they would rather cancel the show than not have enough kick drum sound, so the Granada management did everything in its power to accommodate Crystal Castles and prevent the show from being canceled. Finally, after 10 PM, Ethan Kath informed the Granada management that the show would be canceled.^[7]^[8]^[9]

Following this incident, all negative comments related to it have been deleted from the official Crystal Castles MySpace page.^[10]

I've moved this section out of the main article for editors to consider it; it appears to take up far too much space and be too detailed and is therefore a breach of WP:UNDUE, as well as being poorly-sourced and not far of WP:SOAPBOXING. Please remember that policy on biographies applies to people in bands and therefore this section should have very reliable sources. Thanks. --Rodhull andemu 17:35, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

First of all, it is not a breach of WP:UNDUE. Explain to me, please, how it violates the following: "Neutrality requires that the article should fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by a reliable source, and should do so in proportion to the prominence of each." The information presents both viewpoints: that of Crystal Castles and that of the Granada's management.

Secondly, it is not poorly-sourced. Go to the sources and listen to both of the radio interviews. The sources are well-respected news blogs in the Dallas indie-scene. I suppose I have no choice but to assume that you are well-versed enough with the Dallas indie scene to know which news blogs are reputable and which ones are not. The reliability of the sources is unquestionable. Do your homework.

Lastly, it is not guilty of soapboxing. I have no agenda and no vested interest in what transpired. I was merely reporting the facts of the situation. Spikeslayer (talk) 18:32, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

I accept your last point, but I was specifically referring to the fourth paragraph of WP:UNDUE in relation to the amount of detail recited. Rodhull andemu 18:55, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

It most certainly is undue weight, three paragraphs on the issue. Reading the article, people would think it was a dominant aspect of their notability, when it is not. In in space of time it will seem trivial (hindsight is a wonderful thing). I see no coverage in notable third party publications that warrants this level of depth. It is truly misleading to a reader (I appreciate it's not your intention to mislead) because it implies that this is a very important issue, when really, it's not. I would strongly suggest you provide notable sources and trim this, so that it is no more than one paragraph in length. We do not use "indie sources" at wikipedia, we use "mainstream sources". If it is not covered in mainstream publications, it's really irrelevant. — R ² 00:08, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

I think an appropriate analogy here would be an importation of the text of Altamont Free Concert into Rolling Stones; that event is notable enough, because it is supported by multiple reliable sources, to have it's own article- but in the history of the Rolling Stones, it's a long-gone event, although unfortunate. We do not yet have the benefit of historical perspective in relation to this band, and it may be in the long run irrelevant. Meanwhile, details about timings and "who said what" for one gig that hasn't achieved the notoriety of Altamont and is objectively unlikely to do so unless the brou ha-ha spreads into some mainstream journalism, are irrelevant to a general audience; and it is they to whom we are catering, as er, an encyclopedia. Rodhull andemu 00:19, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Full band picture

I took this picture of the full band (with tour drummer Christopher Robin) with my iPhone while backstage at Lollapalooza on August 7th, 2009. It's not the highest resolution, but perhaps it might be preferable to the current picture of just Alice?

picture —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bort27 (talk • contribs) 18:09, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Crystal Castles infuses elements of the chiptune genre

into its music. I believe that 'chiptune' should be placed under the genre section of the info-box —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.56.175.127 (talk) 01:25, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Differences

Diff

I removed some OR and POV language and a statement that's been unsourced since at least April 2009, shifted a rather large quote from the lead to a reception section I created, restored a removed source, copy edited the English. What's the problem, 69? Geoff B (talk) 17:08, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Anon IP reverts.

Seeing as the anon IPs won't discuss the changes, I'll outline them here and I hope some others will contribute.

Changes can be seen here.

"Statement." (BBC) - We don't note in the article body where the comment was from in such a manner, doing so is vulgar and borders on advertising ("Wow, look who said this about my favourite band everyone!").

The sample is less than 1 second long - you're making an excuse. Sample length is irrelevant.

Kath uses a modified keyboard with an Atari 5200 sound chip - the anon IP claims this is false, but the source says "A week before, though, I had found an Atari 5200. So I ripped the soundchip out of that thing and put it in the keyboard, and I started being able to control the sounds.” The anon IP offers no source to support their assertion this is false.

Think that's it. Geoff B (talk) 01:38, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Musical Style and Reception

Seriously, why do each of these have their own section? They're both only a sentence long. It's pointless. Either merge them with a different part of the article, or expand them. 4.167.172.88 (talk) 06:14, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Agreed, I've deleted reception, and you are welcome to merge musical style.Greg343 (talk) 04:21, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

I feel like reception and musical style should be seperate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Electrion20 (talk • contribs) 00:44, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Ahem actually they (musical style + reception) aren't going to be merged into themselves. They're going to be merged into whatever section they fit. Musical style could be merged into the summary but at least reception's been lengthened by a lot. --Newtown11 (talk) 21:22, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Copyright dispute (releasing the song on myspace)

To the person who insists that the tracks were unreleased,

"On Crystal Castles’ end of things, they have barely met any of these Creative Commons requirements. So far, the only action taken by the band to right the situation has been to change one of their MySpace page’s posting “Insecticon” to now read, “CC vs. Lo-Bat,” instead of giving full credit for the song to themselves."

Exclaim article

Putting the track on your myspace is releasing it. 69.137.46.98 (talk) 03:18, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

This is ridiculous. Crystal Castles did not upload these demos. It was the record label (Lies Records) that uploaded them. And they uploaded them on the RECORD LABEL's myspace, without the permission of the band. They didn't even get the titles right. They were demos for a reason. Anyone can sample music without permission and fool around with the sounds. It's when you start turning a profit on it and/or start claiming it as an original work that you run into problems. The members of Crystal Castles did neither of these things. Underdog000 (talk) 07:15, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

There have been accusations that the band performed these tracks. Even if it wasn't the band who put them up on the myspace page, they were still released because it went on the label's myspace. It's promoting yourself with stolen work, which is almost as bad as putting it on a CD and selling it. The label should have made sure that Kath didn't swipe someone's sounds before they put it up. Ceolwulf (talk) 18:28, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Tracks were never performed, here's Ethan's version of this whole misunderstanding:

Source: http://www.crystalcastles.org/2008/06/crystal-castles-respond-to-chip-music-controversy/#more-35

As Crystal Castles member Ethan Kath wrote in an email to Pitchfork, “These infringing songs are early unreleased tracks which were never performed. They are the most awful tracks associated with the band and [vocalist] Alice [Glass] herself hasn’t heard most of these tracks. I put these tracks together myself and then discarded them because I thought they were too poor for release. Labels were interested in collecting these sample-based tracks but we did not want to release these tracks because we did not like the songs. And even if we did like the songs, there were too many samples to clear. Three of the tracks sample early Madonna, three of the tracks sample Joy Division, two of the tracks sample the Stooges, three of the tracks sample Lo-Bat, four of the tracks sample Covox.” According to the band, the controversy stems from the appearance of several unreleased Crystal Castles tracks online. At least one– which is titled “Insecticon” (erroneously, apparently) and samples Lo-Bat– appeared on the MySpace page of Lies Records, the label to which CC originally licensed their self-titled debut album.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 13:50, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

This is still disputed; the article glosses over this and says the songs sampled were never performed or published commercially, which is untrue; Covox's Sunday was indeed performed and sold commercially (and I'm digging up a source for that, it will be a day at most -- I'm a tad busy) but until then a 404'd article that there is no record of saying that the songs were still available under the CC license is definitely not an acceptable source and for the time being this article should be listed in disputed until this is cleared up -- which it most certainly isn't. The Crystal Castles link posted above is definitely not NPOV -- it's the band's site! -- so this is open for debate. Do not untag the article unless one side or the other can get an NPOV source. ----Chromium (talk) 07:22, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Everyone forgets: Lobat never made any claims that his music was stolen. In fact, everyone but him complained about it. How is this a legitimate dispute, when it's a bunch of teenagers behind a computer screen getting worked up about someone else's work being used, when the person responsible for the work doesn't care. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Special:Contributions/Yes (talk) 11:07, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Timberland

Shouldent their be a section about timberland stealing the music from courtship dating and using it in a 50 cent song? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.168.205.120 (talk) 13:31, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Please give us a reliable source for this claim. Geoff B (talk) 13:40, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

hey, he stole the sample for the song ayo technology from courtship dating here is a youtube video showing or you can just listed to the two tracks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LepUbHjT-Z8 it is also mentioned on the wiki for ayo technology in quite some detail http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayo_Technology#Background and the citation they use is http://8bc.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=529 seems he is a dick who steals everyones music94.168.205.120 (talk) 19:55, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Reliable source, please--not YouTube or a Wikipedia article. Drmies (talk) 19:57, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

can you not read??? i gave you the citation from the other wiki and the youtube video was for your convenience not as a citation. but here you go

http://www.whosampled.com/sample/view/2347/50%20Cent%20feat.%20Justin%20Timberlake%20and%20Timbaland-Ayo%20Technology_Crystal%20Castles-Courtship%20Dating/

or

http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/6568821

or

http://www.thecouchsessions.com/2008/05/courtship-dating-vs-ayo-technology/

94.168.205.120 (talk) 20:08, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Settle down. I can read very well; stop being rude. You may want to read our definition of "reliable sources", at WP:RS. Also, "dick" is not the kind of language to use: we are supposed to be adults here who adhere to certain standards of politeness. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 21:54, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

im well aware about RS and i think calling a theif a dick is apt and valid unless you want to stifle free speech... i did not call you a dick although you are certainly behaving like one.... if a citation is viable for the 50 cent article it is viable for the crystal castles article... btw are you in some form of homo erotic relationship with timberland?? what the hell is your problem???!?!? 94.168.205.120 (talk) 22:00, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a free-speech zone. If you wish to insult artists and editors, do it on your Facebook page or during recess. Unless you have any reliable sources to suggest here, let's close this discussion. Drmies (talk) 22:09, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

every citation i have given is valid and only ass clowns who dont have a clue about privace have facebook accounts, im going to make the edit under the be bold rule and you can go eat a dick. also how on earth can you call someone who steals and plagerizes others works an artist.. the term to be used is THIEF. 94.168.205.120 (talk) 22:11, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Facebook is a social networking site: anyone can sign up and get an account (check out www.facebook.com), and then they have a page where they can post their opinions, even if those opinions give evidence of less-than-perfect manners. As for your addition, I have asked other editors to evaluate your claims at Wikipedia:Content_noticeboard#THEFT.21.21.21_WITH_VALID_CITATIONS.21.21.21_right...._at_Crystal_Castles_.28band.29. Have a nice day. Drmies (talk) 22:24, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Here's a more reliable source that says they both used the same sample legally. No stealing from either party.

Also, according to this source, the band sharing it's name with an Atari game is coincidence: "We learned about the videogame long after naming the band." OzW (talk) 05:50, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Dead links

^ Solarski, Matthew. "Crystal Castles Respond to Chip Music Controversy". Pitchfork Media. Retrieved 2008-06-18. can someone fix, please? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.86.10.242 (talk) 21:56, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Another dead-link reference:

"Crystal Castles Caught Up in Artwork Controversy". http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/news/50168-crystal-castles-caught-up-in-artwork-controversy. Retrieved 2008-04-23.

Attys (talk) 21:42, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Reception

The quote taken from the BBC review (Reference 12) has been reworded in this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.208.1.108 (talk) 01:07, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

List of singles and so on.

I'm not particularly happy with the pro-Crystal Castles POV currently coming from several different IPs. A list of singles, among other things, are basic elements of a Wikipedia article on a band. Whether those singles charted or not is irrelevant. Simply removing it, without leaving any kind of rationale (and characterising the efforts of other editors because you disagree with them as 'vandalism') is not how it's done. A particularly cute effort was made to misrepresent a Top 100 album list from NME as a Top 50 album list. This sort of thing has to stop. Please discuss the changes you want to make on the talk page. Find reliable sources. Don't twist or spin info, because you'll only get found out. Geoff B (talk) 16:43, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Link dead

Link 22 is dead

Blutch85 (talk) 18:29, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Please update the fucking genres

Neither "electronic" or "experimental" are actual genres. Electronica and Noise would be more accurate terms to describe this band.

I think Nintendocore would be an accurate description of at least a part of their songs. --83.77.184.235 (talk) 09:56, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Time to add a page for the Cystal Castles (III) ?

We have a picture, confirmed track list and of course we can make references to direction of the album. Not only this individual tracks have information from reliable sources such as NME. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.100.35.163 (talk) 14:50, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Billboard Hot 100

Just saying - the article says the album debuted on it, while the Hot 100 is strictly a chart for singles. The album equivalent is the Billboard 200 albums chart. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.227.164.1 (talk) 22:55, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Other Bands

Didn't this page originally mention something about other bands Ethan and Alice have been in? I was quite intrested to try and find some of it, but its not here anymore so I've lost my starting point. -Lester drake 29/08/2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.177.221.191 (talk) 15:21, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

If I can find the article that has the information in it, I will. It was in a Toronto news article online that said they were pissed off at Ethan for lying about his name, and then went on to find out he was in some other band before CC.--69.250.40.163 (talk) 18:30, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

((--~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.250.40.163 (talk) 18:34, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

I second it would be good to add the other bands Kath and Glass have been, or are in. Maybe under a 'relented acts' heading in the info table. Jonpatterns (talk) 11:23, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Atari 5200 Chip

I found an interview with Ethan Kath where, when asked about his Atari 5200 Chip, says: "That's a misquote. I was asked about my current experiments and I said I was trying to "fit" an Atari chip into a keyboard. It was impossible. Those ancient Atari systems used a special chip. A Pokie chip. There's pins on the chips that fit into the Atari system and naturally don't fit into the slots of a synth. At the time of the interview, I was trying to build a bridge between the Pokie chip and the slots in my synth. They must have assumed I had later successfully built the bridge. I didn't."

here's the interview: http://sparksvsspace.blogspot.com/2007/06/3-newer-cc-remixes.html

CrookedKid23 (talk) 22:25, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Using that same interview, Ethan states that they aren't 8-bit either. Can people stop claiming that please? --98.233.250.37 (talk) 13:42, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

While not all their music is 8-bit, a large number of the sounds that they make use of are 8-bit. The band or others can say otherwise, but it doesn't change that fact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.87.113.252 (talk) 14:53, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

A lot of the supposed Atari sourced patches sound like the Elektron sidstation - this is a sound module that uses the sound chip from the Commodore 64. Terryhfs (talk) 22:29, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Amazing. The article now says that they use the atari chip, and cites the interview where he says he doesn't —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.38.225.11 (talk) 16:12, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Some reference to chip / 8-bit music should be made in the 'musical style' section (especially in the early work) ? Jonpatterns (talk) 11:25, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Touring

"Touring" section gets oddly specific with regards to which cities were played on a tour — isn't this tedious information, especially when it's years after the fact? Are there fan sites or other resources that people can visit if they want to know that level of detail? Withdrawretreat (talk) 03:40, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

@Withdrawretreat:Agreed, the section should be trimmed as there is too much non notable detail. A separate article could be used for the complete list of dates if some editors want to keep the information on Wikipedia.Jonpatterns (talk) 19:02, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Lede too long

The lede is, to my mind, too long - normally there should only be a summary of the article's contents here.Jonpatterns (talk) 19:02, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Witch house

Please stop adding this genre without a proper source. Current source was weirdly about an artist called Witch House who add albums named after other artists. Andrzejbanas (talk) 18:34, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

References

Re: edits by Redhot1000

A sentence in the article currently reads:

In mid-2008, Crystal Castles were involved in two controversies. Pitchfork Media and the Torontoist blog published stories about Crystal Castles' use of Trevor Brown's artwork without his permission, although the band later provided screenshots of an email exchange where permission had in fact been given.

This is a significant statements that needs to be sourced. I looked at the sources already used in the article and found that they cover the dispute in detail and, furthermore, contradict the statement; the issue was not, that the band had not been given permission to use the image, but that Crystal Castles had (allegedly) not upheld their part of an agreement between the band and the artist. From the Torontoist page:

Brown told Torontoist that he spoke in 2006 via e-mail with Alice Glass, who was “always polite” but who provided “endless promises that were never kept.” According to Brown, he originally asked for $300 as payment for the 7″ cover, which he says the band agreed to pay. (Brown also asked for $300 for the t-shirts but, at Glass’s request, dropped the demand; more important to Brown, he says, was that the band stop making the shirts.) According to Brown, the band had his Paypal information but kept stringing him along for months and never paid; according to Apples, the band reached a happy agreement with Brown on a set amount, but Brown did not respond to repeated requests for his mailing address.

link

I edited the article to reflect this, but this edit was reverted, and the ^{[according to whom?]}-tag which had been in place since April was removed. I am going to undo the removal of the tag for now. Kaas (talk) 07:09, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

I just removed that part of the sentence. As far as I can discern from online research, it's a completely baseless claim. Thank you for adding that tag, otherwise I wouldn't have thought to fact check it. SomeEnlightenedNarcissist (talk) 20:05, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Whitewashing

This article has clearly been whitewashed by current band representation to diminish Alice Glass' role in the band's history. I find this deeply problematic considering she left the band amongst allegations of psychological abuse and mistreatment, and some well-publicized feuding between Ethan Kath and herself. As I suspect a PR agency is responsible for maintaining these edits, I am going to hold off on editing anything until some consensus can be built here to avoid an edit war, but I'd like to gather some notes:

Alice Glass is apparently a credited co-writer on the great majority of the songs on the band's most well-known albums.
She is on record saying she was a co-writer for much of the work and was a founding member of the band. [16]
Mr. Kath is on record denying she had a significant writing role, despite her credits on the recordings.
The article characterizes the band as a solo project of Mr. Kath's which Ms. Glass joined at a later date. This obscures the fact that the only releases prior to her involvement are two obscure singles which never saw a formal release, and that the band did not achieve popularity until after she was a prominent band member, both as vocalist and credited writer.
The three albums on which Ms.Glass was credited for central creative roles all have numerous cited accolades on their respective pages, while the one album released without her involvement has none.
Currently, the first sentence of the article describes it as Ethan Kath's band, and Alice Glass is not mentioned until halfway through the second paragraph.

I think it's very had to make an argument that this is an Ethan Kath band, which Alice Glass only incidentally was a member of. Regardless of who started the band or remains in it today, she deserves credit for the creative input on what is thus-far the band's most accoladed work. I very much do not want to see Wikipedia being made an accomplice in the erasure of someone's earned artistic legacy. Walkersam (talk) 04:17, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Additionally, I've come across an early interview with Ethan Kath, discussing the formative period of the band.[17] He repeatedly uses the word 'we', apparently referring to Alice Glass and himself, retelling naming the band as a joint decision, and even says Ms. Glass decided upon his stage name. Clearly this contradicts the article's claim that the band was "formed in 2003 in Toronto, Ontario by songwriter/producer Ethan Kath." Walkersam (talk) 04:47, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

In the absence of any dissent, I've gone ahead and made some changes in line with my concerns above. The most substantial changes are listed below.

The cited article made no reference to digital singles "Magic Spells" or "Untrust Us" being released under the moniker Crystal Castles prior to Alice's involvement, and I can find no record of these tracks existing prior to Ms. Glass joining the band and their first LP release. I've removed this claim, and changed all reference to the band's start date from 2003 to 2006.

The cited article for the claim that Kath "recruited vocalist Alice Glass" directly contradicts this; rather it states "at 16 she formed Crystal Castles with producer Ethan Kahn (sic?)" I've changed the language to indicate a cooperative partnership in the band's early years, which is supported by several already-referenced interviews.

Alice states in an interview with Allison Wolfe (Dazed, Spring/Summer 2016 [18]) that the characterization of "Alice Practice" as a 'mic test' or accident is erroneous, though it was reported as such in earlier (secondary) sources, so I've removed such characterizations here.

I've not touched the 'Members' section except to change Ethan Kath's dates from 2003-Present to 2006-Present, but I think it needs citation. It seems to list several people who have played only on tour with the band, and typically such players are not considered band-members. Perhaps 'collaborators' would be appropriate?

I've added coverage of the broadly-reported criticism and cancellation of the band's appearance at SXSW last year. Between this, contradictory statements from Alice and Ethan surrounding her departure, dispute over the first release's cover art and a couple disputes over uncleared samples, it might make sense to create a "Controversy" section.

If there's any objection to these changes, please cite your reasoning here, thanks! Walkersam (talk) 20:45, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

Well, it seems User:178.124.202.76 has some objection, at least in part, as they've reverted my change of starting date twice now. I've requested comment and sourcing for this edit both times but have so far received no response. Walkersam (talk) 04:49, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

You're absolutely correct about how Wikipedia works — we have to go by what reliable sources say about the band, not by what anonymous people who might be gaslighting former members say. While it does appear to be true that Ethan Kath already had some incomplete tracks on his hard drive before meeting Alice Glass, to my knowledge there's no indication in any source that he had already formed a band called Crystal Castles prior to the fateful meeting. So our anonymous friend needs to put up sourcing for the changes they want to see, or go away. As this is an ongoing problem which has been happening since January — a slow motion reversion war is still a reversion war — I've placed semi-protection on the article for the time being to prevent anonymous IP editing. This can be lifted once there's evidence that the issue has been resolved or gone away, but unsourced alterations of the chronology are not appropriate. Source it properly or buzz off, 178. Bearcat (talk) 12:16, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

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[1] ttp://www.myspace.com/crystalcastles

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