Talk:Crystal Palace F.C.

Edit request

Re: History of original . To add more detail to your Crystal Palace FC Eagles club badge article. During 1973 I, Keith Payne, was the official club photographer also designing Crystal Palace "splash badges" for sewing onto track suit tops and working under Commercial Manager Tony Shaw at that time. Malcolm Allison who had just joined Crystal Palace as Team Manager was telling me that "the Glaziers" was a boring nickname and we wanted somethin more appealing like "the Eagles" eg., like the name used by Benfica Eagles of Portugal. With that I designed a "splash badge" with an Eagle sitting atop the old glaziers mofif so the history would not be lost. Allison liked the "splash badge" and it immediately became the new "Club Badge" and worn on the player's shirts. Obviously it has been modified a few times since then but it was the very first and hence the "eagles" fanfare at all matches we played. Keith Payne ex Crystal Palace Club photographer.

 Not done Edit request does not contain references to reliable sources. ---- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 03:41, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

United League

Given there has been a revert war, can we discuss this properly? I'd remove it, for 2 reasons:

• Site link provided fails WP:RS / WP:USERG
• Even if it passes, the competition itself is not notable: it seems to be a reserve league for Southern League teams. The page states:

"The United League was founded in 1896 to provide additional mid-week fixtures for teams drawn from a number of leagues." and "The League was re-formed in 1905 solely as a secondary competition for Southern League teams, although membership soon dwindled" Spike 'em (talk) 09:42, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

References

Player numbers (pre-season)

I've reverted 4-5 changes recently where editors have added/changed shirt-numbers. At present time, CP are on a pre-season tour, but have not announced which numbers players will wear during the season. There is no guarantee that players will keep the numbers assigned on tour (e.g. I noticed on a CPFC tweeted team sheet that a fringe player played in no. 20 which was used last season by Jonny Williams, who is not on the tour, but is still with the club)). The relevant section of the club website doesn't even list the new players. Last year they made a formal announcement on 24th July, until they do the same this pre-season I don't think we should change any numbers, as otherwise fails WP:VERIFY Spike 'em (talk) 13:59, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

I have just reverted 3 more changes, including one for a player who hasn't appeared for the club yet (Mandanda). Players may have a preferred number from previous clubs, but until we are told about it we can't use it. Please provide source that says Palace will use it and I will stop doing this. Spike 'em (talk) 16:16, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

I adapted this from the Ipswich Town page and would suggest adding similar here:

<!----------------------------- READ THIS NOTICE FIRST BEFORE EDITING ---------------------------------- – Do NOT add new players before their signing is officially announced by the club through the Crystal Palace F.C. website, including medical and signing the contract. – Do NOT remove players before their exit is officially announced by the club. – Do NOT add or change squad numbers until it is official on the Crystal Palace F.C. website. – Only add numberless players that are new signings or youth players who have become part of the first team. – Pre-season numbers can be added temporarily with A REFERENCE. – This is Wikipedia, not a football gazette. Anything unconfirmed and unsourced will be removed on sight. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> or a shorter version on Arsenal page: <!-- Any changes not listed on http://www.arsenal.com/first-team/players will be removed All edits must meet Wikipedia's verifiability policy--> Spike 'em (talk) 19:19, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

On related point, should video on club website count as a source? Have changed captaincy based on Pardew saying so on a club video, so please feel free to revert if this is not reliable enough! Spike 'em (talk) 17:38, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

Could people also stop changing Townsend and Benteke's numbers (though this is probably pointless as you'll never look here) Spike 'em (talk) 15:12, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

References

Ground / club location

I've just started discussion on ground page : Where is ground located? Spike 'em (talk) 14:20, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

Date of foundation, edit-warring restarted

There is currently a discussion at WP:FOOTY about the club claims to be founded in 1861, please discuss further there before changing the foundation date on the article. Spike 'em (talk) 10:36, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

discussion is at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Football/Archive_131#Crystal_Palace_F.C. Spike 'em (talk) 19:51, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

@Stephen70: your edits are on the verge on edit-warring and they are introducing the incorrect foundation date. Please see the discussion linked above and discuss before making any further changes. The change in date has not been recognised by any reliable secondary sources, we can't just take the club's word for it Spike 'em (talk) 20:23, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

You are saying it is "incorrect". Some of use claim it to be correct. But unfortunately you do not like our sources as all we have is "primary", "OR", SYNTH", "unreliable" etc in your definition. And your edits are on the verge of CANVAS, as you had "the intention of influencing the outcome" of your edit war. Ludost Mlačani (talk) 15:04, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

Please discuss this at WT:FOOTY Spike 'em (talk) 15:21, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

Why? Again you are trying to influence the outcome with recruiting editors that are on "your side". And the previous debate was archived with no concensus anyway. It is about this club and I will discuss it here. Actually I have nothing to discuss as the things stand now, so just ping me when you will have genuine interest in improving Crystal Palace FC article in encyclopedic way. Until then avoid using terms as correct and incorrect in your edit wars, that was my point. Ludost Mlačani (talk) 15:36, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

Because that page has a wider participation, and the discussion was started there first. If you can provide any sources, that aren't the club itself, that say the present-day club was founded in 1861 then I will discuss it here or there. Spike 'em (talk) 16:51, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

We seem to be adding miss-information again, it was known as Crystal Palace Club that played cricket that decided to start playing football in the winter of 1861, amateur football wasn't founded then, they started playing then, it's an origin date, not a founded date. I strongly suggest you adjust what you have written before I decide to go and remove it all. Govvy (talk) 16:18, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

There seems to be a chunk of miss-information on the article, it wasn't founded as a Cricket club, it was just simple called Crystal Palace Club at the beginning. Govvy (talk) 16:27, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

The "original" club has been at Crystal Palace F.C. (1861) for 10 years so you'd need to get consensus to change the formation date. Spike 'em (talk) 16:59, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

It's not my fault, but Ian King wrote the history and even on the official website, the founding is first noted as "Crystal Palace Club", it was never founded as "Crystal Palace Cricket Club" That's false information and completely wrong. Following that by football being established in 1861, it's straight forward simple facts, the club had an earlier found date, origins of the football, established date, I really don't understand why people are messing around over this and providing miss-information. Govvy (talk) 17:20, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Given the club is raising this again: WP relies on reliable secondary sources for verification. This does not include the club, which is not neutral in this regard. Despite what has been said in edit summary, I have not seen any news reports that the FA nor the PL have endorsed the club's claims. Spike 'em (talk) 21:34, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

Many editors (either sock or meat puppets?) state that the FA must have ratified the 1861 formation date for the club to change the crest: if this is the case then it should be simple to find a report of such ratification. We need reporting of this in reliable sources, independent of the club. Perhaps you should all read WP:V and WP:RS before you accuse others of having an agenda. If you can provide these sources, then I will help make the changes necessary to this and the 1861 article. Spike 'em (talk) 13:15, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

and it continues, based on a third-hand information that the club believes the FA accepts the date: 1861The Trust asked about the recent confirmation of the historical development information of the Club and changes to badges etc. Although some evidence for this date existed it did not seem it was universally accepted. The Club were convinced of the validity of the date and the Club historian supported the position. Changes to badges etc. had to go through certain FA procedures and the new badge had done this, so the Club indicated there was FA acceptance of their position. There is no way that minutes of a meeting with the club which represents the club's view of the FA's position is a reliable / independent source. Spike 'em (talk) 15:44, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

The alleged foundation date of 1861 appears to be based on spurious wishful assumptions by the club "historian". There is absolutely no concrete evidence whatsover to support any claimed links between the current club and the original Crystal Palace club. Conversely reliable independent football historians have cited concrete facts to show that there was no link between the two at all. This section should be cleared marked to show that it is lacking any reliable corroboration and should be treated as hearsay unless sufficient proof is provided. 81.174.227.153 (talk) 22:21, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 August 2020

In the Statistics and records section of this page Change X ... "They are also the only club ever to be relegated from the Premier League even though they finished fourth from bottom, as it had been decided that at the end of the 1994–95 season, the bottom four clubs would be relegated in order to accommodate the league being reduced from 22 to 20 clubs for the 1995–96 season; " ...to Y see wording below They are also the only club ever to be relegated from the Premier League even though they finished fourth from bottom, as it had been decided that at the end of the 1994–95 season, the bottom four clubs would be relegated in order to accommodate the league being reduced from 22 to 20 clubs for the 1995–96 season; Chelsea were also relegated from after finishing 4th from bottom in 1988 (18th in a 21 team division) although ultimately Chelsea's relegation was confirmed via the play-off system. Camberwellse5 (talk) 15:25, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. HeartGlow ^(talk) 04:50, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 August 2020

Under History > Into the Football League (1920-58), is the sentence “This achievement meant they joined Preston North End, Small Heath, Liverpool and Bury as the only clubs to win a championship in their first season as a league club.“

Suggest the addition of “, a feat since only matched by Peterborough United in 1960-1” 86.159.109.181 (talk) 12:31, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (Say hi!) 13:09, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Ownership

I have rewritten the paragraph on the current ownership of the club, which wasn't cited. It specified the ownership split post-takeover as written the accounts but it was not cited.

I am not aware of any useful sources as to the ownership of the club, although it is generally presumed to be owned by Parish, Harris and Blitzer in equal measures. This may have previously been true but it is not disclosed in the accounts or on Companies House. I am therefore not aware of any sources that aren't primary (i.e. from the club or Parish himself). I am not even aware of any primary sources that are recent and the clearest one I can find is the forum post cited, from Jan 2017.

It may be reasonable to remove the sentences on the forum post and replace it with a line about the general presumption as to the ownership. However I still think it is notable enough as a citation.

I have replaced the list of owners in the box at the top of the page with "Undisclosed" as the ownership is certainly undisclosed officially. I do not believe we should accept unverified primary sources as to the ownership since there is an obvious potential bias in Parish's statements regarding ownership. I could not find the evidence of ownership on the page cited, which again was the official CPFC website so should not be used anyway.

I think this is important - given the uncertainty over the ownership, it is very likely that people will take what is written on Wikipedia as generally accepted fact. The reality is that it is clearly (intentionally) difficult to determine who really owns Palace and to what degree.

81.111.45.250 (talk) 12:24, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Cheerleaders

Should the Crystals cheerleaders be mentioned in this article?DeathTrain (talk) 21:39, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

New official logo with modified year of foundation announced by the club (June 2022)

The club announced a new official logo on their website on 18 June 2022, here. The only difference from the previous logo, is that the foundation year is now displayed as '1861'.

Also, they are already using the new logo on various other places within their website, and on their social media pages. An example being on their official Facebook page, here. Craig Andrew1 (talk) 23:26, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

The Official CPFC Website

We need to stop referring to the official website. It is a disgrace. Nothing is updated properly! For example thete is a player still listed in the under 21 squad who left months ago!! I think it was Lewis Brown who joined Bristol Rovers. Also nationalities are wrong and playing positions are incorrect. Marcus Hill in the under 18's is a goalkeeper not a midfielder!! It is a disgrace. Nothing is updated properly!!! Also I think we should leave the players in the under 21 squad listed ( but correctly listed!! not as the website with its errors!!), unless the player becomes over-age to the Under 21's and part of the first team set up or leaves the club. Don Eadier (talk) 21:52, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

It is Lewis Gordon that is listed on the Under 21 page that left the club months ago!!!! Apologies got the name wrong!! Similar to Lewis-Brown who is still i believe at the club Don Eadier (talk) 22:07, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

As long as there are reliable sources that support your claims - Merko (talk) 22:27, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

I agree about the website being dreadful. I never understand how a young player is suddenly added to the first team squad when he only warmed the bench for a league cup game. Nascimento did not even warm any bench and his name appeared a couple of months ago!! I think it was only because he appeared in a friendly against the Brazilian team in December!!! I think players should only be added if they are part of the 25 man squad OR if they are under 21, they should only be those players we have signed ( Olise, Ferguson and Ebiowei) that have not come through our youth system. The development players stay there until they are old enough Catford Massive (talk) 10:47, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

@Catford Massive You should back your claims with reliable sources. Merko (talk) 10:57, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

I am getting a bit sick of your replies. So the website is a reliable source is it???? Lewis Gordon is listed on the Under 2q squad page and left last autumn after a trial. He joined Bristol Rovers permanently. So our website is not exactly a reliable source is it??? It is not the first time that has happened. Jake Giddings was listed a full year after he left the club. The website is totally unreliable. Nationalities are incorrect. Why don't you do your homework. As Don Eadier said on here, the under 18's Gibbard was called up to the Ireland under 18 squad which the website reported, but still has not changed his nationality from England!!!! Catford Massive (talk) 11:30, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

@Catford Massive "left last autumn after a trial" Need a source on this.

"He joined Bristol Rovers permanently." Who says? How would people reading the page know if it's true or if you're making it up if you do not back it with a source?

"Jake Giddings was listed a full year after he left the club" Source it.

"Nationalities are incorrect." You need to source it.

Please read Wikipedia's verifiability policy. Merko (talk) 11:57, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Lewis Gordon is listed in the Bristol Rovers squad ( Shirt no 3). I am not bothering to reply to you or get involved with any more debate with you. You are just saying the same robotic replies saying the same thing over and over. I am not wasting my time trying to explain anything to you Catford Massive (talk) 12:04, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

"Lewis Gordon is listed in the Bristol Rovers squad ( Shirt no 3)." Listed where? How do I know you're not just making it up? The burden of proof is on you. Merko (talk) 12:05, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Two eagles

Greetings, all. The information on how the club got its current nickname, The Eagles, is offered in duplicate: once in the section "Bouncing between the divisions (1973–1984)" and one more time in "Colours and crest." Surely, it should be consolidated in a single part of the article. I won't edit to that effect, leaving the effort to those more familiar with the club's affairs. -The Gnome (talk) 19:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)