Talk:Daron Acemoglu

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Summary of work[edit]

Can someone with a clue please put in a section about the research he is famous for and what its implications are? I am an MIT alumnus who would love to know more about this guy but don't have the background to read the original papers.

Turkish-American??[edit]

He is Armenian-American, not Turkish-American.
No, he is Turkish-American: http://econ-www.mit.edu/faculty/acemoglu/cv —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.245.101.196 (talk) 13:02, 18 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
He is clearly Armenian in heritage. Here is a neutral source that claims this http://www.economicprincipals.com/issues/05.04.24.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kkhach (talk • contribs) 09:13, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright[edit]

Acemoglu, the only child of a middle-class Armenian couple, grew up in Istanbul, Turkey during a tumultuous period of economic crises and political unrest, when hyperinflation sapped spending power; rural poor streamed into cities, only to find squalor and more poverty; and terrorist attacks frequently rocked the nation, leading to the military coup of 1980. He often wondered why Turkey's development lagged that of the United States and other industrialized nations. Some two decades later, as an economist and professor at MIT, he came up with an answer.

removed piece (above) was lifted from here: [1]

compare:

Daron Acemoglu grew up in Turkey during a tumultuous period of economic crises and political unrest, when hyperinflation sapped spending power; rural poor streamed into cities, only to find squalor and more poverty; and terrorist attacks frequently rocked the nation, leading to the military coup of 1980.

Living through these times, Acemoglu, the only child of a middle-class couple, said he often wondered why Turkey's development lagged that of the United States and other industrialized nations. Some two decades later, as an economist and professor at MIT, he came up with an answer.

--Calm 14:26, 13 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

if it was not added by Robert Gavin from Boston Globe(which i believe is not the case) the above parargraph which i had removed (however was re-added since) constitutes a violation of wikipedia's policies.--Calm 16:24, 13 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Publications[edit]

I know this ma and he is not econometrican! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.157.238.46 (talk) 19:17, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

can someone clean up the publications, there are far too many. not every publication is a breakthrough --Dirknachbar 20:15, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Those quotes of his PhD reviewers make me want to have the details to his PhD thesis. 202.89.155.188 07:15, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Edit to infobox[edit]

Per MOS Infoboxes, the purpose of an infobox is "to summarize key facts about the article in which it appears". Not explicitly stated here, but well understood in practice is the notion that material in an infobox is deliberately redundant; any item in an infobox should be found, almost always with supporting references, in the main text of the article.

The infobox for an economist mirrors that purpose, but is more explicit: "Entries in influences, opposed, influenced, and contributions should be explained in the main text of one of the articles. Those that are not mentioned in the main text may be deleted."

Based upon these policy reasons, I've removed Christopher Pissarides.--SPhilbrickT 14:08, 10 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

New institutional economics[edit]

This article Daron Acemoğlu is part of the series New institutional economics and this description is also used as headline for the box with the data about Acemoğlu (born, nationality etc.). But in the text this economic school is not mentioned once, not even Institutional economics (which some people interpret as a more generic term).

Any idea how this could be added/changed? 46.115.84.80 (talk) 13:50, 27 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Introduction rules[edit]

WP:OPENPARA Quote:" 3. Context (location or nationality); 1.In most modern-day cases this will mean the country of which the person is a citizen, national or permanent resident, or if notable mainly for past events, the country where the person was a citizen, national or permanent resident when the person became notable. 2.Ethnicity or sexuality should not generally be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability. Similarly, previous nationalities or the country of birth should not be mentioned in the opening sentence unless they are relevant to the subject's notability. "Unquote. --176.239.115.245 (talk) 17:53, 12 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 17 August 2017[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. (non-admin closure) Steel1943 (talk) 15:58, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Daron Acemoğlu → Daron Acemoglu – WP:COMMONNAME Երևանցի talk 13:16, 17 August 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. DrStrauss talk 11:55, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In English, the g in his last name is more commonly spelled without the breve. Though he was born in Turkey, he is an American and most American sources, including the MIT[2] Google Scholars[3] Amazon[4] The Economist[5] use Acemoglu.--Երևանցի talk 13:16, 17 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose not the case, English uses ğ for Turkish names, as does en.wp for all Turkish bios. If however the BLP is no primarily an American now, as Martina Navratilova, then that's different. Is this certain? In ictu oculi (talk) 13:45, 17 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well, he is an American citizen and is based in the US. Does not disuse of ğ by major sources count? --Երևանցի talk 16:00, 17 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
He's definitely not a dual citizen per his CV linked above? (Incidentally I don't know why you are claiming that sources with give Turkish spellings for other Turkish names don't do it for this BLP - see The Role of the State in Investor-State Arbitration 2014 Page 135 "An influential regression analysis by economist Daron Acemoğlu and colleagues " etc. but that's not relevant, the issue is is the subject now American or still Turkish?) In ictu oculi (talk) 20:51, 17 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Daron Acemoğlu speaking at Harvard Apr 14, 2015 @Yerevantsi: how do you explain this? Or how do you explain the subject's Twitter. Maybe he doesn't want to have his name Americanized? In ictu oculi (talk) 20:56, 17 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
meetup.com is not an RS. The Harvard website spells it Acemoglu [6] It is not a verified account. --Երևանցի talk 21:01, 17 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Subject's Twitter isn't verified? In what sense? In ictu oculi (talk) 21:22, 17 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
In the sense that it does not have a check mark next to its name (e.g., see Trump's account and the blue check mark [7]) We cannot know for sure if it is his own Twitter account or not. --Երևանցի talk 21:34, 17 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
So it's someone masquerading as him and answering questions in English and Turkish about his lectures? In ictu oculi (talk) 07:42, 18 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It is not a verified account. The rest is not up to me to comment. --Երևանցի talk 19:01, 18 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Shall I post on his Twitter and ask him; there is an editor here on en.wp who thinks you are not the real Daron Acemoğlu but an imposter? In ictu oculi (talk) 20:38, 18 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You do not seem to understand what being verified (and lack thereof) means. Good to know. --Երևանցի talk 10:20, 19 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
As regards Twitter accounts no I don't. Please explain, is it an imposter or not? In ictu oculi (talk) 13:10, 19 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I checked a few of Acemoglu's published papers and he spells it without the breve there. Policy also advises that we "generally [prefer] to use the name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject in English-language reliable sources." I support the move. Malinaccier (talk) 13:41, 18 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Malinaccier: would you care to give us an example please, because the MOS of academic papers usually depends on the journal rather than the authors in the journal. Can you show a journal which gives full French/Spanish/Turkish/Croat names for other economists, but Americanizes Acemoğlu? Are these journals reliable for spelling of names or is it a case "some academic journals and the publishers don't use full character sets for any of the authors" ... so please give an example, thanks. In ictu oculi (talk) 20:36, 18 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Some of these may be probably gated for you, but AER, Working paper 1, Working paper 2, Working paper 4, JPE. The working papers are from his MIT hosted website and the other two papers are from top five journals--reliable sources. In any case, Wikipedia policy is clear that we use the name that is used to refer to the subject in English reliable sources. Outside of his academic publications there is this Economist article that also has the English version. If you want to see a site that has variation in including accent marks, see Acemoglu's profile at Hoover and Dikötter's profile at Hoover. Malinaccier (talk) 21:41, 18 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The ones I could access appear to confirm what I said above, that these are simply sites/sources without full font sets, so do not qualify as WP:RS for full font sets. The argument that non-full font set sources don't show full fonts would strip every bio title on en.wp In ictu oculi (talk) 13:09, 19 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
See the Hoover Institution links as well as The Economist link. These are clear cases where accent marks are included for some names and not others. Malinaccier (talk) 20:08, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support per WP:COMMONNAME. This one's pretty simple actually. Étienne Dolet (talk) 17:27, 19 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Should we address the elephant in the room? In ictu oculi (talk) 14:25, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in this particular case, per the subject's own clear preference as evidenced in his own published works in English to date. We do not remove diacritics from names that can be sourced as properly including them, with the sole exception of subjects who choose to consistently drop the diacritic(s) themselves in their own English-language materials (e.g. Stana Katic, Tony Gonzalez). This appears to apply to this subject. WP:COMMONNAME does not apply to style matters, which are controlled by WP:MOS. COMMONNAME is not a style policy. It is the policy that tells us to use "Daron Acemoglu" (styled one way or the other), versus some other name that is uncommon or which cannot be sourced, such as Kamer Acemoğlu or K. D. Acemoğlu or Daron McGillicuddy. The citizenship arguments are also a red herring.

    This is actually a WP:ABOUTSELF policy matter, same as almost all of these diacritics RMs when it comes to BLPs. I'm very alert for jingoistic attempts to strip diacritics from personal names that should have them (we've had intense problems in this regard, including various blocks and topic bans being issued, and even MfD shutting down anti-diacritics, "canvassing farm" pseudo-wikiprojects twice), but this clearly isn't such a case. He may well use the Turkish spelling in private life, but in his public life he drops the diacritic, and it's not WP's job to tell him he's wrong about his own name. (There are also sources, like many American newspapers, that are reliable for general facts about a subject but, on the other hand, demonstrably unreliable for typographic and linguistic matters. It often is WP's job to effectively tell our readers these sources are wrong on that point, usually by simply ignoring those publications' own house style and using the diacritics properly ourselves, when the subject also does so. But this isn't the situation here.)
     — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  22:19, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"per the subject's own clear preference" - I said above that academic journals have their own MOS which authors have to bend to. It seems no one registered or responded to this comment, so I'm saying it again. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:12, 25 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - the list of places using a regular Latin 'g' provided appears quite impressive, while after 2 weeks of discussion we don't have anything of substance to counter that. I think we should switch to Acemoglu and leave it unless we actually do see a stated preference by Daron himself. RaffiKojian (talk) 02:56, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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GA Review[edit]

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Daron Acemoglu/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: MX (talk · contribs) 01:06, 2 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Review[edit]

 Doing... Hello. I'll be reviewing this article. My initial observation is that this article is ripe for promotion. I'll go through each section and post here if there are any issues. I'll also be checking the sources to see if they are reliable. If possible, I'll go into them to see if the text is supported correctly. Stay put and thanks for waiting! MX (✉ • ✎) 01:06, 2 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Part 1[edit]

Overall comments: This is a great article as it stands. My biggest concern from Part 1 of the review is not the grammatical correction. Rather, it is the overuse of quotes, especially in the Views section. Per WP:QUOTE, editors are generally encouraged to write stuff in their own words. I would like to see a reduction of quotes before this review passes. Below are my concerns for Part 1; stay put for Part 2 (which will include source review, copyright analysis, etc.) MX (✉ • ✎) 20:29, 4 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Life[edit]

  • was born in Istanbul, Turkey to Armenian parents – Please add DOB with a source too, assuming none of the sources citing this sentence already have the DOB somewhere. The DOB in the infobox is technically unsourced as it stands.
 Done----Երևանցի talk 21:43, 5 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • a well-known commercial lawyer and lecturer – "well-known" is a WP:WEASEL word. Please revise.
 Done----Երևանցի talk 21:43, 5 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
"The subject of the red link may be covered on another edition of Wikipedia. If such an article meets the English-language Wikipedia criteria and you are able to translate, then follow the procedures at Wikipedia:Translation; if not, {{underline}use a link to the article in the other edition of Wikipedia instead of or next to a red link}}. Such links can be made manually or by using the interlanguage link template [[{{{1}}}]] []."
  • a professor of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science at MIT – spell out MIT's name and link it. Use "MIT" moving forward.
 Done----Երևանցի talk 21:43, 5 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Academic career[edit]

  • Acemoglu was lecturer in economics at the London School of Economics (LSE) – Use LSE only, since you already used it in the previous section.
 Done----Երևանցի talk 09:15, 6 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • He began lecturing at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) in 1993 – Use MIT only, per previous comments.
 Done----Երևանցի talk 09:15, 6 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Acemoglu was lecturer in economics – "was a lecturer"
 Done----Երևանցի talk 09:15, 6 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • In 2014 he made $841,380 ... – fix amount to US$841,380 per MOS:CURRENCY.
 Done----Երևանցի talk 09:15, 6 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • editor of Econometrica, an influential academic journal published – remove "influential" per WP:WEASEL. You can rephrase it or remove it.
 Done----Երևանցի talk 09:15, 6 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • He has made significant contribution to the labor economics field – Does the source only assert or explain them? "Significant" may be on the eyes of the beholder, and pushing for WP:WEASEL. Also, please add an "s": "He has made significant contributions ..."
 Done----Երևանցի talk 10:03, 12 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Publications[edit]

  • argued that the its substantive contribution is the theoretical fusion – Please fix this sentence.
 Done----Երևանցի talk 08:24, 10 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • ideas of Barry Weingast and Douglass North which argued that – "... North, who argued that..."
 Done----Երևանցի talk 08:24, 10 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Edward Glaeser described it "enormously significant" – ... "described it as 'enormously significant' ..."
It's not a quote within a quote.----Երևանցի talk 08:24, 10 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • In his best known book, Why Nations Fail (2012) – How do we know it is the best-known book? Was it the best-selling one?
 Done----Երևանցի talk 10:04, 12 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Done----Երևանցի talk 08:24, 10 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Done----Երևանցի talk 08:24, 10 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Views[edit]

  • Paul Abrams noted that Why Nations Fail has been - remove link from Why Nations Fail per WP:OVERLINK. Keep an eye on other articles you linked multiple times (excluding lead) in case I missed more.
 Done----Երևանցի talk 10:14, 12 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Acemoglu's and Robinson's long-time collaborator Simon Johnson suggests – Ditto with Johnson.
 Done----Երևանցի talk 10:14, 12 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • for the survival of the US as we know it. – Sounds uneyclopedic. Please rephrase.
 Done----Երևանցի talk 10:14, 12 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • General comments: I personally think there is an over-use of quotes here and in the rest of the View sections, per our MOS:QUOTE policy. Please paraphrase most of them and only keep what you think might be lost in paraphrasing. Long quotations are generally not encouraged. I will need to go back once you've done this to check for grammar corrections since I decided to skip this part altogether until the issue is resolved.
 Doing...----Երևանցի talk 10:14, 12 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Recognition[edit]

  • According to data collected by IDEAS/RePEc – Why not spell out to "Research Papers in Economics"?

 Done----Երևանցի talk 18:05, 12 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • and his long-time collaborator James A. Robinson as – Remove link from Robinson per WP:OVERLINK.

 Done----Երևանցի talk 18:05, 12 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Awards[edit]

  • [Citaiton needed] – There is a [Citaiton needed] tag I added.
 Done----Երևանցի talk 18:10, 12 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Yerevantsi: Hello. Will you be able to get thorough the remaining points in the next 2-3 days? MX (✉ • ✎) 19:14, 20 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'll try to complete it by tomorrow. ----Երևանցի talk 22:16, 21 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@MX: I've addressed most of the issues. Could you please respond to them. I won't be active for another 3 days. ----Երևանցի talk 19:28, 24 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Yerevantsi: Quotes look good now. We can address the infobox section when you're back. Enjoy your weekend. MX (✉ • ✎) 19:44, 24 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Yerevantsi: Hi, I hope you had a great weekend. Let's get the infobox section addressed before the end of the week. Cheers, MX (✉ • ✎) 19:15, 27 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Part 2[edit]

Copyright checkup[edit]

  • Copyright checkup – There are high similarities between the sources and the text, but these matches are best of the heavy dependence on quotes, per Earwig's Copyvio Detector. This will be addressed independently in Part 1.

Infobox[edit]

  • Infobox – Overall this is a great part of the article. Useful information is found that is easy for readers to find. Per WP:INFOBOXCITE, however, we highly advise editors to remove citations from the infobox and cite the information elsewhere in the article. Would you be able to do that? This prevents clogging sources, especially as the infobox grows.
 Done----Երևանցի talk 20:09, 27 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Needing sources[edit]

  • He has authored hundreds of papers, – Maybe I missed it somewhere, but is the "hundreds" mentioned somewhere else in the article with an appropriate source?
 Done I mentioned it in the "Academic career" section with a reference.----Երևանցի talk 11:06, 23 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Source-and-text integrity – Checked multiple sources and found no issue here. Assuming good faith for the rest of the sources I did not check and for foreign-language ones too.

Conclusion[edit]

Everything was addressed! Article passes. MX (✉ • ✎) 20:33, 27 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Poor GA[edit]

How is this a GA? It is not really an article about Daron Acemoglu, more like "Daron Acemoglu's political views." Three-quarters of it is about his personal political views and less than one-quarter is about his actual career and life's work. He has published five books and hundreds of journal articles, yet most of this content is from random news articles and interviews. Looking at the GA criteria, it seems to fail at least numbers three and four. Can I challenge this listing? Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 02:23, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

He should also be fluent in French[edit]

Daron is a graduate of Galatasaray High School, which teaches French and has almost all of subjects given in French. I believe he also co-authored a book in French titled "Introduction à l'économie". So I ask the question, should we also add "French" to languages that he can speak fluently in "Life" section?Emre Dokur (talk) 16:45, 12 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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