Talk:Death and funeral of Bhumibol Adulyadej

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A fact from Death and funeral of Bhumibol Adulyadej appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 28 November 2016 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that since the death of King Bhumibol Adulyadej, ultra-royalists in Thailand have criticized and harassed those who did not wear mourning black?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2016/November. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Death and funeral of Bhumibol Adulyadej.

Wikipedia

Scope[edit]

Shouldn't the article scope be adjusted to include issues related to the royal succession? --Paul_012 (talk) 04:30, 14 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 23 October 2016[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Support for move does not appear strong enough for consensus (non-admin closure) — Andy W. (talk) 17:45, 5 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Death and funeral of Bhumibol Adulyadej → Death and state funeral of Bhumibol Adulyadej – The Thai king is certainly going to receive a state funeral. Per Death and state funeral of Ronald Reagan and quite a number of other articles, I cannot see any reason as to why this article's title should not acknowledge his honour of a state funeral. --Nevé –selbert 23:15, 23 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nomination and per main title headers of articles within Category:State funerals. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 03:38, 24 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I'm not quite sure how applicable the term state funeral is in Thailand. (Royal funerals are held for members of the royal family, but I don't know if they're properly referred to as state funerals.) That said, I still think the article should be renamed and expanded to include other wider aspects related to the king's passing, including the royal succession as mentioned above. Reactions to the death of Bhumibol Adulyadej should also be trimmed and merged here. --Paul_012 (talk) 11:40, 24 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Per WP:CONCISE, and the fact that "state funeral" is not necessarily the correct term for this (per Paul012's comment above). Death and funeral of Margaret Thatcher and many of the entries in the Category:State funerals mentinoed above, aren't named this way, so there isn't particularly any WP:CONSISTENCY that we need to follow. In fact I think it would be better to remove "state" from most such articles in that category. — Amakuru (talk) 14:25, 1 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - I personally don't see how it is necessary to add "state" to the name. Amakuru brings up a good point about WP:CONSISTENCY. The Ninja5 Empire (Talk) 07:14, 3 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move to main entry[edit]

I think this should be covered in the article on Bhumibol Adulyadej. What is the logic behind a separate article? Thanx, Seligne (talk) 17:50, 8 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

BST?[edit]

In the section "Timeline of events leading up to the national cremation service and afterwards" the time is given as ..am/..pm BST. Time in Thailand is ICT (Indochine time, UTC+07:00), see infobox of Thailand. BST can be "Burma Standard Time" or "Bangladesh Standard Time" (and even "British Summer Time"). Why is BST used in the timeline? --FredTC (talk) 14:40, 9 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging JMRAMOS0109, who made the additions. --Paul_012 (talk) 09:05, 12 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Timeline[edit]

The times of events on October 26 have been changed several times. The source of those times is not given. At the Thai WP the times that are given for October 26 are unchanged with 7am as first event (I cannot read the Thai text, but the times are in western numbers). At http://www.bangkok.go.th/main/index.php there is a website given (on the first slide of a slide show) for info about the King. This is http://www.kingrama9.net/ and at this page on that site there is detailed info about the cremation, with the same timeline as on the Thai WP. So, if the source can be considered reliable, the times should be changed. --FredTC (talk) 08:51, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Many of the events in the timeline have already passed, particularly the preparations. Kortoso (talk) 17:54, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Disposition of the body between death and cremation[edit]

The article does not say what was done with the king's body, after its removal to the Grand Palace and bathing shortly after death. It seems to reappear in the projected timeline when the funeral procession leaves from the Dusit Maha Phasat Throne Hall on its way to the crematorium, though this is not made explicit. I understand this hall is part of the Grand Palace complex. But the body must surely be in a freezer somewhere in the interim, given the very long time between death and cremation? If anyone has any information, please add it to the article. If long periods between death and cremation are a Thai tradition, what would have been done in the days before easy refrigeration? Beorhtwulf (talk) 00:49, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've added a bit. Like modern lyings-in-state, the body would of course be embalmed. Before then, lots and lots of incense was used, as the bodies were pretty much allowed to decompose before cremation. But such detail would probably need to be contained in a separate overview article about royal funerals, which is still missing. --Paul_012 (talk) 02:40, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That's excellent, thanks for the additions. Beorhtwulf (talk) 11:49, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Some info and also a question[edit]

The body is embalmed using formaldehyde as is mentioned by Dr Sanjai Sangvichien in an Bangkok Post article.

Now the king's body is in a coffin. But I see no information about taking the body out the coffin and into the royal urn. More info was published here, but only the royal urn is mentioned. So the coffin does not seem to be a part of the ceremonies. Thai royal funeral also does not mention this yet. --FredTC (talk) 11:33, 22 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've added a bit to Thai royal funeral#Prior to cremation. It's not a widely advertised fact, but the procession is largely honorific, without literally carrying the royal body. --Paul_012 (talk) 17:00, 22 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

More questions: (1) Does this mean that the king's body (lying in a coffin) will already be inside the Royal Crematorium - having been moved there prior to today's public ceremonies - by the time the Royal Urn will ceremonially be moved into the Royal Crematorium by soldiers and monks? Do we know when this is done? (2) Does anyone know how the actual cremation is done? Is there a furnace installed inside the Royal Crematorium, or is it a wooden pyre? Please forgive my ignorant questions, but it is very difficult to tell for me which parts of a Thai royal funeral are purely ceremonial and which are not. Regards PeterCollins (talk) 17:20, 26 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

(1) Yes. Apparently this took place around 19:00–20:00 Wednesday night (25 Oct), but was not officially announced nor reported on. (2) A furnace is installed inside the royal crematorium. Burning in the pyre was last done in 1996 during the funeral of Princess Mother Srinagarindra. --Paul_012 (talk) 13:37, 27 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a photo of the furnace for the sister of the king. FredTC (talk) 13:57, 27 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much, both! PeterCollins (talk) 19:05, 27 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]