Talk:Death of Otto Zehm

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Untitled[edit]

In about July 2006, the Spokesman-Review newspaper reported that a "source" had indicated that the FBI investigation of police conduct in the March 2008 death of Zehm would take approximately one year. It has now been 29 months since Zehm was killed and there is no FBI report. Does anyone know of any additional information about the FBI report, the status of it, the expected completion date, any official or unofficial statements on the status of the report or its anticipated completion date, or any other information on the FBI investigation of the Zehm homicide?.

Does anyone know if Michael Worley's report commissioned by the City of Spokane in the summer of 2006 and reportedly pending completion following the completion of the FBI report is still under contract with the city of Spokane to complete the report?

Besides the one day administrative leave without pay received by a few of the seven Spokane Police officers involved in the Zehm killing, is anyone aware of any other discipline taken by the City of Spokane or the Spokane Police Department against these seven officers? 24.41.65.207 (talk) 19:43, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Rename the article?[edit]

Someone (at the afd discussion, I think) suggested renaming this article. I agree. The subject of the article is notable, but the subject of the article is not the unfortunate Otto Zehm. If that is good reasoning, what might then be an appropriate title? That's not easy. It must include the word Spokane, I think. It must probably not include the word scandal. The word police is too limiting. A new name must answer the question: What is this article really about? Spokane civic conflict? Other suggestions? --Hordaland (talk) 13:30, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I looked around to see how other police brutality cases are named. See Category:Alleged police brutality in the United States, and Category:Victims of police brutality. The articles in these categories are all named for the *person*. Perhaps examples to the contrary can be found. Spokane civic conflict sounds unlikely to be a good search term. Take a look at List of cases of police brutality for more ideas. One such is the Robert Dziekański Taser incident. That title is perhaps too euphemistic, since he died from the 'incident.' I wonder if 'Death of X' is ever an article title. One advantage of using the person's name as the article title is that the title is guaranteed to be neutral. EdJohnston (talk) 14:24, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
EditConflict: Eugene Ejike Obiora, by the way, is a similar article which retains the name of the dead victim. (It needs some editing, but that's not the point here.) It has less emphasis on any general conflict between the population and all powers-that-be. It's a sub-article (called a fork?) of Police misconduct in Norway. --Hordaland (talk) 14:34, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Death of Otto Zehm or Otto Zehm incident or the permutations thereof, would be the most appropriate. Mentioning Spokane in the title may be too broad and not effective enough in identifying the subject at first read. Murder of Tim McLean and the discussion on the talk page is a good example of how and why to name such an article. SWik78 (talk • contribs) 16:51, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I guess I have to thank you for sending me to the McLean article. Tho I'm still feeling a bit queasy from it, the naming discussion there (and at AfD) was interesting. I don't know what's best for the Zehm article, but the story (and its implications) is very different from the McLean one. It's not just about a death from police brutality. Zehm is just one incident in an ongoing situation where people in Spokane don't trust the authorities and with good reason, as far as I can tell. One could even argue that such miserable lack of accountability in one town is the USA isn't notable. I think it is and that Otto Zehm is a small part of it. (Rambling here, no conclusion.) --Hordaland (talk) 18:58, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Problem is, it will be easier to document Otto Zehm's death in an accurate and neutral fashion than the wider pattern of misbehavior by the authorities which some people think has occurred. There is a lot more scope for varying opinions and good-faith disagreement in the latter than the former. EdJohnston (talk) 20:11, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
At articles for deletion, Jcielsbleu essentially makes the same comments I made at Articles for deletion/Otto Zehm, i.e., that the brutal death of Otto Zehm, an innocent man per all information to date, at the hands of 7 policeman, is a seminal event in the modern history of Spokane politics. Although I was initially conceded in agreeing with possibly changing the article name in some way, such as Otto Zehm Scandal, I believe that others are correct, i.e., that it should remain as is "Otto Zehm" in keeping with other article examples mentioned by others. As to deleting it as had been proposed elsewhere, I think it is clear that should not and will not happen. --24.41.65.207 (talk) 00:14, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

References[edit]

OK, I've been formatting references here, but I can't do the rest of the Spokesman-Review ones (and probably won't do the rest of the others for various reasons; blogs etc). Spokesman-Review won't let me access their site anymore! Would someone please click on any of the Spokesman-Review references to see if everyone is denied access, or just paranoid little me? (Maybe they block people who've been just too interested lately??) Thanks, --Hordaland (talk) 17:28, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am in Spokane and access the Spokesman-Review often. After accessing the site several times, the require you to register. Sometimes it is when I try to see page two of a multiple page article. The Spokesman-Review is reportedly in the midst of a major improvement of their online edition. Time will tell. In the meantime, as soon as I can figure out HOW to format references, I intend to do so. Thanks --24.41.65.207 (talk) 00:07, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for explaining S-R's policy; I was mystified.
See your own Talk page. I've written (hopefully understandable) instructions on the how to there. --Hordaland (talk) 02:49, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Shonto Pete[edit]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to mention this (if, not I apologize), but it does seem to tie in with the topic. Shonto Pete was "alledgedly" shot in the head downtown some time back now, luckily surviving, by an off-duty policeman, Jay Olsen. Unfortunately, I don't have my print info handy, but it is out there for anyone interested in looking. There was an interview with him in The Inlander (the local alt weekly) a couple weeks ago, which should be available still online. Perhaps a page on what happened to Pete which would link the Otto Zehm page in the See Also section? The topic of Spokane police oversight, etc. has been influenced by this incident as well. I'm sorry I'm not very well prepared, here, but I do think that this is relevent to the Otto Zehm mess and is worth at least taking a peek at. Just a thought.97.119.253.97 (talk) 05:06, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Specific Condition[edit]

Does anyone have a source regarding the specific developmental disability that Zehm had? I think it is relevant to the article. Asarelah (talk) 04:17, 1 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Cleanup[edit]

I'd like to cleanup and add some more information to this article. MDEVER802 (talk) 21:56, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Please do so but bear in mind the following: WP:NPOV, WP:OR, and WP:RS. Thanks.--ukexpat (talk) 15:27, 2 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Wrong facts[edit]

Two 18 year old girls did not file an erroneous report. I was scared, he put his arm in the window. Watch the atm surveillance. My whole life I was told to do what I did when you are scared for your safety, the card was still in the atm when we drove off in fear, we followed him because we were instructed to by dispatch. What the cops then proceeded to do I witnessed and I will never be the same, I will never call 911 and my niece belief to trust law enforcement dissolved. Otto zehm in no way deserved the abuse he received. But even if his mental condition made him unaware of it at the time putting your arm in a vehicle with teenage girls in a dark empty parking lot is a crime. I just think if people want to pass judgement, don’t pick and choose what works best for your take on it. Oh and listen to the whole 911 call. NOTHING stated was false. RIP Otto zehm Pumpdajamz (talk) 21:13, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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