Talk:Deck the Halls

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Citation of sources regarding dating and provenance[edit]

This article makes claims about the age of the carol, suggesting it is much older without any evidence to support these claims. It also contradicts itself. It claims it dates from the C16th yet the first publication of the music is claimed to be from a MS (not cited) by John Parry in the 1700s. The 1700s are C18th not C16th. Often many claims are made about "old" tunes or songs, but as a musician researching various aspects of early music it surprises me how popular myth can out-weigh evidence. I'm not saying these statements are necessarily incorrect - just that there should be no contradictions and that claims should be properly backed up with reference to actual MS or publications. --Barryspearce (talk) 22:44, 25 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Problem[edit]

I am absolutely sure that it's not "deck the hall" or "fa la la la la, fa la la la". Could soneone fix this? 156.34.60.112 23:42, 25 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I'm listening to a recording right now of "Deck the Hall", a version I've never previously heard; I've always heard "Halls" before. I'm really not sure how to cite it, since I don't have the CD case or anything right now. On the other hand, I can't imagine all those extra "fa-s" are correct. If they are, they should be noted, but they should be properly cited. The way the change to the "fa-s" was made, with the intro being seriously mangled, doesn't help my impression of the idea put forward. Nyttend 04:08, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am flabbergasted that somebody even questioned the "hall" vs "halls" thing. Anybody who's ever sang this song in high school or college choir has heard their conductor lament the erroneous extra s at the end of hall. The original translation from the Welsh certainly read "hall" not "halls." [1] It would have been strange for people to decorate their hallways, rather than the banquet hall. Read the book "At Home" by Bill Bryson sometime. It has an entire chapter dedicated to the hall. -50.59.88.46 (talk) 18:46, 9 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Why is this song secular? If one is so happy during Christmas, it must have to do with religion.--Orthologist 17:18, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I found the word "secular" kind of glaring too. It's not as if this song is anti-religious or something. BTW why is it a part of the Anglicanism project? Steve Dufour 13:57, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Secular doesnt mean anti-religious. it means its not of a religious nature. and its probably in an anglacanism project because it is an old english folk song that describes the archaic symbolism and practices of the anglican culture.75.32.34.72 (talk) 06:10, 9 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I changed the word to "traditional." I hope that is ok with everyone. Steve Dufour 14:00, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Because the holiday is celebrated by religious people and also by people who are not religious but celebrate it for their own reasons. You do live in the modern world, don't you? Don't live under a rock, do you? You idiot. Senjoro Nie (talk) 23:10, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The early creations as they were published used "fa" twice, it also said hall not halls as the word hall refers to an open room or more specifically a mead hall. the possibly American version from the same time has morphed to become the "popular version" without the second "fa" and hall has since become halls, interpreted as hallways instead of open room. also i have noticed that in the english folk version the word "hoar" was changed to "gay". this is likely because a wikipedian thought it was vandalism referring to a whore but to make this clear for the future, the word "hoar" is an old term meaning white haired, see hoar frost.75.32.34.72 (talk) 06:10, 9 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

literally nobody cares. stop wasting our time. Senjoro Nie (talk) 23:15, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not an English native, and therefore unsure, but isn'nt it "Toll the acient yule..." instead of "Troll"? --94.157.112.61 (talk) 17:36, 24 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, it's "troll", as an archaic varient of "trill". As far as secular goes, I agree "traditional" is a fair compromise. Decorating with evergreen boughs (or trees), singing, dressing in festive attire and lighting fires or Yule-logs are all seasonal traditions. None feature in scriptural accounts of the Nativity. One could argue that these are broadly religious, as they date back to pagan customs of pre-Christian Europe, as does the holiday, Yule, which is explicitly mentioned in the song while Christmas and Christ are not. 72.49.43.222 (talk) 00:02, 15 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Welsh Origins[edit]

This song was originally attached to a Welsh poem, Oer yw'r gwr, or "Cold is the Man". I have included the poem below. See if you can spot the similarities. Could someone with a knowledge of Welsh provide an accurate translation? On-line "translators" provide nothing but gibberish about beans and heartburn (of course).

Oer yw'r gwr sy'n methu caru,

Ffa la la la la, la la la la.

Hen fynyddoedd annwyl Cymru,

Ffa la la la la, la la la la.

Iddo ef a'u cêr gynhesaf ,

Ffa la la, la la la, la la la.

Gwyliau llawen flwydd nesaf,

Ffa la la la la, la la la la.

I'r helbulus oer yw'r biliau

Ffa la la la la, la la la la.

Sydd yn dyfod yn y Gwyliau,

Ffa la la la la, la la la la.

Gwrando bregeth mewn un pennill,

Ffa la la, la la la, la la la.

Byth na waria fwy na'th ennill

Ffa la la la la, la la la la.

Oer yw'r eira ar Eryri,

Ffa la la la la, la la la la.

Er fod gwrthban gwlanen arni,

Ffa la la la la, la la la la.

Oer yw'r bobol na ofalan',

Ffa la la, la la la, la la la.

Gwrdd a'u gilydd ar Nos Galan,

Ffa la la la la, la la la la.

Just thought I'd put my two cents' worth in. dm01 06:19, 11 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was PAGE MOVED per discussion below. -GTBacchus^(talk) 15:00, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This article used to be at Deck the Halls, but the content was cut-and-pasted to Deck the Hall without discussion. Google has about 1 million results for "deck the halls", but only 119,000 for "deck the hall". Moreover, "Deck the halls" is used in the lyrics on the page, and also in the only real reference for the article. Strad 02:15, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Support the name being Deck the Halls. It may not be a simple move however. Andrewa 09:22, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Since the song is normally known as Deck the Halls, the reason for making a Deck the Hall article in the first place is unclear. DAJF 11:45, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support - per nom. Reginmund 22:53, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I have never heard of only one hall being decked. Steve Dufour 13:54, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support per Andrewa.--Orthologist 14:28, 3 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Mannheim Steamroller[edit]

Should we put that Mannheim Steamroller released a notible instrumental version, or am I just obsessed? --69.218.57.236 (talk) 15:14, 29 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cutting "Cover versions"[edit]

I cut this section.

First, they're hardly "covers" in the usual sense. It's a folk song -- unless someone can name the original artist?

Second, this song is so commonplace and has been recorded so many times, that any list is necessarily incomplete. As for notability of any one recording, that's more in the eye of the individual editor who adds it than anything else. Some of those in the list were obscure, to say the least. But again, there are so many around that none of them are particularly notable compared to the others.

Such a section can therefore never be complete or useful. 63.249.96.218 (talk) 21:41, 28 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree there is far too much of this trivia in songs like this. Enter CambridgeBayWeather, waits for audience applause, not a sausage 08:46, 29 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Fra[edit]

"Fra la la la la, la la la la."

I have never heard of this R. Fra, really? Fra? Can we verify this is not a typo? I am enraged. Nym (talk) 09:20, 21 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Troll[edit]

Troll, in the popular version, can really be toll. --Diamondland (talk) 04:38, 21 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Highly unlikely. The english translation is highly sarcastic.--207.191.199.237 (talk) 03:50, 21 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Alleged use by Mozart[edit]

While there are several references that claim Mozart used "Nos Galan" in one of his works, I have yet to pin down the actual work and passage in which this use occurs. Some sources suggest the Violin Sonata K301, but I've looked through the score to that work pretty carefully and I don't see any quotation of the melody. At the very least, if it is quoted there, it's done extremely subtly. What's more, I've been unable to find any reference to "Nos Galan", "Deck the Hall(s)" or even "Welsh" (in the appropriate context) in any scholarly work on Mozart. Is it possible that this alleged use by Mozart is actually an urban legend, albeit one that has been widely propagated? Grover cleveland (talk) 09:33, 26 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Welsh lyrics[edit]

The image in the article is a scan of the book in question. The page of the book is visible in Google books. "llwya" is not a word in Welsh. "llwyn" is and is clearly legible on the image. However, I will not push this further. 86.185.59.92 (talk) 20:25, 7 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the page is not visible in Google books. Google searches show that the version we have here is the more common form while your form only has three hits. That is why I changed it back.

I don't know why the word is written that way in the image or why that page isn't showing in Google books, but that is the version as provided here by user:Grover cleveland. The original was not without error, but we should confirm with the editor before we change that word. It may be a typo, it may be correct. Without access to the source, the best we can do is add a note that there are alternate versions. Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:57, 7 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

We do have access to the source. The book is well out of copyright and page 189 is accessible on Google books. Link. The letter at the end of the word is clearly 'n'. 86.185.59.92 (talk) 21:49, 7 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. I'd like to see the user's comment as well. Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:04, 7 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It was a typo on my part. Thanks for spotting it. Fixed now. Grover cleveland (talk) 17:02, 6 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The Idea of This Song[edit]

Was this song based on the hymns "Christ the Lord Is Risen Today" and "Jesus Christ Is Risen Today"? It has the same rhyme pattern for every verse (aabb); every line in the song ends with "Fa la la la la la la la la" like every line in "Christ the Lord Is Risen Today" and "Jesus Christ Is Risen Today" ends with "A-A-Alle-lu-uia"; the melody for that song itself (Deck the Hall) sort of has a similar pattern to "Christ the Lord Is Risen Today" and "Jesus Christ Is Risen Today." Cbsteffen (talk) 02:36, 1 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Links in Lyrics Section[edit]

I have noticed that many of the links in the lyrics section link to the wrong meaning of the word, which is quite misleading for actually trying to understand them. Oeoi (talk) 20:22, 12 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Which ones superficially? These are the ones I could find an they all appear to be correct, but I have not clicked through to see what the land on.

If you point out which one(s) is(are) wrong, by number, and explain why, we can attempt to fix them. if I missed on, please add it below. Walter Görlitz (talk) 00:03, 15 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Sound examples have incorrect instruments[edit]

The sound example that says "Two violins, viola and Violoncello." is definitely not played by two violins, viola, and violoncello. Oeoi (talk) 20:25, 12 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"Fa la la," or "fe le le"?[edit]

I remember once hearing a youth choir (probably from a school) performing this song on TV, and the "fa la la" sequence was replaced by "fe le le" (pronounced either "FAY-leh-leh," etc., or "FEE-lee-lee"). Is this the original form? I have to believe that it was, or that it was–at least at one time–a common alternative. 64.85.231.88 (talk) 09:44, 23 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Writing credits for singles[edit]

This edit seems to imply that the actual credit on the singles were to someone named "Unknown". That's clearly not the case. If there is no writer credited, adding text does not help to clarify that. It is often the case that songs that are in the public domain are often credited as "traditional", although they often do credit the original writers. What is the case here? If we don't know, we definitely should not be making assumptions. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:25, 15 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That's a very strange way to look at it, especially bearing in mind your comment when you reverted me. However, you cannot dispute that in this instance the writer is not known, so it appears a disagreement of nomenclature. It does seem to be that matching Category:Songwriter unknown is the best solution. Do you have another solution, leaving the songwriter information blank is not an option. --Richhoncho (talk) 15:41, 15 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

But not knowing the writer and stating that the writer is "unknown" are different things. The latter violates WP:V. Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:56, 15 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Recent edits[edit]

User:Walter Görlitz, you reverted an edit to Deck the halls asking for citations regarding a differing melody and rhythm, saying it’s in the music. The only music file on the article in question is the one I have included in this post, and there is nothing to suggest any other forms of the music in common use. Please clarify your position. Thank you! XP-93 (talk) 13:18, 18 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Why are you linking this article?

I think you're missing a few images: File:Original printed version of Deck the Hall with Boughs of Holly.pdf, File:Deck the hall.png, File:Deck the Hall melody.png and File:Nos galan.png. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:42, 20 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

User:Walter Görlitz, the only one of those files which contradicts File:Deck the Hall melody.png is File:Deck the hall.png, and that refers specifically to the 1877 Pennsylvania setting; whereas the contested paragraph in the article states that the current version differs from the Welsh version in File:Deck the Hall melody.png (where in fact it does not). XP-93 (talk) 06:49, 22 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for explaining that. The actual phrase that was tagged was that "third and fourth 'Fa la la' lines … differ from those sung or played in Wales [today]".

You are correct that there is no indication of the current version, but that it's the one in Wales that needs to be referenced as we have multiple, correct "current" versions. But since the tag is at the end of the line, it's not clear if that's what is requiring a reference of the mode of the differences as the phrase goes on to describe the melody. Feel free to restore the tag if you agree. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:39, 22 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Halls?[edit]

I have this tune in 14 books of carols, and in various versions on 43 albums, tapes, and CDs covering a slightly more than 100 year span of time. In every one of them the title and first line is rendered as Deck the hall, and not "Deck the halls".

The title of the article needs to be corrected.

If someone can provide a citation verifying that the title appears somewhere as "Deck the Halls", the lede should be rewritten to say "Deck the Hall (occasionally seen corrupted as 'Deck the Halls') ..." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.95.43.253 (talk) 20:29, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There are thousands of renditions where it reads with the plural. It is, in fact the more popular version. For the record, I have a handful of copies of 'The First Nowell" , but it will never be the more popular spelling. Sorry. Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:34, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Is Wikipedia intended to be a repository of what is popular, or what is correct? 74.95.43.253 (talk) 01:22, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

False dichotomy. Wikipedia articles use the WP:COMMONNAME. That was my point. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:44, 5 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Mazzinghi’s variations[edit]

Brilliant Classics published that Mazzinghi: Andante from Sonata, Op. 30 No. 3 consists of variations on the melody before it became Deck the Halls. I haven't found any sources to confirm this, but it might be worth mentioning. Fernando Trebien (talk) 18:12, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]