This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
In the page on Delaware, Geography section, last sentance, it is written that the wedge of land went to Maryland in 1921, but in all maps the wedge is shown as a part of Delaware. Someone with correct knowledge please correct this.
The flag on the subject page is not the right color of blue -- it should be a more turquoise color, but on the blue (not green) side, somewhat like a darker sky blue. -- isis 7 Sep 2002
I've replaced the wrong-colored gif with a jpg photo of an actual Delaware flag, but I'd appreciate it if someone could get a better picture of the flag in the right colors. isis 9 Sep 2002
I was surfing today (Dec. 11th) and noticed that the information about New Castle County is incorrect because of this past November's election. I am a high school librarian, and I will be taking a class to this site later this month. I would like to allow them to edit this page. I hope that no one else does it before then. --68.82.150.34 01:02, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
History Question
According to the article Delmarva Peninsula, In 1776 the three counties of Kent, New Castle, and Sussex declared their independence from Pennsylvania and entered the United States as the State of Delaware. but this article states that In 1704 the "three lower counties" gained a separate legislature, and in 1710 a separate executive council. Does this mean that between 1710 and 1776 Deleware was part of Pennsylvania but possessed a degree of autonomy? - Nik42 00:35, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
Not exactly. Delaware believed itself to be independent during this period and acted accordingly, including sending its own representatives to the Continental Congress, but Pennsylvania never formally recognized this, citing their own claims dating back to the original royal charter for the colony. One reason for Delaware's extremely quick ratification of the US Constitution was that the Constitution guaranteed that Pennsylvania's claims to Delaware as its "three lower counties" became void by it. (Sorry, no links for all this, just info from an old Delawarean.) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.240.168.232 (talk • contribs) 02:35, 26 February 2007 (UTC).
Well, also consider the distance from Philadelphia to New Castle and how easy it was for a small state to gets its local council's to agree.
Spandox 17:22, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Taxes Question
It would be nice if someone who knows something about it would put some information in the Economy section about companies locating their official headquarters in Delaware for tax reasons, and using transfer pricing and other economic slight-of-hand to make their profits look like Delaware profits.
Something needs to be done about this. These templates are serving duplicate functions, and aren't really being used consistent with Wikipedia conventions. Usually, the template showing the division into counties and cities is located in the main article about the state (for Delaware, it is the "DEHistory" template that is at the bottom). The "DEHistory" template doesn't really have anything to do with history. It does contain a Continental Congress link, but that is not really Delaware-specific. The History template is being put in articles about people from Delaware, which isn't really consistent with template usage. The usual rule is that if the template contains a link to the article, it should be in that article. But I don't think it's necessary or desirable to put a Delaware template in every article about every person from Delaware. It's also not practical, since many people are associated with more than one state (e.g. should Andrew Jackson have the SC template or the TN template? Or both?! I propose to eliminate Template:DEHistory (most likely merging the Governors, Senators, etc. links into the main Template:Delaware. Any comments about this? --JW1805(Talk) 21:26, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
The information on the Template:Delaware has already been merged into the Template:DEHistory template. The Template:DEHistory is smaller, more visually appealing and more flexible. It is really just a nice header for more specific templates for office holders, etc., making it possible to place only secondary templates that are pertinent to the particular article, instead of a great big clunky template with links everywhere. I can imagine adding more people related classifications to one line on this template, and more geographical related classifications to the other line. It is very much a work in progress, but useful as it is. This template is a navigation box that has been given a great deal of thought, gone through considerable evolution, and received several compliments from other editors. I believe it has great promise for future usefulness. It certainly could entirely replace the Template:Delaware, and already has except perhaps on the Delaware article. Then it could be renamed. It actually does have a lot of history as the links all go to historical information. I would very much like to leave it alone for some time to see how it evolves, and can't see how any possible harm could come from that. Sometimes it takes a little time in a hothouse for something to grow; every decision does not have to be made in an instant. However, if one must go, it should be the big, boxy, (IMHO) poorly designed Template:Delaware. stilltim 11:09, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
This page now has an application of the Template:DEHistory header template as it was intended to be used in this context. The town list is corrected to include all incorporations and census designated places over 1,000 people. Perhaps that is too many, but at least its consistent, which it was not before. The hundreds are not listed in detail, but only by reference because they are sufficiently obscure these days. I know it is not a conventional state template, but it sure looks a whole lot better visually. May I suggest we give it a try for a while and see how it feels with some perspective. stilltim 14:32, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
I don't think the solution was to go and create yet another Delaware template. Now we have three templates with duplicate links: The two above, and now this:
{{DEplaces}}
I don't have a problem with, as you suggest, having a "people" template and a "geographical" template. But the current situation is no good. We have two templates entitled "State of Delaware". There needs to be one state template, like all the other states have. It's fine to adjust the formatting if you think it isn't visually appealing. But the answer isn't to create rival templates that contain many of the same links. --JW1805(Talk) 21:22, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
JW, I agree there is no need for rival templates. The DEplaces is not another Delaware template, but rather an expansion with particular relevance to this article. It works just like the DEGovernors. The DEHistory is the template. I was trying to be thoughful and polite and make sure you understood what I had in mind before changing all the articles as though I was unilaterally declaring my way the right way. So this was only a sample. Since you seem to be saying the approach is OK, I will make this one state template apply everywhere and make the name change and all the other required changes. I appreciate your working with me on this, and regret it is so hard to explain. This design really excites me because it is just like the many USGov templates and can be consistently used for virtually any piece of information. It makes it possible to replace the template hodge podge we now have with a clean consistently designed whole. I presume you have no problem with my removing the tag on DEplaces since you now understand it is not intended to be the Delaware template. stilltim 02:24, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
Ummmm, no I don't agree. Your new template should be deleted. It has no reason to exist. If you don't like Template:Delaware, then by all means, change the formatting of it. But don't create a whole new template with the same links. --JW1805(Talk) 04:49, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
I would just like to state that NONE of the towns listed are suburbs of Wilmington. All of them are completely separate towns and are NOT suburbs.
Delaware was not a colony, just a state.
Delaware was nothing ever but a boundary dispute between Maryland and Pennsylvania--one time part of a deed to the Duke of York, but never its own geographic entity until becoming a state. There is no reason to deny its position as the first of the 13th states, but all the more reason to keep it out of the colonial category. There were only 12 colonies rebelling, with estranged Delaware's exit from Pennsylvania beginning a trend that emancipated Vermont/Kentucky/Maine etc from parent polities (New York, Virginia, Massachusetts etc). Let's not get hazy on this, but more exacting and forthright. Hasbro 00:55, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
It's surprising that no one has taken up the cause of defending colonial Delaware, but at least this interesting but non-factual tidbit hasn't creeped into the article. Of course it was a colony - it was founded in the 17th century as New Sweden and only later did it become embroiled in boundary disputes and political power struggles and such. Like its neighbors Pennsylvania and Maryland, it was never a royal colony. Now, on to the current bit of misinformation in the article... it is not historically inaccurate to say that Delaware is "The First State", nor that it was the first to ratify the current constitution, nor that it was the first to ratify the former Articles of Confederation. However, it would be inaccurate to apply the historic ride of Caesar Rodney to cast Delaware's decisive vote for America's independence to the reason for being called "The First State". HokieRNB 21:34, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
It is historically inaccurate to call it the first state because of the constitution. I don't think, that Rodney's ride was why Delaware is called the first state. However, it is Historically Accurate to call Delaware the First State -- because it was the first state to approve the Articles of Confederation. Perhaps "Historically Inaccurate" is too contentious. I have changed it to "technically inaccurate"137.131.130.84 23:11, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
The other 12 colonies are ranked based on their ratification of the Constitution, why should Delaware be different. Not that matters, it's first either way.--Hgebel 15:33, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Sorry for the late response. I would just like to note that, even before Delaware formally withdrew from Pennsylvania, it had it's own delegation in the Continental Congress; it was clearly considered to be a separate colony by the Congress and I can't find any suggestion that Pennsylvania disputed this status. Delaware had it's own legislature from 1704. Certainly it is ridiculous to imply that Maine and Vermont were "emancipated" from parent entities. Vermont had no parent entity, it was founded without a charter on land that was disputed between New York and New Hampshire. If it can be said to have any parent entity that entity would be New Hampshire, which issued the original settlement grants. Although neither New York nor New Hampshire were happy with (or recognized) the Vermont Republic, neither successfully excised any control over the area and it was admitted to the Union more or less as an independent Republic not as a former part of New York or New Hampshire (this admission solved two problems, ending the boundary dispute and adding a free state to counterbalance the admission of Kentucky which was also about to be admitted to the Union.) Maine was admitted to the Union to counterbalance the admission of slave state Missouri, not because it was following some example set by any previous state (if it was following any example it would have been the example of Vermont). Kentucky it the only state of the four to have been both a definitive subsidiary part of a parent entity and to leave that entity at it's own citizen's request.--Hgebel 01:49, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
That is significantly better wording. HokieRNB 00:59, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
New proposed WikiProject
There is now a proposed WikiProject to deal with the state of Delaware at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Delaware. Any parties interested in taking part in such a project should indicate as much there, so that we can know if there is sufficient interest to create it. Thank you. Badbilltucker 16:52, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Missing image link in the infobox?
The title says it all. Hangfromthefloor 00:52, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Slave State?
"During the American Civil War, Delaware was a slave state that remained in the Union (Delaware voted not to secede on January 3, 1861). "
Does Delaware deserve to be called a slave state? It was really split half and half. North was anti, south was pro. I suggest reworking the sentence/paragraph. Any suggestions? Eleigh33 00:30, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
I don't necessarily think so. All the slave states, from Alabama to Delaware, had dissenters and anti-slavers. It doesn't necessarily make it noteworthy, though, because there was no official legislation legally splitting the state. If they wanted to, they could have slaves in Wilmington; it just was taboo in the city by that point. So, if you want to mention something quick, go ahead, but definitely don't change the context, as Delaware (despite popular opinion) was 100% a slave state until the 13th Amendment (remember: the Emancipation Proclamation was only for the rebelling states, and said that states still loyal could keep the status quo)...sorry! EaglesFanInTampa(formerly Jimbo) 13:51, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
"Slave state" was a reference to the state's laws, not the state's customs. Slavery was legal in Delaware, therefore Delaware was a "slave state". Raul is correct in pointing out that "Border state" was the term for " a slave state that remained in the Union", but the term "border state" should be explained at least once in the article. Αργυριου(talk) 17:08, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Slavery was still legal in the state, but by 1860 91.7 percent of the blacks in Delaware were free (Kolchin, American Slavery, 1994, p.82)--Parkwells (talk) 12:50, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
visitdelaware.com
http://www.visitdelaware.com Was removed as spam. The visitdelaware site is official official site of DEDO (delaware economic development office - a government agency). The site contains all sort sorts useful information about the state and various "attractions" within the state. Is is also where a person can go get more information on the state.
In the festivals section there is mention of hydraulic machines - I do not believe this to be the case - I have been for several years and have never heard of a hydraulic punk'n chunker. Is there any data behind the inclusion of this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Spandox (talk • contribs) 15:48, 2 March 2007 (UTC).
yo i need info for my state project
love,
iaintplayin
humandictionary01@yahoo.com
RE:HYDRAULICS- there is no hydraulic category in the official competition, someone possibly confused the air cannons with hydraulics? Anyhow the official classes are: Air, centfrifugal, catapult, trebuchet, human power, and torsion, There are also various youth categories. <http://www.punkinchunkin.com/results2006.htm>. I'll go ahead and update the section. Eleigh33 20:42, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
The official state song consist of a poem "Our Delaware" containing three verses in honor of each county of the State, written by George B. Hynson; a fourth verse in praise of the State and pledging the loyalties of its citizens, written by Donn Devine; and a musical score composed specifically for the state song by Will M. S. Brown".
State Colors:
State Color - Colonial BlueState Color - Buff Colonial blue and buff —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Spandox (talk • contribs) 14:59, 19 March 2007 (UTC).
Delaware Region
My recent embellishment of a change was reverted with the note that a citation was needed. A citation is present already. Therefore, I will revert the recent change. The diff in question that I will revert: DIFF. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 11:15, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
The designation of Delaware as a "Middle Atlantic State" dates to at least a year ago (see this diff), while the footnote has been in place for at least the last several months (see [1]). I think it is helpful to clarify the different designations, but the state should not just be reassigned to the Southern states without some discussion. HokieRNB 13:33, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Well, first off, the diffs you provide above are not the correct ones, it seems, but that is a minor matter. The whole point here revolves around the understandable desire to not just use the US Census Bureau designation in the leading sentence of the article. That's reasonable and the "/"-based revision is fine ... although some word-smithing might not be out of order. All in all, I think your reversion was unthinking reflex (particularly considering the addition I had in fact made to the footnote) and your second edit was more thoughtful and appropriate. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 20:50, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
"The State of..."
This addition is unnecessary. It makes the definition read, "The state of Delaware... is a state..." Would you say "the city of Wilmington is a city..."? Or "the country of England is a country..."? I am going to change it back again on the Delaware page, and hopefully take a look at other states and make them consistent. HokieRNB 18:02, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
It is common English use to introduce the full official name of an entity on first use and the common name on subsequent uses. For example: "The Commonwealth of Pennsyslvania, commonly known as Pennsyslvania, is one of the 50 states of the United States of America". I work for one of the U.S. states, and I am required to use the official state name for all correspondence. Please see U.S. state#List_of_states. --Buaidh 18:44, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Buaidh, and I don't think you should be reverting people who change it back to the way it was before you changed things. It's Bold-revert-discuss, not Bold-revert-revert-discuss. I went to the Delaware talk page expecting, at least, to find a discussion among editors of that article, but all that's there is an announcement by you that this is what you're going to do. It seems you've stopped, but i would recommend not restarting until a consensus is reached. IMO, the official name should be used first, then the common name. I can't spend much time on this today, but I strongly suspect this is already addressed in the WP:MOS somewhere; I'll look it up if someone else hasn't done so by tomorrow morning. Should this discussion be here, or on Delaware's talk page? --barneca (talk) 19:14, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (usually shortened to the United Kingdom or UK) occupies part of the British Isles in northwestern Europe ...
Also, for a different example of the same theory, but different article type, look at Jimmy Carter, which starts out:
James Earl "Jimmy" Carter, Jr. (born October 1, 1924(1924-10-01)), was the 39th...
I still think the MOS somewhere addresses US states, specifically, but can't find it and have to go. A message left on the appropriate MOS talk page might get some good feedback. --barneca (talk) 19:34, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
--end of copy from talk page--
My concern is more with the flow of the lead sentence, which when rendered the way that it is being changed by Buaidh would be akin to having the aforementioned example starting -
President James Earl "Jimmy" Carter, Jr. ... was the 39th President of ...
"State of..." is part of an official title, but the name of the state is still simply "Delaware". Likewise I would have the same concern if the first example defined "the United Kingdom of ..." as a kingdom. I will desist from making further changes until there is consensus. Thanks. HokieRNB 21:27, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
I've looked, and am evidently wrong that there is a specific section of WP:MOS related to the lead sentence of a geographic article. I still think the UK example I gave above, combined with the vast majority of state and country articles I looked at, favor leading with The State of Delaware...
However, I now understand your point better. I think with some judicious rewording, we could satify both criteria; starting with the official name, without always saying "The State of Delaware is a state...".
Lastly, I should mention that I didn't realize that Buaidh had changed the wording on Delaware first, so my snide comment above about Bold-revert-revert-discuss should probably have been directed at him, not HokieRNB (I only noticed what was going on at Pennsylvania), or better yet, not said at all since it was a just a minor 1RR dustup. Sorry for the minor snottiness. --barneca (talk) 12:28, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Point of order #1: many of the US state articles you may have looked at were recently edited by [[User:Buaidh|Buaidh] to add the "official designation" using the edit summary "fixed IPA" or "moved template" or "moved references". I only reverted the first 10 (by order of ratification). So if we are going to assess the wikipedia convention on lead sentences in US state articles, it probably ought to consider the articles prior to yesterday's editing spree. HokieRNB 13:02, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Point of order #2: since the outcome has import for 50 articles, is there a better more centralized place for this discussion? HokieRNB 13:02, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
(ec) I've thought about this a tiny bit more, and have two additional points:
There is a Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. states, and it sort of, but not quite, addresses this near the bottom of the page. It seems to imply that as long as the official name is mentioned somewhere in the introduction, it doesn't necessarily need to be the first reference (supporting HokieRNB).
Probably most important: as picky as I am, and as much as I'd like to see a uniform phrasing across all articles, the fact of the matter is that people who care about this kind of thing have their own states on their watchlists, and those groups are going to come to different consensuses (consensa? consensi?), depending on regional preference. For example, I can pretty much guarantee that every state with "Commonwealth" in its official name is going to lead with the official name. Trying to impose a uniform phrasing is going to be, at the end of the day, nearly impossible. If you look at the pages Buaidh and HokieRNB editted yesterday, almost all of them have already been reverted to whatever they were before. If you really, really want to try to standardize this, probably the place to go is bringing it up at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. states. As for me, now that I've realized that ultimately the first line is probably going to be what is was the day before yesterday, I'll wait to see if others have comments, or if it is brought up at the WikiProject, before thinking about it more. --barneca (talk) 13:17, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
My primary purpose was to add the IPA pronunciations of the official state titles. I also moved the US state template to the top of the article and expanded the state template.
To revert ten edits without discussion is a bit aggressive and a huge waste of my time.
It is only a waste of your time if you insist on going back and editing them to add the official designation portion ("The State of") to the state names. It's probably not necessary to offer readers 46 versions of the correct way to pronouce "state of". I agree with barneca, let's leave the lead line the way it was with regard to the title, and add the IPA pronunciations for the common name of the state only. HokieRNB 15:26, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
I have done as you commanded. Anything else sir? --Buaidh 13:13, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
It's difficult to tell in print, but I would guess from your comment you feel there was an implied command from someone. I just want to clarify that to the best of my knowledge, each request or suggestion I made included a "please" and invited further discussion. At any rate, I hope you are not intending to be condescending, and if you feel that I was toward you, please let me know. I was hoping that this discussion would generate comments from other users, but I think it is clear from the bulk of the US state articles that consensus is to open with the common name of the state. Only a handful (most notably the four commonwealths, Indiana, Illinois, and California) opened with the official title. HokieRNB 16:07, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
National Historic Sites
This statement--"Delaware has no national parks, national seashores, national historic sites, national battlefields, national memorials, or national monuments"--is contradicted by this entry: Category:List_of_National_Historic_Landmarks_by_state. The NPS website has a complete list, and note explaining: "The numerous designations within the National Park System sometime confuse visitors. The names are created in the Congressional legislation authorizing the sites or by the president, who proclaims "national monuments" under the Antiquities Act of 1906. Many names are descriptive -- lakeshores, seashores, battlefields --but others cannot be neatly categorized because of the diversity of resources within them. In
1970, Congress elaborated on the 1916 National Park Service Organic Act, saying all units of the system have equal legal standing in a national system." http://www.nps.gov/nhl/designations/Lists/DE01.pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.168.131.24 (talk) 09:28, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
First to ratify what ??
This nickname officially refers to the fact that Delaware was the first to ratify the United States Constitution.[6] Even though the states were already known as such prior to the Constitution, the motto itself is still historically accurate, as Delaware was indeed the first state to ratify the Articles of Confederation, the first document legally naming the new American political entities as "states"
The preceding statement as it stands is nonsensical. The "articles of confederation" was a completely separate document to the "United States Constitution". For which of these was Delaware the first state to ratify ?? Eregli bob 04:02, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
This rather awkward wording is the result of a compromise with an editor who took great issue with the idea of the "First State" referring to the ratification of the Constitution, since the Articles of Confederation predated it. Thus, the first state would have been whichever was the first to ratify the earlier document. Delaware was first on both accounts. The nickname is officially attributed to Delaware's being first to ratify the constitution, however, the historical veracity of it being the "first" state can be attributed to it being the first to ratify the articles of confederation. HokieRNB 13:54, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm sorry to report that, at least in 1952, historians believed that Delaware was the "next-to-last state to join the Confederation" (J. A. Munroe, Nonresident Representation in the Continental Congress: The Delaware Delegation of 1782, in The William and Mary Quarterly, Third Series, Vol. 9, No. 2, (Apr., 1952), pp. 174-175), based mainly on a protracted dispute with the larger states regarding ownership of trans-Appalachian land (bordering State, or Federal?).Patent.drafter (talk) 00:35, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
Diamond State?
isn't the diamond state Arkansas? - Schrandit 15:30, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
Although never officially designated as such, Arkansas may have previously used "The Diamond State" as a nickname based on the fact that it contains the only diamond mine in North America. The diamond is the official state gem of Arkansas, but its official nickname is "The Natural State". Delaware, on the other hand, comprises all but one hit in the first two pages of a Google search for the term. The only Arkansas hit is for a gay social group. HokieRNB 15:44, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
On the other hand, the comment regarding Jefferson does not appear to have a reliable source - otherwise there would be a document that quotes him. My view is that the name is derived from the state flag - see its description Tedickey 15:51, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
makes sense, I was going by their state quarter, and the page Diamond State - Schrandit 16:13, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
The Jefferson source is quoted most often by Delaware-related pages, including the State's official Government Information Center and the News Journal's Delaware almanac, and is published in a 2002 book by Jay D. Winans (ISBN1930954999), making it significantly more reliable than an individual personally surmising that it is somehow related to the design of the state flag. HokieRNB 16:51, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
None of which are even second-hand reports - they're all reporting rumors without giving an original source of the information (and noting that they're acknowleging that they don't have an original source via terms such as "legend" and "attributed to"). Jefferson wrote a lot - if he said something in a speech, it's probably written down. Lacking a _reliable_ source, the best one can do for this is to qualify the comments. My comment on the flag description might be useful in case there is related material to search there; a search for reliable information regarding Jefferson+Delaware appears to produce only rumors (and copies thereof) Tedickey 17:16, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
I somehow woke up in Dixie Land
Why does Wikipedia allow the United States Census Bureau's designation to trump all other regional definitions? Delaware is much more closely associated with the cultural Northeast or Mid-Atlantic than the south. I have moved all the categorizations I could find to reflect Delaware's status as part of the Northeast. Elpiseos 19:16, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Not to be an jerk, but because this is an encyclopedia. If something is defined by the US Government as being part of the South that pretty well makes it part of the South. The description of the south I read made sure to explain that though Delaware was not closely affiliated with the South it is still legally part of it. - Schrandit 19:37, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Agree - there's no point in scraping up random google hits and claiming that they're reliable sources to cite for recategorizing the topic.Tedickey 19:46, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
That is just one agency of the U.S. government. The majority of others (including the OMB) don't see it the same way. Nor do many Delawareans. Nor do many non-Delawareans. Elpiseos 19:59, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Oh. Really. Which of those URLs is a page devoted to proving your point (that the Census Bureau is making a mistake)? None of them. Tedickey 20:04, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Each URL points to a page showing how the entity has defined a particular region to include Delaware. I'm not suggesting that the Census Bureau is wrong. I'm suggesting that Wikipedia is not honor-bound to accept their definition as the consensus for what region Delaware most closely identifies with. For instance, the Southern Education Foundation doesn't see Delaware as part of their region. The government of Delaware aligns itself with the Northeast (see [2] and [3], for example). Elpiseos 20:15, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Well, you've got 49 other states to fixup so they're no longer using the Census categories. Perhaps after you've "fixed" a few more, someone will drive the point into your head. Bye. Tedickey 20:43, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the tip, but since I'm not interested in how other states are categorized, I think I'll focus my attention on Delaware. Besides, there is probably very little doubt over the consensus (for instance) that South Carolina is a part of the cultural, geographical, and historical south. The USCB would align well with the OMB and the vast majority of other state and federal agencies on most of the states, but in Delaware, it just doesn't seem to fit. Elpiseos 20:47, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
I'd like to weigh in as a native of Delaware and express my agreement that Delaware is no more a part of the "South" than Philadelphia is. However, as I've pointed out in comments regarding an earlier issue, it doesn't so much matter what I think, but rather what has the backing of reliable sources. If the sources don't agree, then the fact should either be removed altogether, or relegated to the footnotes. It remains undisputed that Delaware is along the eastern coast of the U.S. and it might be best to leave it at that. HokieRNB 21:08, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
It might be. But then consider the next one to come along and point out that most of Delaware is not actually on the coast, but is really adjacent to New Jersey.Tedickey 21:12, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Don't try to make that argument to people who actually live in beach towns in Delaware. Are you suggesting they don't swim in the Atlantic? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.141.166.233 (talk) 23:00, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
That's a rhetorical question of course (since I wasn't arguing). But since you ask, a quick check with google shows around 90 miles from Cape Lewes to the upper end of Delaware - not Atlantic coast, since it's Delaware Bay. The distance the other way (noting that the bulk of the population is in the upper end), is less than a third of that distance. Weighing in the population figures (I looked them up - did you?), it's clear that most of Delaware both area and population is not on the coast, but between Delaware Bay and Maryland. A couple of corners on each end are interfacing to Pennsylvania and the Atlantic Ocean. (This disregards the people who then will show up and claim that everything east of the ridgeline of the Applachians is "coast", etc.) Tedickey 23:31, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
That could be the most illogical bits of information I've ever seen put together to try to pass off as a cohesive thought. Why not dissect the state of California and make the argument that since you can't see the ocean from most places in the state it must not be a "Pacific Coast state"?
California has appreciably more coastline (and geographic diversity) than Delaware, whose Atlantic coastline is shorter than San Francisco Bay. Your DNS implies you're in north-NJ. Does that mean you believe you're on Delaware Bay? Tedickey 01:03, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
God forbid. I mean about being in northern New Jersey. What I do believe is that it's ludicrous to attempt to claim that New Jersey is not bounded by the Delaware River simply because there is a majority of it that is not. It doesn't change the fact that New Jersey is bounded by the Delaware River. So in any list of states along the Delaware River, New Jersey must ipso facto be included. In the same way, any list of states being designated as "Atlantic Coast" states must include Delaware. It has coastline on the Atlantic Ocean. Therefore it is an Atlantic state. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.141.166.233 (talk) 01:15, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
Back to the original point of this thread, must Wikipedia accept the definition imposed by USCB as the a priori way of categorizing states by region? I disagree with Schrandit and don't believe there is legal standing that makes Delaware part of the south, and no one that I've ever asked has even considered putting Delaware into that category. It's either in the Northeast or it's in the Middle Atlantic. Most people who aren't familiar with the state actually consider it part of New England, but then many don't even realize it's a state. Go figure. Maher-shalal-hashbaz 01:25, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
Legally was a poor choice of word on my behalf, but never the less this is an encyclopedia and Delaware is classified by the American government as part of the South. I think both the Delaware and the Southern United States article make a good mention of Delaware cultural links with the Northeastern United States but none the less it is historically and geographically part of the South and I believe should remain classified as such. - Schrandit 17:26, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
I think you are mistaken. Historically, states have been considered part of the south if they were below the Mason-Dixon line, which Delaware is not. (It's east of it.) I think if you take a brief straw poll, you would find that very few people, if any, would identify the "South" as a regional distinction for Delaware as a state. In today's culture, it's very much a part of the metropolitan corridor between Washington, D.C. and New York City. The "American government" does not classify Delaware as part of the South... if anything the consensus among government agencies is to classify it as Northeastern. Only one agency is cited as identifying Delaware with the South, and that is the USCB. In fact, the U.S. Library of Congress (which should be considered a fairly reliable source) puts Delaware into the following categories: Atlantic States; East; Middle Atlantic States; Northeastern States. The Princeton Review includes Delaware in the Northeast region for institutions of higher learning. Although it doesn't explicitly mention Delaware, BBC includes Baltimore, Washington, and Philadelphia in its description of Northeastern United States weather conditions. Google does not consider Delaware in its categorization scheme for South and Southeast, but rather in both the Mid-Atlantic and Northeast. How many sources does it take to demonstrate that USCB does not represent consensus? Maher-shalal-hashbaz 20:04, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
The problem here is that Delaware is really neither of the Northeast nor the South; the cultural "boundary", such as it is (and these things are always fuzzy) runs along the Chesapeake and Delaware Canal. This presents a quandary; most of the geographic territory of the state is Southern, but the vast majority of the population live in the environs of Wilmington, Newark, and New Castle, north of the canal. (Dover is something of a special case in itself, for being the capital and hosting Dover Air Force Base, both of which rotate the population more than usual even in America.)
I don't have a problem per se with Wikipedia deciding that population trumps acreage, but a wider consensus should be sought, perhaps with a post to the village pump? —CComMack (t–c) 05:10, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
All about Delaware
The state animal is —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.253.20.29 (talk) 20:22, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Incorporation
Since Delaware's favorable laws regarding incorporation have led many companies to incorporate there (those that haven't fled offshore for even more favorable laws), would it be appropriate for there to be a discussion of this in the economy section of the article? It would seem that Delaware did this to attract income, and I think that's worth mentioning somewhere as it makes it unique economy-wise among the states.
Yes their lack of Consumer protection laws have lead many compoanies to incorporate there, Credit card cos, that charge usury 30%
interest rates are all incorporated in Delaware. The negative impact on consumer protection should be discussed.
InternetAnthropologistTT@gmail.com
The article currently says: Despite ranking 45th in population, it is the seventh most densely populated state, with a population density of 320 more people per square mile than the national average, ranking ahead of states such as Florida, California, and Texas. This section makes it sound like there is a correlation between density and absolute numbers of population when, in fact, it's much easier for small states to rank highly in population density lists. I suggest to remove "despite" and the larger state names and just mention the ranking positions in some way.--134.130.4.46 (talk) 12:19, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Economy
Given the state's long tradition of industry, especially chemicals and pharmaceuticals, and finance, couldn't a different image than people picking peaches be found?--Parkwells (talk) 13:10, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
One of the things Delaware has been famous for is making space suits for the NASA manned flight program ... though they recently lost this contract to a competitor ... don't recall details right now. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 02:46, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
"First state to enter the union"
How is something consisting of only Delaware a "union"? :) --Trɔpʏliʊm • blah 13:02, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
Tax Haven Status
As a Brit, I am aware that Delaware has a reputation, justified or not, as:
a tax haven
having corporate incorporation laws that favour the company's directors over its shareholders, employees, customers, etc., more than any other state in the Union
the home of many dodgy companies, pursuing activities that would be forbidden, or made less profitable, in most other states
I would hope to see some mention of this, either supporting or refuting the reputation, in the article. Maproom (talk) 21:51, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
Absolute bull s**t. Just because you may not like Corporations doesnt give you the right to trash a state govt. Neutral POV. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.191.49.80 (talk) 02:07, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
Photo
Great photo that they have of the map, if I zoom in and use a magnifying glass I can almost see it! Come on, we seriously can't do any better than the photo that's up there??? 68.99.25.61 (talk) 23:11, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
We use the same template for all the states and then a similar one for all the countries. - Schrandit (talk) 01:34, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
Yes, but look at Rhode Island. We could modify the template to accommodate the smallness of Delaware. HokieRNB 11:06, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
Fair point, the article would probably benefit from such an illustration but I must confess that possess no skill for such things. - Schrandit (talk) 19:49, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
Delaware edit- "Atheism" vs "No religion"
A recent modification to the demographics in this article, changing "No religion" to "Atheism". These are the same thing. While all atheists could be said to have no religion, not all who profess to no religion is atheist (they could be agnostic or believe in some supreme power without subscribing to a specific creed). I've reverted this change.Wkharrisjr (talk) 22:34, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
Climate - newspaper article for consideration as source - 22, 24 Sept 2010
Staff (22 September 2010), "Temperature sets record in Sussex", DelawareOnline, News Journal (Gannett), retrieved 23 September 2010{{citation}}: CS1 maint: date and year (link) --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 11:10, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
Staff (24 September 2010), "Record heat statewide", DelawareOnline, News Journal (Gannett), retrieved 24 September 2010{{citation}}: CS1 maint: date and year (link) --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 02:55, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Those are only local highs for a specific day of the year. Something topical would be statewide, across all days of the year (or possibly per-month). TEDickey (talk) 12:41, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
Map replacement
A recent edit replaced in the InfoBox the map File:Map of USA DE.svg with File:Delaware in United States.svg. I definitely agree that the new image makes Delaware more prominent and distinguishable from background, but I have to say that overall the new map is not as attractive as the former one. Just making an observation ... I think it would take significant tinkering to come to a medium between the two, something which I personally right now am not willing to commit to -- apologies. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 23:54, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
Demographic information removed shortly after anon addition
The edits were done from one of the ip's associated with someone who's making up some of the data. TEDickey (talk) 15:49, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
largest employers
See for example this, which is radically different from the list presented in this topic. TEDickey (talk) 12:14, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
According to latest Comprehensive Annual Financial Report, the state of Delaware no longer is allowed to report employment figures for the ten largest private employers. However, as recently as 2009 the ranking was as follows:
That list is similar to the one I linked (but does not list public employers). If the topic's list cannot be sourced, it should be removed. TEDickey (talk) 00:08, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
LGBT
Information about public attitudes about gay marriage/civil unions has been added to the "Demographics" section of the article. I'm not sure what this has to do with demographics- it is more political or cultural. For that matter, this information seems out of place in a straight-forward article about the state. I think the information would be more accessible by someone researching public attitudes about gay marriage/civil unions in a the article Societal attitudes toward homosexuality. Any objections if I remove this information and move it to that article? Wkharrisjr (talk) 14:41, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
Since there have been no comments in 10 days, I will make the proposed edit. Wkharrisjr (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16 April 2012
Incorporation in Delaware
Besides updating per Tax Justice Network's 2011 Financial Secrecy Index, I also deleted the outdated reference to 2009 OECD "Black List" on which Delaware did NOT appear; the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development no longer maintains any such list. JohnValeron (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:15, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
zone map
The image for the "The 2012 USDA zone map for Delaware"--credited at the file source as "own work"-- shows a small sliver of zone 8a in the extreme southeast. This appears to be a fabrication as the official zone map published by the USDA shows no such thing:
At the very least, if this map is included, the source of its information should be clearly identified, and it should not be attributed to the USDA. Why not just use the USDA's own image? From the above website: "Most information presented on the USDA Web site is considered public domain information. Public domain information may be freely distributed or copied, but use of appropriate byline/photo/image credits is requested. Attribution may be cited as follows: "U. S. Department of Agriculture." 160.111.254.17 (talk) 18:42, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
Region redux
I reverted edits today attempting to add "Northeast" as a second region to identify Delaware. In doing so, I restored an old note that had been developed through consensus to explain that while there are a variety of definitions from different "authorities", Mid-Atlantic should be the primary regional identifier. HokieRNB 21:27, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
Assessment comment
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Delaware/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
you should add some people that are famous from Delaware and some presidents. and maybe a nickname or some fun facts will do also. i had a real hard time finding these things on the web. ( i always check Wikipedia first because i like it very much) from, a Wikipedia fan.
Last edited at 01:10, 29 October 2013 (UTC).
Substituted at 08:54, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
Yes, all the places on the list are either incorporated places or Census Designated Places. However, especially in the northern part of Delaware, the majority of the population lives in suburban sprawl, within unincorporated communities that are not CDPs. HokieRNB 11:20, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
Delaware is a northeastern state.
Delaware is northeastern state because Delaware used to be part of New Netherland, New Sweden and then later Pennsylvania, was one of the middle colonies (along with NY, PA and NJ). Delaware is also considered part of the Philadelphia tri-state area. Philadelphia's a northeastern city in a northeastern state. Wilmington and Philadelphia share bridges to New Jersey, you can see Philly's skyline from Delaware and if you can see that far really good on a clear day, you could even see NYC's skyline. There's nothing southern about Delaware. MuppetHammer26II (talk) 00:38, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
By the way, when you assert in your change comments that something was sourced, it's more or less expected to have provided the sources. So far, that aspect is lacking. TEDickey (talk) 20:11, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
Delaware is too far north to be considered a southeastern state. MuppetHammer26II (talk) 20:57, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
Your response was nonreponsive. WP:RS is a good place to start reading TEDickey (talk) 21:56, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
I agree that Delaware is not a Southern state, but the best way to refer to it is Mid-Atlantic. It often is included in the expanded metro conglomerates of Philadelphia, Baltimore, and Newark-NYC. Scarlettail (talk) 22:10, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
Thank you, Scarlettail for not calling Delaware a southern state. Like I said earlier, Delaware is too far north to be a southern state. The best region for Delaware would be the Northeast. MuppetHammer26II (talk) 01:47, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
largest employers
Discussion (see archive) was removed without attempting to resolve the problem. There is no source for the given information, and it appears to differ noticeably from existing sources. The way to fix the problem is to provide WP:RSTEDickey (talk) 08:53, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
External links modified
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Delaware can't be the 1st state in the union as there cannot be a union without two states....therefore the title of number 1 should be shared between Delaware and Pennsylvania.... Penn1delaware1 (talk) 02:57, 9 June 2017 (UTC)
What the article actually says is that Delaware was the first state to ratify the Constitution, which is true regardless of semantic quibbling. Camerafiend (talk) 13:19, 9 June 2017 (UTC)
Delaware was the last of the "13 original colonies" to become a state. This is from the lede, with the note separated out:
On December 7, 1787, Delaware became the first state to ratify the Constitution of the United States, and has since promoted itself as "The First State". Note: "The First to Ratify" would be more accurate, as the beginnings of the states themselves date back to the Declaration of Independence, celebrated July 4, 1776, when what was to become the State of Delaware was still the three lower counties of Pennsylvania with the governor in Philadelphia, and not establishing independence from that body until September 20, 1776. According to Delaware's own website, "Delaware became a state in 1776, just two months after the signing of the Declaration of Independence." (ref-pdf) Therefore Delaware was actually the last of the thirteen colonies to establish itself as a state. Additionally, the Delaware State Quarter is minted with this nickname, yet shows Caesar Rodney on horseback in commemoration of how he was the last delegate to show up to the Continental Congress for the historic vote for independence. And with regard to the original Articles of Confederation, Delaware was the 12th of the 13 states to ratify.
One of the most important roles for an encyclopedia is to present facts accurately. Individuals and organizations have their own agendas, and this often leads to information getting spun up into something that takes an appearance as a fact, yet fails to hold up when investigated. So for the case of this article, the NPOV way to present the info is to highlight how the State of Delaware promotes itself with their official motto as being "The First State", and then lay out the accurate facts of the matter that shows that it was actually the last.
And to be even more thorough, this article can present the fact that Rhode Island was the first colony to assert its independence from Great Britain.
"On May 4, 1776, Rhode Island became the first of the 13 colonies to renounce its allegiance to the British Crown..."
Stamping bogus info onto a million license plates does not make it accurate. It is clear to me that Delaware's claim to being the "first state" has absolutely no validity. It was the first state to ratify the current constitution. But the country existed before that document. And so did the states that comprised the country.--Tdadamemd sioz (talk) 01:40, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
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This edit request to Delaware#Geography has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
Change the geography section to:
Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. This is a serious change to a rather decent chunk of the article. Upsidedown Keyboard (talk) 02:38, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
Map of DelawareThe Twelve-Mile CircleDiagram of the Twelve-Mile Circle, the Mason–Dixon line and "The Wedge". All blue and white areas are inside Delaware.
Delaware is 96 miles (154 km) long and ranges from 9 miles (14 km) to 35 miles (56 km) across, totaling 1,954 square miles (5,060 km2), making it the second-smallest state in the United States, after Rhode Island. Delaware is bounded to the north by Pennsylvania; to the east by the Delaware River, Delaware Bay, New Jersey and the Atlantic Ocean; and to the west and south by Maryland. Small portions of Delaware are also situated on the eastern side of the Delaware River sharing land boundaries with New Jersey. The state of Delaware, together with the Eastern Shore counties of Maryland and two counties of Virginia, form the Delmarva Peninsula, which stretches down the Mid-Atlantic Coast.
The definition of the northern boundary of the state is unusual. Most of the boundary between Delaware and Pennsylvania was originally defined by an arc extending 12 miles (19.3 km) from the cupola of the courthouse in the city of New Castle.[citation needed] This boundary is often referred to as the Twelve-Mile Circle.[a] This is the only nominally circular[nb 1] state boundary in the United States.[citation needed]
This border extends all the way east to the low-tide mark on the New Jersey shore, then continues south along the shoreline until it again reaches the 12-mile (19 km) arc in the south; then the boundary continues in a more conventional way in the middle of the main channel (thalweg) of the Delaware River. To the west, a portion of the arc extends past the easternmost edge of Maryland. The remaining western border runs slightly east of due south from its intersection with the arc. The Wedge of land between the northwest part of the arc and the Maryland border was claimed by both Delaware and Pennsylvania until 1921, when Delaware's claim was confirmed.
Topography
Delaware is on a level plain, with the lowest mean elevation of any state in the nation.[1] Its highest elevation, located at Ebright Azimuth, near Concord High School, is less than 450 feet (140 m) above sea level.[1] The northernmost part of the state is part of the Piedmont Plateau with hills and rolling surfaces. The Atlantic Seaboard fall line approximately follows the Robert Kirkwood Highway between Newark and Wilmington; south of this road is the Atlantic Coastal Plain with flat, sandy, and, in some parts, swampy ground.[2] A ridge about 75 to 80 feet (23 to 24 m) in elevation extends along the western boundary of the state and separates the watersheds that feed Delaware River and Bay to the east and the Chesapeake Bay to the west.
Climate
Since almost all of Delaware is a part of the Atlantic coastal plain, the effects of the ocean moderate its climate. The state lies in the humid subtropical climate zone. Despite its small size (roughly 100 miles (160 km) from its northernmost to southernmost points), there is significant variation in mean temperature and amount of snowfall between Sussex County and New Castle County. Moderated by the Atlantic Ocean and Delaware Bay, the southern portion of the state has a milder climate and a longer growing season than the northern portion of the state. Delaware's all-time record high of 110 °F (43 °C) was recorded at Millsboro on July 21, 1930. Its all-time record low of −17 °F (−27 °C) was also recorded at Millsboro on January 17, 1893.
The Blackbird Pond on the Blackbird State Forest Meadows Tract in New Castle County, DelawareA field north of Fox Den Rd., along the Lenape Trail in Middle Run Valley Natural Area.Sunset in Woodbrook, New Castle County, Delaware
Environment
The transitional climate of Delaware supports a wide variety of vegetation. In the northern third of the state are found Northeastern coastal forests and mixed oak forests typical of the northeastern United States.[3] In the southern two-thirds of the state are found Middle Atlantic coastal forests.[3]Trap Pond State Park, along with areas in other parts of Sussex County, for example, support the northernmost stands of bald cypress trees in North America.
Environmental management
Delaware provides government subsidy support for the clean-up of property "lightly contaminated" by hazardous waste, the proceeds for which come from a tax on wholesale petroleum sales.[4]
. I think that "doesn't quite reach" sounds unprofessional and that there should be a note because otherwise, it wouldn't be obvious to mainly readers why the word "nominally" is necessary. 2601:2C1:C280:3EE0:C0C6:BDB5:EC1E:3799 (talk) 01:45, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
^Montgomery, Jeff (May 14, 2011). "Cleaning up contamination". The News Journal. New Castle, Delaware: Gannett. DelawareOnline. Archived from the original on May 14, 2011. Retrieved May 14, 2011. {{cite news}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)The first online page is archived; the page containing information related here is not in the archived version.
Some proposed changes
This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. Some or all of the changes weren't supported by neutral, independent, reliable sources. Consider re-submitting with content based on media, books and scholarly works.
Information to be added or removed: I propose adding the below text in quotes to the education section of the page:
"Delaware ranked 17th in the nation for educational performance, according to Education Week’s Quality Counts 2018 report. It earned an overall score of 77.1 out of 100 points and a grade of C-plus. By comparison, the nation received a score of 75.2 or a C.
Delaware posted a B-minus in the Chance-for-Success category, ranking 25th on factors that contribute to a person’s success both within and outside the K-12 education system. Delaware received a mark of B-minus and finished 14th for School Finance. It ranked 34th with a grade of D-plus on the K-12 Achievement Index."
Explanation of issue: I believe this text would enhance the page, adding information on the quality of the state's K-12 education which is not currently available on the page. I'm asking your consideration because I work for Education Week. I apologize if I've misformatted this or left out information you need to make a decision - I'm rather new at this.
References supporting change: this is the source I'd cite: [1]Csmithepe (talk) 17:16, 11 February 2019 (UTC)Csmithepe
The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Delaware until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America1000 21:08, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
Is Delaware in the South?
Before the edit here made earlier this week, Delaware was not described in the lead as being part of the South since at least 7 November 2007, so I believe a consensus should be reached before proceeding with this edit. Although the Census Bureau does list Delaware as being a Southern state, my feeling is that the Census Bureau should not be the final word on a state's regional designation. As can be seen in the article List of regions of the United States, the Census Bureau is the only governmental organization that designates Delaware as being in the South, and it is also the only organization that groups Delaware in a way that does not group it with other more unambiguously North/Northeastern states.
The Bureau of Economic Analysis designates Delaware as "Mideast", a region that consists of Delaware, District of Columbia, Maryland, New Jersey, New York and Pennsylvania
The Agricultural Research Service (the research arm of the USDA) says that Delaware is in the "Northeast Area"
Aside from the Census Bureau, I was not able to find other organizations designating Delaware a "Southern state", so I think that Delaware should not be described as a Southern state in the lead of the article.
(Note that inspiration for these sources was drawn from the citation included here.)
Please let me know your thoughts on this. Thanks! palindrome§ǝɯoɹpuᴉןɐd 17:11, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
I was born & raised, & lived in Delaware for well over thirty years. I think the vast majority of people in Delaware would balk at considering Delaware a southern state & would be surprised that the census bureau designates it as such.
I think that most Delawareans would call our state as part of the Mid.Atlantic.
That said, most of Delaware is south of the eastern end of the Mason-Dixon Line. It was a slave holding state, although there was a strong abolitionist sentiment in northern Delaware, which had many Quakers. It remained in the Union & never had Jim Crow laws of which I am aware.
For a more consensus view, I would refer to the List of regions of the United States. The Standard Federal Regions, the Federal Reserve System, the United States courts of appeals, the Bureau of Economic Analysis, the Agricultural Research Service, theU.S. National Park Service all include Delaware in regional groupings with Pennsylvania & New Jersey, so the Census Bureau is an outlier in associating Delaware with the South.
I used the Census definition because, as it says in the List of regions of the United States, their definition is "widely used ... for data collection and analysis", and "is the most commonly used classification system". As for Delaware being in the South, I've heard people consider New Castle County part of the Northeast, while Sussex and Kent Counties are considered part of the Tidewater South along with Virginia/Maryland's Eastern Shore.--DruidLantern8 (talk) 19:00, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
Typically the OMB is considered the authority on geographical groupings. As mentioned at List of regions of the United States#Standard Federal Regions, The ten standard federal regions were established by OMB (Office of Management and Budget) Circular A-105, "Standard Federal Regions", in April 1974, and required for all executive agencies. The OMB's Region III is composed of Delaware, District of Columbia, Maryland, Pennsylvania, Virginia, West Virginia. Neither Delaware nor Pennsylvania is part of the South.
Furthermore, at Tidewater (region)#Definition, it states It includes the low-lying plains of southeast Virginia, northeastern North Carolina, southern Maryland and the Chesapeake Bay.[1] According to another definition geographically it covers about 50,000 square miles extending north from Long Island down south to the North Carolina-South Carolina border.[2][better source needed]. By the first definition, the Tidewater region only includes those states bordering on the Chesapeake. By the second definition, Pennsylvania& Delaware are included, & like Delaware, Pennsylvania is not part of the South.
One final thing to mention: when Delaware became a British colony and was then called "the Lower Counties on the Delaware" by the Duke of York. This was separate from his deed for Pennsylvania. Delaware was governed as part of Pennsylvania from 1682 until 1701. [...] At that time, the Lower Counties petitioned for and were granted an independent colonial legislature; the two colonies shared the same governor until 1776. The one state that Delaware is inexorably associated with is Pennsylvania, especially since it shares the same side of the Delaware River (New Jersey is on the other side).
Only someone ignorant of Delaware's history & willing to disregard the state of things on the ground would try to classify Delaware as part of the South. Again, as a Delaware native, I would object to any attempt to place Delaware as part of the South. It simply ain't so. Peaceray (talk) 20:45, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
While it's true Delaware used to be part of Pennsylvania, the lower two Delmarva counties are culturally associated more with Maryland/Virginia rather than Pennsylvania. Also, on the Delaware Colony article it says "Penn had a very hard time governing Delaware because the economy and geology resembled those of the Chesapeake Bay colonies more than that of Pennsylvania." However, New Castle County has a strong connection to Pennsylvania, particularly Wilmington, and it's the most populous county in the state. Perhaps to compromise, I could put Delaware in both the Northeastern and Southern state templates?--DruidLantern8 (talk) 21:00, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
@DruidLantern8: Would you please link to the Northeastern and Southern state templates? I cannot find them. Do the have a section about border states?
I also note that New Castle County contains over 500,000 people, more than the less than 200,000 in Kent County & less than 200,000 in Sussex County combined, so NCC has the majority of the population in the state. Also, Greater Wilmington is included in the Delaware Valley / Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD MSA / Philadelphia-Reading-Camden, PA-NJ-DE-MD Combined Statistical Area.
As a compromise, I've included both Northeastern and Southern U.S. templates/categories on the bottom of page. I left the lead alone since "Mid-Atlantic" is the most fitting indisputable region to put at the top.--DruidLantern8 (talk) 04:20, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
References
^Boon, John D. (2004). "Tidewater". Secrets of the Tide. Horwood. p. 1. ISBN1-904275-17-6. Geographically, Tidewater Virginia and Tidewater Maryland together form a triangle whose base extends from the Chesapeake Bay entrance westward through Hampton Roads and the lowlands south of the James River to Petersburg....
I think that we should edit the population Billune (talk) 16:43, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
Hi Billune, what do you think the population be changed to? What source are you getting your information from? If you could provide a link, that'd be great! Thanks, palindrome§ǝɯoɹpuᴉןɐd 22:38, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
Cite error: There are <ref group=lower-alpha> tags or {{efn}} templates on this page, but the references will not show without a {{reflist|group=lower-alpha}} template or {{notelist}} template (see the help page). Cite error: There are <ref group=nb> tags on this page, but the references will not show without a {{reflist|group=nb}} template (see the help page).
Not done No, actually. Delaware is on a plain, not a plane. General Ization Talk 22:09, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the
Edit request declined
). Most Delawareans would admit that Delaware was one of the Border states (American Civil War). Peaceray (talk) 22:24, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
