Talk:Drew Lewis

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Requested move 4 April 2016 (old)[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn due to below proposal. George Ho (talk) 09:29, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Andrew L. Lewis, Jr. → ? – He must be commonly known as Drew Lewis, isn't he? Otherwise, shall we or shall we not omit the comma, resulting in Andrew L. Lewis Jr.? George Ho (talk) 03:37, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment – There's clearly no need for a comma, per WP:JR. So why not propose Drew Lewis as the target if you've decided that's more common? Dicklyon (talk) 04:02, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Would you stop misinterpreting it and force Americans to scrap the comma out? I see you still abhor the presence of commas before Jr. or Sr. I could not revert your damages; instead, I went to WP:RM/TR to have an admin fix your mess. Also, your actions have gotten out of hand. Therefore, I shall report you to ANI. --George Ho (talk) 05:02, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

George, I have no particular antipathy toward such commas, and do use them myself sometimes in my own writing. I'm just doing some routine wiki-gnoming, like I do with caps and dashes and trademark and composition styling, and other commas, and such. There was a recent RFC, still at WP:VPP, that changed WP:JR to clearly prefer omitting the commas, so I've been moving a few things in that direction. As far as I know, there is no American vs other issue here. Dicklyon (talk) 06:17, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 04 April 2016[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. Consensus is for the omission of the comma.(non-admin closure) Niceguyedc ^{Go Huskies!} 04:43, 13 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Andrew L. Lewis Jr. → Andrew L. Lewis, Jr. – Dicklyon keeps omitting commas just because he found them unnecessary punctuations preceding a suffix. I started the RM, but he still omits it. – George Ho (talk) 04:51, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 08:53, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@George Ho and Dicklyon: Not undiscussed. See the RFC on WP:VPP that led to WP:JR, and further discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Biographies#Implementing_the_.22Jr..22_RfC. You have not even said why you would put a comma into this one. Dicklyon (talk) 05:14, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(See also discussion at Talk:Robert Downey Jr.#Requested move 04 April 2016. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 08:56, 4 April 2016 (UTC))[reply]

Oppose – George knows of the RFC that led to the revision of WP:JR to state, Omission of the comma before Jr./Jr/Jnr or Sr./Sr/Snr is preferred. The comma can be used where a living subject's own preference or its use in current sources is clear and consistent. But has given no argument about the recently living subject's or his biographers' preferences. Linked references that have the Jr. all omit commas, including the Washington Post obituary, NYT obituary, and Reagan page. Same with most books. So it's hard to see why George chooses this guy as a vehible for challenging the application of WP:JR. Dicklyon (talk) 14:59, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I found other sources using the comma: book 1, directory, book 3, book 4, book 5, book 6, book 7, book 8, Reagan Library. Alternatively, other sources use "Drew Lewis": book 1, book 2, magazine, book 3, book 4, book 5, National Journal, book 6. George Ho (talk) 19:16, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

So? All that demonstrates is that usage is mixed (in which case we default to no comma), and that older sources used the comma a lot and newer ones do not, which was half of the entire point of the RfC and the guideline change. The other half was that this shift in usage has happened across all dialects (including American). Your comment in your original RM above, "Would you stop misinterpreting [MOS:JR] and force Americans to scrap the comma out?", show why this RM and your related ones at some other "Jr." articles are wrong. As amply proven with sources at the RfC this is not a WP:ENGVAR matter at all, and is you who are misinterpreting MOS:JR. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼ 05:35, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per MOS:JR. There is no evidence that that current sources overwhelmingly prefer the comma-laden spelling. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼ 23:04, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as any comma is not reflected in prosody (linguistics), and additionally calls for a closing comma per WP:Copyedit#Punctuation. (If you ask me, the full stop/period can be dropped too.) HandsomeFella (talk) 09:35, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose—see SMcClandish's reasoning, to start with. Tony (talk) 12:38, 12 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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