Talk:Dwayne Johnson/Archive 2

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The Rock's Real Name

His father's real last name is Bowles according to this very site and other multiple sources. Seen in this clip, when only three years old, his father calls him Dewey. He also tells Mick Foley's family in Beyond the Mat that it is his first name. He also mentions this full name in his autobiography. His birth name is Dwayne Johnson seeing as father changed his name after he left Canada. (75.161.166.142 (talk) 06:12, 25 December 2007 (UTC))

Grey Lynn

Whoever the hell has been adding Grey Lynn, New Zealand, as a place where Rock lived ought to cite where they did get that information, please! Eaglestorm (talk) 02:39, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

His SNL appearances

If his TV appearance are listed under his filmography (That 70's Show, Hanna Montana, etc.) shouldnt his SNL appearances be on there too?? I'd add them but I dont know the dates. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.84.243.149 (talk) 00:45, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Friday Night With Jonathan Ross and Soccer AM

Dwayne appeared on the popular UK Saturday Morning show Soccer AM, on the 1st Of March and he also appeared on the 31st Of Febuary edition of the incredibly popular show 'Friday Night With Jonathan Ross' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.20.200.196 (talk) 20:20, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Return

There are rumours circulating that the Rock will make an appearance around WrestleMania XXIV and probably do some promos, as he will be inducting his father into the WWE Hall of Fame. GuffasBorgz7 (talk) 11:15, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

That's crystal-balling as far as Wikipedia is concerned. If anyone's thinking of putting these on the main page...Don't. Countless edits of that nature have been reverted. --Eaglestorm (talk) 11:26, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Actually, The Rock could return to the WWE in 2008. Vince McMahon is scheduled to make an appearance on the Hollywood Walk of Fame on Friday March 14, 2008. That would be a Perfect way for The Rock to start a feud with him since The Rock has more film credits than Vince.96.3.72.93 (talk) 22:35, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

How could Rock deliver a speech at the Republican National Convention in 2002, when there wasn't one in that year? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.25.48.84 (talk) 00:42, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Shoulderbreaker and Diving Crossbody

Anyone who actually watched the WWF before 1998 knows Rocky used these as finishers in his early days. Give your comments, since someone who is very misinformed reverted these additions with the strange comment of "its not his moves." Okay... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Max85 (talk • contribs) 07:49, 4 March 2008

Sure didJoe ferst (talk) 00:10, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I confirm. Hell, he even used a fisherman suplex back then too. See The Rock: The Most Electrifying Man In Sport Entertainment. ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② talk 14:39, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Pre-GA review

I have been asked to look over this article before it is nominated for a Good Article review. I have looked it over, and a few things stand out that should be addressed:

This isn't a complete list, but taking care of these would put the article very close to GA level. Some thorough copyediting (preferably by editors from multiple projects) would also be a great idea. Because there is so much information about the subject, this article will need quite a bit of work before being nominated. It would be worthwhile, though, as this article undoubtedly receives a lot of traffic. GaryColemanFan (talk) 20:57, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I hope you don't mind, but I'm moving all these points into a to do list to put at the top of the page. That way it doesn't get lost in the shuffle. Nikki311 00:10, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Sounds like a good idea. Thanks. GaryColemanFan (talk) 01:53, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

The Name Issue Again

This page should be under Dwayne Johnson...the arguments below in favour of keeping it as the Rock are based on him being better known by this name however many other wrestlers such as Adam Copeland have their pages under their real name instead of their stage name. 99.241.48.112 (talk) 00:50, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. - -[The Spooky One] | [t c r] 22:56, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

return

i read he was returning true false please keep looking provide source hedre for me 2 read —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.141.133.48 (talk) 20:41, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

This is a RUMOR. Things like this don't belong in talk pages, Geesh! This is how vandals get ideas. BTW, wrestling web sites are not considered valid sources, those websites dispel more rumors than a group of middle aged women at a party! Cheers! -- KBW1 16:48, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

The Rock Says...

Why is there no mention of the Rocks book? It was called the Rock says and made the top sellers list.LifeStroke420 (talk) 05:43, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

"Insulted fellow superstars"?

In the section where it mentions Rock's return at the Hall Of Fame, it says he "insulted superstars such as...".

Could we not change that to "jokingly insulted" or something similar, as "insulted" sounds like he was legitimately insulting them, which he wasn't obviously.WilkoDCFC (talk) 19:45, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

the game plan

in the game plan all his tattoos where covered up and not seeably should this be menstions in the rocks articial or the game plans artical forgive me for still calling him the rock but hes mostly known by that also i read a few days ago he was returning and going to be wwe champion was that true but removed as telling the future stuff and wikipedia not news site thanks KCDavis (talk) 12:39, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Two errors I noticed

One, when it says he took off in 2001 in the kayfabe suspension to film The Mummy Returns, he was actually filming The Scorpion King. The Mummy Returns came out around the same time as WM17, and he filmed that in 2000, shortly after winning the WWF Championship.

Also, in the 'sporadic appearances' section, he defended Mick Foley from La Resistance BEFORE WMXX, not after. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jeffroper (talk • contribs) 09:31, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Just noticed a possible error that you may want to know about, according to http://www.100megsfree4.com/wiawrestling/pages/pwi/pwi50000.htm the rock was #2 in the PWI 500 in 2000 but it says 2002 in the article, the year in which this site says he was #9 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.197.153.8 (talk) 13:27, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

 Done ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 17:02, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Football

Dwayne Johnson was not an offensive lineman; he was a defensive lineman. He stated on "The Best Damn Sports Show Period," that he was the only person to sack Charlie Ward during the 1993 season. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.203.134.243 (talk) 23:00, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

black is not a country...

"He is of half black, half Samoan heritage (his mother is Samoan and his father is African-Canadian)."

that sentence suggests that black is a country,or Samoan - a race. Half Samoan, half African-Canadian would be more than enough, otherwise it sounds like an uneducated 10-year-old wrote it.

domi —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.92.80.187 (talk) 22:51, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Seems like semantics to me. ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② talk 19:10, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

bisexual

On the June 18 2008 episiode of the tonight show with jay leno, he made a failed attempt to joke about his bisexuality while speaking about bipolars. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.48.164.121 (talk) 04:15, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Source? I can't find any record of this nor do I have recollection of Dwayne saying this. And yes, I did see the episode. ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② talk 19:09, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

All about the name

name change

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Why is this article still named The Rock? He is done with wrestling. He was going by Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson for a while and his last movie he dropped The Rock completely.68.166.37.220 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 22:03, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree he's really trying to move away from being just the Rock at the oscars he was introduced as Dwayne Johnson, I think it should be changed to Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson or maybe just Dwayne Johnson Ipunknown (talk) 03:17, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

He is now known professionally as Dwayne Johnson. That's what it should be. Mshake3 (talk) 03:22, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

See WP:COMMONNAME. He became notable and is still best known as The Rock, as still uses that too (although usually as Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson). So the current name is fine. TJ Spyke 03:24, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
No, he's not. He's best known as Dwayne Johnson, actor. Mshake3 (talk) 04:05, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
I get that within the wrestling fan base he is still best known as the rock but to the general public, like the millions of people who watch the oscars or go see family comedys he's best known as Dwayne "the Rock" johnson or just Dwayne Johnson, plus the rock is really just a character he played and the article is about the actual person Ipunknown (talk) 03:32, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Hmmm, you are saying the answer yourself, "Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson", so he still uses the Rock name, making The Rock name an allias that he is best known as. It does not matter whether he is best known as The Rock only by wrestling fans (even though that's a lie, he has starred in many movies under that name) WP:COMMONNAME says that the article is to be by what they are best known as, he has been best known as the Rock from the 90s up to today. TrUCo9311 03:38, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm new to wikipedia so I'm not gonna push this but it just seems weird that a page that extensively covers the real life of Dwayne Johnson would use the name of his most famous character as its title, i get it for other wrestlers where they're real life actions can be limited to a single paragraph under the heading "personal life", but it just seems like calling him the Rock is like placing the page for say Sean Connery under James Bond Ipunknown (talk) 03:44, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Since he's no longer wrestling, and it's clear he's starting to distance himself from his ring name, the page name should be changed to just Dwayne Johnson. Many wrestlers' (active and inactive) pages are under their real names, and he was identified as such at the Oscars. Beemer69 03:48, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Well thats hard to challenge and I would have to agree with you Beemer but Johnson still makes promo appearances for WWE under his ring name, so?...--TrUCo9311 03:50, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Either way, the page name should not be changed to Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, simply because it's too verbose. --Beemer69 03:58, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
it makes sense for him to appear on WWE as the Rock since thats the character he portrays on WWE programming but its important to note that the Rock is just a character and not the real Dwayne Johnson thus a page about Dwayne Johnson shouldnt be called The Rock Ipunknown (talk) 04:02, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Well its hard to argue with that..TrUCo9311 04:10, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Maybe even something along the lines of two seperate pages one for the Rock as a WWE character and another for Dwayne Johnson the actor, similar to what is done with other famous tv characters and their portrayers (i.e. Fraser and Kelsey Grammar) Ipunknown (talk) 04:18, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

That works for them, but not for professional wrestlers. If we are to rename the article go with Dwayne Johnson, and thats it. eventually, Stone Cold Steve Austin's article will be renames to his real name.TrUCo9311 04:21, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
yeah your right, I have a hard time picturing steve austin's page being titled steve williams though but im sure 2 years ago i would've been against calling the rock, Dwayne Johnson Ipunknown (talk) 04:25, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, renaming Austin's page "Steve Williams (wrestler)" would be pretty sticky itself, because there's already a wrestler with that name (Dr. Death Steve Williams), but I digress. Two pages for Johnson aren't necessary, especially since the different angles he took part in while with the WWE already have their own pages. Therefore, to have separate pages for Johnson and The Rock would be overkill. Rename the page Dwayne Johnson, but the page content stays the same. Beemer69 05:16, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
Just posting to let you know that Steve did legally change his name to Steve Austin. Lex T/C Guest Book 06:16, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
This is the first i've heard of that, you have a source for that claim? TJ Spyke 01:53, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm for a name change. He's been trying to move away from being known simply as the Rock. --Endless Dan 17:09, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Actually it has to do with legality. WWE owns the name The Rock, and when its a WWE Film he goes by "The Rock" and when the studio pays WWE a licensing film, they let him go by Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, but some studios feel they dont need to pay WWE as hes known well enough. That being said, I think he is known well enough by his real name. LessThanClippers 19:44, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't matter if he is trying to move away from the name The Rock. He is best known under that name. Ask anybody about Dwayne Johnson, and if they recognize the name, the first response they say would probably be, "Oh, you mean the Rock?" It is what he is most known for, so it should stay. Kris (talk) 22:07, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
This is a strong argument going on here, as it could go either way. Renaming it to Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, would be like someone said above "sticky", also Dan, just because you support Johnson for trying to move away from The Rock name isn't a strong argument. I say we give him more time to make more appearances else where then the WWE, I say give him till the next movie which will be released sometime this year, and if he doesn't use The Rock name from now till then (except for in WWE) then we should rename it, but 2-4 appearances under Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, or simply Dwayne Johnson isn't really notable, I say give it time for now.TrUCo9311 22:32, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
It was only within the last year that he just started using "Dwayne Johnson" only, I think it will be a long time before he is better known as that instead of The Rock (especially since none of his films have been blockbusters or Academy Award winning films, wheras he was watched by millions of people every week in wrestling and was one of the top merchandise sellers). TJ Spyke 01:53, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Amen TJ.TrUCo9311 01:56, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Truco, my brief reasoning should not discount my support for a move. I agree with many of the points made in favor of a name change and didn't want to rehash the same old arguement. As for your last statement, I disagree with giving it more time for now. He has been out of the WWF for a few years now and has been moving further away from being 'just the Rock' as demonstrated by his movie billings as 'Dwayne Johnson' or 'Dwayne "the Rock" Johnson'.
TJ - he was refered to as just 'Dwayne Johnson' at the Oscars. The Rock nickname was not mentioned. Also I disagree with your pov that none of his movies have been blockbusters. The Game Plan (film) made over $100 million dollars just in the theatres. This does not include DVD sales (which was the #1 DVD for 2 weeks upon release). But that's just one movie. In comparison, as far I know no WWE event (with or without the Rock) has ever banked $100 mill (including gate & tv revenue). If you review the WrestleMania X-Seven article, which had one of the Rock's biggest matches ever, the gate at the event was meerly $3.5 million... for "a record-breaking event".
Also, lets not cloud WP:PW's collective perspective on pro wrestling as a whole. Movie stars and Hollywood films are inarguably a much, much, much bigger form of entertainment then professional wrestling is. His exposure in the last year (appearing on day-time day time talk shows, the Oscars, late night shows) reaches a much larger and broader audience then even his pinnacle with the WWF. --Endless Dan 17:37, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Amen Dan. Ipunknown (talk) 19:26, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
Honstly, "The Rock" is nothing more than a nickname now. Mshake3 (talk) 18:39, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Weak oppose. Oppose would be stronger if the page was just "The Rock". Looking at his movie career at Box Office Mojo[1] He has made $400 million in grosses in his career as a star. In 5 of his 8 movies including The Scorpion King ($91m, his biggest hit) he was billed as "The Rock". Even in Game Plan ($90m, his second biggest hit) he was "Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson" so he is still trading off his fame as that persona. Also billed as "The Rock" in The Mummy Returns which was way bigger than any of his starring vehicles ($202m). At IMDb[2] he is billed as The Rock for his wrestling stuff as recently as 2007. Therefore has not (yet?) made the same impact as Dwayne Johnson. Songs of ts steiner (talk) 19:40, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

My whole spin on this is that he decided he wanted to be known as his real name Dwayne Johnson rather than the Rock. In my opinion he should have kept the name The Rock but he didn't. That's why I think we should go by what he's going by. The same thing for puffy/p. diddy/diddy. It pisses me off that he keeps changing his name, but thats his decision and we can't keep calling him puffy.68.166.37.220 (talk) 07:24, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

  • Oppose - until the widespread media and fans stop calling him the Rock in favour of Dwayne Johnson, this page should remain where it is (WP:Use common name). Bssc81 (talk) 20:33, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

The Rock was a DEFENSIVE lineman at U of Miami and in the CFL - Not an OFFENSIVE lineman... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.114.58.46 (talk) 18:45, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Should there be a new discussion on moving this to just Dwayne Johnson, since that's how he's now going to be billed in the movies, starting with Get Smart? 76.226.140.56 (talk) 05:27, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

name

I don't care about the issues up above with that. This article should be named DWAYNE JOHNSON due to the fact of him denouncing his name and not wanting to use it anymore and officially retiring from wrestling. That was his name there. Not in HOLLYWOOD. He is now Dwayne Johnson, and I don't think that The Rock (entertainer) should be the title of the page. It should be his real name.69.61.221.25 (talk) 02:56, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Consensus is to keep the article here, and read WP:COMMONNAME. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 11:38, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
Actually, there is no consensus. Read the conversation above, it was closed with no resolution. Saying he should the article should stay as such because of WP:COMMONNAME is lazy and does not demonstrate why the name should remain. --Endless Dan 20:34, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

he wishs to be know as dyawn cuz young people dont know him as rock so its confusing for then i read this on internet 172.141.44.233 (talk) 13:53, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

If that's the case, I support moving this article to Dyawn. GaryColemanFan (talk) 23:30, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

I think the article should be renamed Dwayne Johnson in that he is no longer being billed as The Rock. If Booker T's article can be name Booker Huffman, the Rock's can be named Dwayne Johnson.SChaos1701 (talk) 20:17, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Booker T's article is called Booker Huffman because of the Booker T disambiguation page. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 20:19, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, and there's a The Rock disambiguation page so that argument doesn't really stand.SChaos1701 (talk) 21:52, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
  • this page needs to be moved to either Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson or Dwayne Johnson because that's his legal name. - -[The Spooky One] | [t c r] 22:52, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Well, The Undertaker isn't Mark Calaway's legal name... ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 23:01, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Join in the discussion here. Your arguments will be seen by more people. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 23:00, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

He's been credited in his last few movies as Dwayne Johnson. He is also being credited in Get Smart as Dwayne Johnson. Even at his last WWE appearance they called him Dwayne Johnson.68.164.85.143 (talk) 21:41, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Name Part 2

Is his legal last name Johnson? His fathers real last name is apparently Bowles. Inhumer (talk) 12:11, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

The Rock(entertainer?)

I have a problem with The Rock(entertainer). What in the world is an entertainer? It should be actor since he is no longer wrestling. If he were acting and wrestling at the same time he might concievably be an entertainer but acting is all he is doing at this point. I guess the whole point is moot since I'd rather have the article be changed to Dwayne Johnson and leave it at that.Drumac (talk) 22:29, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

This is under discussion. See here. ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② talk 19:11, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Confirmed drop of "The Rock"

Dwayne Johnson confirmed tonight on The Tonight Show that he has dropped "The Rock" and is now just going by "Dwayne Johnson". Just thought you people should know. Save-Me-Oprah(talk) 04:08, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

The Rock (entertainer)

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was

Move to Dwayne Johnson. He's no longer just, "The Rock". In his last several films, he was billed as only Dwayne Johnson. I can't believe the article title is actually The Rock (entertainer). This has been discussed before here, but closed with no apparent conclusion. I make a better case on there, but please read all opinions. WP:COMMONNAME isn't an acceptable rebuttal as I can and did made a strong case that Dwayne Johnson would fit that bill.

  • Oppose MATTtalk 14:56, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Oppose - He is best known as The Rock. -- iMatthew T.C. 19:21, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Support "Dwayne Johnson" Article in a local newspaper stated "Dwayne Johnson (formerly known as "The Rock")." -- iMatthew T.C. 23:48, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Support he is being advertised in Get Smart as DJ. Darrenhusted (talk) 08:25, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete Rather than allowing this to come up time and time again, I vote that we just get rid of the article. If we must keep it, the debate over the article title should not take place here. It should take place on the article talk page, and WikiProject:Films should be informed about the discussion. GaryColemanFan (talk) 22:35, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Support- He even said in a recent interview that his is no longer the Rock.SChaos1701 (talk) 20:14, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
If Booker T's article can be named Booker Huffman, the Rock's can be named Dwayne Johnson.SChaos1701 (talk) 20:20, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Booker Huffman's article is so named to avoid the Booker T disambiguation page. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 21:00, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Oppose Naming conventions go by the most commonly used term/name the thing/person is recognized by. His recent 'change' isn't as recognizable as his tenure as The Rock in wrestling or while he was The Rock in the movie industry. — Κaiba 20:57, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Oppose - I still think that he is best known as "The Rock". His wrestling tenure garnered him a lot more fame than his movie career so far. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 20:59, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Very, Very, Very, Strong Support as per above supporters and most of the opposers aren't giving any reason. His legal name is Dwayne Johnson, so the article should be named Dwayne Johnson. If not moved to Dwayne Johnson, then article should be moved to Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson, because that basically has both titles, so everyone can be happy. - -[The Spooky One] | [t c r] 23:05, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
It's not about making people happy or about legal names, its about naming the articles by which the object or person is most recognized by, which follows with Wikipedia's naming conventions on subjects like this. He is not as notable as Dwayne Johnson as he is the The Rock in wrestling and The Rock who starred in movies, unless you can refute that he is somehow. — Κaiba 23:12, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Since i doubt anyone will prove beyond doubt which name is more known, i think it should be named to Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson. Because outside of the Wrestling world he's known as Dwayne "The Rock" johnson. Not just Dwayne Johnson as much. - -[The Spooky One] | [t c r] 21:21, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Re: Kaiba.. His latest movies do not advertise him as The Rock; Here and here.--Endless Dan 13:59, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
You missed the point, his name 'The Rock' is more notable and the most recognizable out of the two, we do not change article names on Wikipedia on the basis of a minor thing like what he was advertised most currently as. — Κaiba 15:59, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
I didn't miss the point. He was the Rock in the WWF. His movie career provides him much greater exposure then his wrestling career. --Endless Dan 17:32, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Wrestling gave him the acting career and I highly doubt you could have any credibility to back up the claim of him being 'more popular' or having 'more exposure' during either stint. And BTW, he wasn't called Dwayne Johnson all during his acting career either, he was credited as being The Rock for some of the films or his name with the The Rock somewhere in the name. — Κaiba 19:53, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Okay, what documentation do you have that supports your claim that "The Rock" best satisfies WP:COMMONNAME? Have you supplied any supporting evidence that WP:COMMONNAME applies to your arguement? Google searches are rendered invalid because searching for the term "rock" will result in millions of pages for actual stones. Now, movies and Hollywood (and college football) is infinitely more popular then wrestling. This is indisputable. Wrestling may be popular within this circle, but doesn't even get a whiff of the pop culture relevance that movies and movies stars have. Also, re: your last point - he hasn't been called Dwayne Johnson all during his acting career. No one has made that claim. But, he has been using his real name for over 3 years and has dropped "the Rock" from his stage name in the last 2 years. Also, here is your documentation you requested. This a comment I made from the name change discussion on his talk page:

I disagree with your pov that none of his movies have been blockbusters. The Game Plan (film) made over $100 million dollars just in the theatres. This does not include DVD sales (which was the #1 DVD for 2 weeks upon release). But that's just one movie. In comparison, as far I know no WWE event (with or without the Rock) has ever banked $100 mill (including gate & tv revenue). If you review the WrestleMania X-Seven article, which had one of the Rock's biggest matches ever, the gate at the event was meerly $3.5 million... for "a record-breaking event".

This would support the notion that he is best known as Dwayne Johnson or Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson over simply "The Rock" as this shows movies reach a far greater audience. I'm not trying to discredit all notability of the stand-alone name "The Rock", but Dwayne Johnson seems far more applicable at this time. Also, as noted below, I think the best article name would be Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson --Endless Dan 20:41, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
I don't think you have conclusively proven that movies reach a greater audience. For example, what would the response be if you asked 10 people on the street about Hulk Hogan's profession? I'm sure the vast majority would identify him as a wrestler. Likewise for countless others...Roddy Piper and Andre The Giant, for example. This is also the case for more recent wrestlers--Steve Austin or John Cena, for example. The Marine did $18 million at the box office, which is over 5 times what WrestleMania X-Seven did. Does that mean that John Cena is primarily an actor? GaryColemanFan (talk) 00:42, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

That's retarded. No conclusive evidence that movies are bigger then wrestling?? C'mon. It's common sense. If Hulk Hogan is wrestling's biggest star, I'm sure we can make a laundry list of much more famous actors. There is a reason why Tom Cruise gets paid 30 million dollars a film and Hogan is doing a reality show on CMT.--Endless Dan 12:17, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

And I'm sure we could also come up with a list of actors who make more money than Hulk Hogan these days despite having less name recognition (and yes, the list would include many "A-list" stars). GaryColemanFan (talk) 13:51, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Okay. So let's make sure we're on the same page - you are contending wrestling is of equal relevance to Hollywood in terms of popular culture? --Endless Dan 14:09, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
My apologies. I hadn't realized that I had signed a contract for a Dutchess of Queensbury Rules match. I am contending that some people are better known as wrestlers than as actors. You are using irrelevant statistics to prove something almost completely unrelated. I am stating that those statistics are irrelevant and prove something almost completely unrelated. He is well-known by both names, but neither side has been proven conclusively. I believe that, in order to move a page, there has to be a valid reason and consensus for the move. Since no valid reason has been proven and consensus does not seem to exist, I believe the page should remain where it is. GaryColemanFan (talk) 16:13, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Apology accepted. But before you twisted my words, the reason I was pointing out Dwayne Johnson's movie success was to show that Hollywood movies are of more importance and influence then wrestling. Ie, they reach a bigger audience. So more people are now exposed to the name he uses for his films - Dwayne Johnson. And there is a valid reason to move his page, ya chuckle head. It's so we can avoid a ambiguous article title such as "The Rock (wrestler)". Because being such a high ranking member of the omnipotent WP:PW, you probably already know there have been at least two other wrestlers who have used the name "The Rock", right? And given that Johnson has reached notoriety using both names, wouldn't Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson make the most sense? It's absolutely ridiculous that he gets no credit from you for being in a movies that have grossed over a 100 mill using only his legal name. --Endless Dan 16:09, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Oppose per the reasons I have mentioned above. It hasn't been proven that he is better known by a different name, so there is no reason to move it. GaryColemanFan (talk) 22:54, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Oh, wait, I got a poll of 100 random people surveyed over what is the most widely known name. Can you reach into my ass and get it for me? Thanks! --Endless Dan 16:09, 6 June 2008 (UTC)


EndlessDan, I suggest you not have any more outbursts of incivility and/or personal attacks like that again, or I will report it to the appropriate noticeboard. Your comment above is highly inappropriate and does not contribute anything to this discussion. — Moe ε 07:03, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Support. Not only because he hasn't been going by The Rock for a while, but also because it does away with parenthetical disambiguation in the title, which we should avoid as much as reasonably possible. — Gwalla | Talk 20:17, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Support He is not using the name "The Rock" anymore. Not that he's not ashamed with his wrestling past, but wrestling does have a negative stigma in the media (see Chris Benoit), and wanting to use his real name in movies makes perfect sense. Of course, when he does appear on WWE television for special events like WrestleMania, he'll still be the Rock. He will always be The Rock as far as wrestling fans are concerned. He's using his real name more-or-less to appeal to non-wrestling fans who hate wrestling due to the negative stigma.Jgera5 (talk) 12:29, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Support His current 'stage name' is Dwayne Johnson. The title of the current article is quite demeaning and patronizing of the man. Wikipedia archives facts, not popular opinion. If Hulk Hogan was known unofficially as The Yellow Moustache, Wikipedia would still call him Hulk Hogan. Dwayne Johnson's professional name is Dwayne Johnson, no matter how many wrestling fans persist in calling him The Rock. 86.152.175.230 (talk) 15:57, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Support. At this point, Dwayne Johnson's article probably shouldn't even come under the jurisdiction of the Wrestling Project. The man is more than just a wrestler, these days. To say he's gained his most noteriety as a wrestler probably isn't even correct anymore, as he's now - among other things - a Disney movie star. As mentioned, Booker T's page is listed at another name to avoid a disambiguation. As a quick search would show, "The Rock" is a far more commonly used title. Obligatoryhandle (talk) 02:59, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Oppose He is still not best known by that and it will take some time and more proof until he is. --Maestro25 (talk) 06:50, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Support I support the change, though if a solution cannot be reached, I support the suggested Compromise seen below. ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② talk 19:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Added notes to consider
**I've also noticed that his imdB profile notes him under his given name.
**"The Rock" is a character promoted by the World Wrestling Federation, and subsequently, World Wrestling Entertainment. Dwayne Johnson is a person whom we are noting. I suppose the question one must ask themselves is are we doing a biography for a character or a person.
**His movies have begun crediting him as Dwayne Johnson.
**As per the cover of this magazine and this article, in which he is cited as "Dwayne Johnson", not "The Rock".
**Per his own wishes in which he clearly states he wants to move away from being known as The Rock. And quote, "I'm aware of everything that comes with that nickname, and I just think there's a lot more you can do without it...But I wanted it to happen naturally, from 'The Rock' to Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson to 'Dwayne Johnson'" (See Above Cited Article For The Source of this quote)[1].
That's it. ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② talk 20:09, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Support - 'Dwayne Johnson' is the name he goes by these days, and even if he might be better known as 'The Rock', it would be inaccurate to keep his page under that title. 'The Rock' is the name of a wrestling character; 'Dwayne Johnson' is the name of the actor, who the article is actually about. Terraxos (talk) 16:40, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Compromise

Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson seems like the best compromise and the most acceptable fit as it would encompass both names. He hasn't been billed as simply The Rock in his movies in quite some time, but he has used and has been refered to Dwayne "the Rock" Johnson for media appearances and some of his movies (although, his latest movies he has dropped "The Rock" name). For everyone who voted above or who has not yet cast vote, would this satisfactory? This would also eliminate the (entertainer) tag and should end this seemingly never-ending arguement. --Endless Dan 13:53, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

  • Oppose This appears to be a compromise that would please nobody. I can see this title leading to a discussion about 3 weeks down the road about changing it again. GaryColemanFan (talk) 00:44, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Support per EndlessDan--ProtoWolf (talk) 00:57, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
    • So what's it gonna be? This is why this fucking name change comes up so often. Everyone gets lost in crunch time. The majority of people feel a name change is in store, but to what - Dwayne Johnson or Dwayne "the Rock" Johnson? --Endless Dan 00:25, 13 June 2008 (UTC).
    • This isn't about a majority. We don't vote on Wikipedia. 11-8 doesn't seem like a consensus to move anything, especially when you consider that at least two of the editors supporting a move gave reasons that have nothing to do with Wikipedia's naming conventions. At any rate, if it is to be moved, we should keep in mind that we have been moving away from adding nicknames to article titles: Superstar Billy Graham was recently moved to Billy Graham (wrestler) and "Hot Stuff" Eddie Gilbert was just moved to Eddie Gilbert (wrestler). Moving the article to Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson (or is it Dwayne "the Rock" Johnson?...yet another debate that would have to be resolved) obviously wouldn't make either side happy. And it certainly wouldn't make the other projects (who should be involved in this discussion, which is why I mentioned early on that it should be on the article's talk page rather than here) happy. And if he's making a transition to his real name, why would we move the article to the transitional name? That's the only possible way of guaranteeing that a future move will be necessary (assuming we're going to follow the non-reason that "we should name it whatever he wants us to name it for him because he owns the article and so Wikipedia policy means nothing compared to the possibility of offending him by naming his article with the name that made him a millionaire"). GaryColemanFan (talk) 02:17, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
      • Lmao! Well, since the last time the other WP:PW jakes voted, the discussion has progressed. So I wouldn't mind having some of those other said members contributing to the discussion and, hopefully, its conclusion. I just really hope their responses won't be as amusingly weak as your last one, Coleman. --Endless Dan 03:13, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
        • If I have spoken wrongly, testify to the wrong. GaryColemanFan (talk) 03:41, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
          • As I said, I feel it should be moved to "Dwayne Johnson" as per his own wishes. See my earlier post under the main discussion (pg up). ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② talk 01:25, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
            • Wikipedia isn't about pleasing the subjects of the articles. Policy dictates that the article should be under the most commonly used name, whether he likes it or not. Please review WP:COMMONNAME. GaryColemanFan (talk) 01:58, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
                • Endlessdan began the discussion by telling people that they were not allowed to make reference to WP:COMMONNAME, despite the fact that it is a widely accepted naming convention. Of course, there is no more basis for such a statement than if a Featured Article reviewer was to tell an editor that they cannot use books sources in which the authors' last names start with the letters M through R. I certainly don't think we should let such a claim direct our discussions. GaryColemanFan (talk) 15:04, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Coleman, I've demonstrated Dwayne Johnson is a viable star grossing over 200 mill in the last 3 years more then he's ever made for or with the WWF. But I keep hearing "Rock" is his common name, but where's the proof? Wraslin is not bigger or more important than Hollywood. WWE is not bigger than Disney films. Not by a mile. We've provided requested links, I've given WP:FILM a heads up, I've even invited other members of this very project to voice there opinions and still nothing. --Endless Dan 18:58, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

  • Support For the following reasons: (1) It cannot be proven that he is known to more people as the Rock than as Dwayne Johnson. A google search will undoubtable bring up more results but that is because it will include all the mentions of his name when he was still called the Rock. All that will prove is he was known by more people as the Rock 5 years ago.
  • (2) In his last few movies he has been credited as Dwayne Johnson only. Before that he was credited as Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson. The media refers to him as Dwayne Johnson. Heck, even in his last WWE appearance (at the WWE hof) he was introduced as Dwayne Johnson. If even the WWE is calling him Dwayne Johnson, how can wikipedia be calling him the Rock?
  • (3) He himself uses the name Dwayne Johnson. Yes I know wikipedia doesn't aim to please the subjects of articles but that fact does add to the entire argument.
  • (4) He has stated multiple times he is retired from wrestling. What that means is he will never concievably use the Rock name again.
  • (5) Other notable information sites such as the Internet Movie Data Base list him as Dwayne Johnson.
  • (6) While other wrestlers' articles may be named after their wrestling names, Dwayne Johnson is the first to establish an actual career outside of wrestling. Also, those wrestlers who have starred in any movies are usually credited by their wrestling names.
  • In conclusion, for all these reasons the name should be changed to Dwayne Johnson. The opposition's only argument is that The Rock is a more common name than Dwayne Johnson. While it may be more common to wrestling fans, it is not more common to blockbuster movie audiences, who total a far greater number. So this cannot be proven. What can be proven is that he is being credited as Dwayne Johnson in his movies and he is called Dwayne Johnson in public appearances. Change the name and end this argument. I have spoken - Drumac (talk) 22:22, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
    • Side note, just pointing out he will be appearing on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno. Promotions are featuring him as "Dwayne Johnson". ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② talk 16:29, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Decision

So are we going to come to a decision in regards to this situation or are we just gonna sit on this topic and is it just going to dissapear into the archives of wikipedia as usual? ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② talk 02:34, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Since neither side has conclusively proven a case for their preference, yeah, probably the archive thing. GaryColemanFan (talk) 02:56, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Then I know good and well Wikipedia isn't a democracy but I have seen it solve a problem before. So therefore, let's make it simple. We'll worry about Dwayne Johnson (which I personally believe is more appropriate (see as credited in "Get Smart" and later films) vs Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson later. I call for a vote. No more arguing as it's getting no where. Just a bloody vote to get it overwith. Name change or no name change. No reasons, nothing. Just either say "support" or "don't support", to support a name change or leave the article's name as is, respectively. I believe we can all agree on this. A decision based a vote will bypass all the problems which is holding us up from coming to a consensus. That is the solution I offer. I believe it will render this problem solved. ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② talk 02:23, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
I disagree with you. GaryColemanFan (talk) 02:28, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
Any particular reason? I'm just trying to get a decision reached before this gets archived and goes no where, is forgotten, and we do this again somewhere down the line, repeat. I'll comment once a day to keep this from dissipating into the archives if I must. ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② talk 02:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
If there was consensus, the article would be moved. There is no consensus, so the article shouldn't be moved. Changing the rules to get your way isn't appropriate or acceptable. GaryColemanFan (talk) 05:55, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
Whoever said I was changing the rules to get my way? Far as I can tell, I applied rationale to achieve a conclusion to this debate via an alternative methodology. You attack me for that? That's not right :| . I think it's obvious we will never come to a consensus on either side via the current methodology so why not change it to something which has been successfully applied on Wikipedia in the past and end this? ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② talk 16:08, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Straw Poll

I'm going to put WP:IAR into play here, as I believe a straw poll is the best option right now. I'll leave the poll open for one week. -- iMatthew T.C. 23:52, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

As I said above, the debate has been open for quite a while and is pretty close to 50-50. That is clearly not a consensus for a change, so the change shouldn't be made. Deciding to ignore the rules because the default is to keep it with a title that you don't like isn't appropriate. Continuing to hold the discussion on this talk page instead of the article's talk page is also unacceptable. In summary, there is no consensus to move, so let it go. GaryColemanFan (talk) 01:53, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
The first move (to Dwayne Johnson) was 11 for, 7 against. That's not 50-50. The second move (to Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson) was 4 for and 1 against, with one voter voting in both (that is Oppose on the first and Support on the second), no clear consensus. We have 22 editors with 11 for Dwayne Johnson, 4 for Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson and 7 for no change. So I second iMatthew's straw poll to sort this out. Darrenhusted (talk)
Those numbers are only accurate if you count editors who gave reasons completely unrelated to Wikipedia guidelines. If you take out the "Dwayne would be offended, so we need to change it" votes, it's pretty much 50-50. Remember, this sort of discussion is about debating real reasons for moving or not moving. If people don't give relevant reasons, it's no different from a vote, so less weight is given to their opinions. GaryColemanFan (talk) 14:05, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
I support a straw poll. I've already laid out why above. ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② talk 13:15, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

It's been a full week. Can we call this a wrap? --Endless Dan 12:51, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

We can definitely close the vote. Of course, it hasn't proven anything, since it violates Wikipedia policy guidelines. A discussion was held, in which there was no consensus to move the article. Regardless of what you call the vote, it's still a vote. Clearly, people who participated in the discussion chose not to dignify the vote with a response. All things considered, a vote that violates policy guidelines, boycotted because it violates policy guidelines, held on the wrong page despite numerous reminders that this isn't the appropriate location for a discussion, and placed at the top of that talk page instead of in a place that most people would actually see it, does not supercede the discussion that took place in which there was an even split and therefore no consensus to change anything. GaryColemanFan (talk) 13:54, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
GCF you haven't voted for anything, you said Delete and then complained about the straw poll. As his name (in mile high letters on film posters around the world at this moment) is Dwayne Johnson I can't see how calling an article about a man born Dwayne Johnson being called Dwayne Johnson is against policy? Especially not when a key part of IAR is that it is best to ignore them when it stops the project from making improvements. Darrenhusted (talk) 14:18, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Of course I haven't voted. Wikipedia policy guidelines specifically state that voting shouldn't be used in place of discussion. That's the policy guideline that I was talking about. IAR should be invoked when it prevents editors from making improvements, but that's very different from editors wanting to ignore the rules because they don't like the outcome of a discussion about something as banal as changing the name of an article. Furthermore, please remember that "current" name and "most common" name are often different. GaryColemanFan (talk) 22:32, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
The discussion was had, and the outcome was basically that there is a difference of opinion. Some stubbornly continue to state that Dwayne Johnson is most commonly known as "The Rock." The Rock was his wrestling character, and is nowadays just a nickname for the man. The man is now a blockbuster movie star. (His latest movie just opened at #1 - again.) He may have been "The Rock" first, but he isn't "The Rock" best anymore. How do we know? Because the wrestling audience is still only a fraction of the general entertainment audience, which movies tap into. "No consensus, therefore no change" is not sufficient reasoning for leaving the page where it is. If it was, a poll with the results we've gotten here should satisfy you. Obligatoryhandle (talk) 23:27, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
The Rock (entertainer)

This vote is for no article name change.

Dwayne Johnson
Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Final heel turn/Christian bit

Right, I've changed this slightly as the way it read suggested that whilst a face, Christian was declared his "favourite wrestler". I watched during that period however, hell I even watched these sketches on youtube again the other day, and know that wasn't the case. There was a brief storyline, during Rock's feud with Goldberg, where Christian (also a heel) became almost like Rock's lackey, ie remember that Raw where Christian was encouraged by Rock over the phone to go call Goldberg out. Then suddenly one night Rock turned face, and Christian told him he'd been "replaced" as the people's champ. Whoever it is, please do not revert this change, or fix the implications of the sentence. The way it was beforehand was misleading. --Simonski (talk) 10:06, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

African-Canadian- African-American

this article refers to him as both African-Canadian and African-American. I think the use of one or another would be better than using both. I'm not arguing if he can be both because I feel you can - African-American referencing North America in general and not just the United States. I just think that one needs to be picked and used through out, to maintain congruency in the page. (Trevorparker (talk) 16:23, 22 July 2008 (UTC))

  1. ^ http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20204672,00.html
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